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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 53 to 77 of 84. Go back in thread:
Posted by SLS on November 28, 2006, at 6:57:16
In reply to Re: It's Treatable. No, it's not., posted by linkadge on November 27, 2006, at 18:36:22
> I don't believe it, give me a million dollers I will proove you're wrong.
No. You give me a million dollars first so that I can prove me right.
:-)
- Scott
Posted by SLS on November 28, 2006, at 7:21:12
In reply to Re: It's Treatable. No, it's not., posted by aeon on November 27, 2006, at 19:10:38
> I know my hope is misfounded. I am not stupid. I truly do not REALLY believe I will ever feel like they do. But what else is there? Depression + Despair = Death. I've been there and had to come back. So I cling to stupid, mindless brainless hope in the face of hopelessness.
I know. That's what it comes down to for me sometimes, too. It is a survival mechanism. It is pretty stupid if you think about it.
I guess I still have hope that one of the drugs of the future might work. I just don't like the fact that they are still a few years away.
http://neurotransmitter.net/newdrugs.html
I am also beginning to think seriously about VNS. I think the fact that dysautonomia is a feature of my illness might indicate its usefulness. I need to research it some more, though.
For bipolar depression, I'm currently taking:
Nardil 60mg
nortriptyline 100mg
Lamictal 150mg
Topamax 100mg
Abilify 10mgHave you tried anything like this yet?
I added the Nardil a few weeks ago.
I have some concerns that I will develop serotonin syndrome from the interaction between Nardil and nortriptyline.
- Scott
Posted by aeon on November 28, 2006, at 7:53:14
In reply to Re: It's Treatable. No, it's not. » aeon, posted by SLS on November 28, 2006, at 7:21:12
>>Have you tried anything like this yet?>>
No, I hope to get Nardil soon, and an ADHD stimulant but noone will prescribe them over here for adults.
So to compensate I'm currently on
Parnate 40mg (60 if I feel real low but then I run out early and have to go to the doc with my tail between my legs and say that I "lost" some again, he won't go higher)
Deprenyl 5-10mg (Don't tell the doc!)
Moclobemide - 150mg if I need an extra boost (which is most days)(again not a word!)
Coffee - 6 cups strong, black no sugar
Cigarettes - Many
Plus a wide and varied assortment of natural supps which changes daily.
These are not making me happy. They allow me to go on, to put food on the table, to appear reasonably OK. Still, I am dead inside most of the time.
Yes, yes I know combining all these MAOI's is DANGEROUS. Do I care? Long past caring... I do what it takes to get me through the day.
I don't have any trouble with sleep... I'm a sleepy depressive so no need for sleeping aids, even though all the above are supposedly stimulating. In fact I have my last coffee before retiring.
aeon
Posted by SLS on November 28, 2006, at 8:25:56
In reply to Re: It's Treatable. No, it's not., posted by aeon on November 28, 2006, at 7:53:14
> >>Have you tried anything like this yet?>>
>
> No, I hope to get Nardil soon, and an ADHD stimulant but noone will prescribe them over here for adults.Maybe Provigil or Adrafinil then?
> So to compensate I'm currently on...
Wow.
> Parnate 40mg (60 if I feel real low but then I run out early and have to go to the doc with my tail between my legs and say that I "lost" some again, he won't go higher)
Damn. 60-80mg is ideal.
> Deprenyl 5-10mg (Don't tell the doc!)
> Moclobemide - 150mg if I need an extra boost (which is most days)(again not a word!)
> Coffee - 6 cups strong, black no sugar
> Cigarettes - Many
> Plus a wide and varied assortment of natural supps which changes daily.
> These are not making me happy.> They allow me to go on, to put food on the table, to appear reasonably OK. Still, I am dead inside most of the time.
I totally understand. Without all of the crap I take, I doubt I could function well enough to maintain my independence.
> Yes, yes I know combining all these MAOI's is DANGEROUS. Do I care? Long past caring... I do what it takes to get me through the day.
Yup.
> I don't have any trouble with sleep...
I hope Nardil treats you differently. Insomnia with an MAOI is a good sign for me. When Nardil worked for me, it made me feel more alive inside than did Parnate. However, it was a combination of Parnate + desipramine that gave me my longest period of remission. Whatever you do, don't mix Parnate with a potent serotonin reuptake inhibitor like an SSRI, Effexor, Cymbalta, or Anafranil. A severe serotonin syndrome reaction is almost guaranteed, and can be dangerous. I once tried to test the waters with Parnate by taking a single 12.5mg dose of Effexor. I experienced delirium and muscle rigidity. Fortunately, it resolved quickly.
- Scott
Posted by Caedmon on November 28, 2006, at 8:36:52
In reply to Re: It's Treatable. No, it's not., posted by SLS on November 28, 2006, at 6:57:16
I do not think that unhappiness and pathological depression are the same thing. Jost has it right IMHO. Unhappiness - even periods of very deep grief, loneliness, isolation - occur in *everyone*. So do periods of "faking it" wrt being in a good mood. That's normal.
This does not mean that they are unhappy with their lives as a whole.
Happiness as an emotion can never be permanently sustained, but a life worth living - and that is *ultimately* satisfying - most certainly can.
- Chris
Posted by linkadge on November 28, 2006, at 8:42:23
In reply to Re: It's Treatable. No, it's not., posted by SLS on November 28, 2006, at 6:57:16
Well, then when the million dollars has lost all meaning for you, you can donate it to me.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on November 28, 2006, at 8:44:54
In reply to Re: It's Treatable. No, it's not., posted by aeon on November 28, 2006, at 7:53:14
Wow, between,
the parnate (MAOa inibition)
the Coffee (MAOa inhibition (beta carbolines))
the cigarettes (MAOa inhibition (beta carbolines))
the moclobemide(MAOa inhibition)
the quercetin (MAOa inhibtion)you ought to have no MAO-A left.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on November 28, 2006, at 18:19:09
In reply to Re: It's Treatable. No, it's not. » aeon, posted by SLS on November 28, 2006, at 7:21:12
Scott what is dysautonomia? Never heard that before. You research so much. And could Serotonin sydrome occurr now after you've been on the combo for a few weeks. Does it build up in your system and then cause it? Love Jan
Posted by Phillipa on November 28, 2006, at 18:21:12
In reply to Re: It's Treatable. No, it's not., posted by aeon on November 28, 2006, at 7:53:14
Please care about you. I don't know you but I care about you. Love Phillipa
Posted by SLS on November 28, 2006, at 19:51:45
In reply to Re: It's Treatable. No, it's not. » SLS, posted by Phillipa on November 28, 2006, at 18:19:09
> Scott what is dysautonomia? Never heard that before. You research so much. And could Serotonin sydrome occurr now after you've been on the combo for a few weeks. Does it build up in your system and then cause it? Love Jan
You ask all the right questions, Jan.
Dysautonomia is an imbalance of the autonomic nervous system. In my case, it is skewed towards the sympathetic: increased heart rate, dry mouth, constipation, blurred vision, mydriasis, dizziness, muscle weakness, breathlessness upon exertion, etc.
It takes at least a week at a particular dosage of an MAOI for MAO inhibition to build up. I have been on 60mg for 6 days. I began feeling weird yesterday with some mental confusion, ataxia, dizziness, muscle stiffness around my torso, and slightly slurred speech. Today has been better, although these things have not completely disappeared. I was concerned that this was the onset of serotonin syndrome. Maybe it wasn't. I remain hopeful.
- Scott
Posted by clint878 on November 28, 2006, at 19:55:16
In reply to Re: It's Treatable. No, it's not. » clint878, posted by linkadge on November 27, 2006, at 18:37:06
I took it for five days, only 200mg/day, beginning on August 5. I discontinued it because I was suffering from memory loss and confusion. On the sixth day, I became completely unable to do anything - with severe panic attacks and depression with so much energy I thought my head would explode. A few days later, I became unable to sleep, for four days straight at a time. One time I was so sleep-deprived I fainted. I would pace for hours and hours. I had no emotions; in fact, I couldn't think clearly enough to even understand the concept of emotions. I nearly committed suicide several times because I couldn't think.
It took eight weeks before a doctor was able to provide me any help with the condition. He said that I have a "minor variant of bipolar disorder" and prescribed Lamictal. Yet, even though all the symptoms above have subsided except for the memory problems, nobody can tell me why I still can't keep any thought in my head for more for three seconds. I have difficulty coming up with the right words, which has caused several incidents where I have appeared extremely stupid. And driving is another story, because I can't process everything that's going on around me in real-time, with the world being out-of-focus. I remember very little of what happened the past three months.
As a result of this, I lost a promotion, and will probably be out of a job within a few months unless someone can help me. Probably, I'll have to throw away my master's degree in computer science and engineering and do some low-paying labor or secretarial work.
This post took me almost an hour to write because I lose my train of thought so frequently and can't come up with the right words.
It's amazing how one day I could be a little depressed, just looking for a minor boost with a low dose of Sam-E, and a week later, become so completely unable to think that it's almost not worth living. I'm not suicidal, so don't call the police, but I still see little good I can do by continuing to exist without a mind.
Posted by Phillipa on November 28, 2006, at 21:07:03
In reply to Re: It's Treatable. No, it's not. » linkadge, posted by clint878 on November 28, 2006, at 19:55:16
Clint this was from Samee something available in a health food store. How horrible. I'm so sorry. Love Phillipa
Posted by SLS on November 28, 2006, at 21:38:23
In reply to Re: It's Treatable. No, it's not. » linkadge, posted by clint878 on November 28, 2006, at 19:55:16
How much Lamictal are you taking?
300mg makes me stupid.
Lamictal is well-known to produce memory problems. However, at higher dosages, I find that it produces more general cognitive impairments as well.
- Scott
Posted by cecilia on November 28, 2006, at 22:22:21
In reply to Re: It's Treatable. No, it's not. » clint878, posted by SLS on November 28, 2006, at 21:38:23
Well, unhappiness and depression may not be the same thing, but I'm not sure what the difference is in the long run, either way you have a miserable life. I suppose I must have unhappiness, not depression, since I've never responded to an AD, but I certainly meet the DSM criteria for depression. I suppose unhappiness can cause depression and depression can cause unhappiness. As for money making you happy, there's certainly nothing I can think of buying that would make me happy. I wasted a lot of money on therapy; I don't know, maybe that made my therapist happy but it certainly did nothing for me. Cecilia
Posted by Phillipa on November 28, 2006, at 22:52:14
In reply to Re: It's Treatable. No, it's not., posted by cecilia on November 28, 2006, at 22:22:21
Well said. Cause now that's the way it is. I'll never feel the way I did years ago. And your right the therapists and pdocs are happy. Wonder if they take meds? Love Phillipa
Posted by stargazer on November 28, 2006, at 23:58:30
In reply to Re: It's Treatable. No, it's not. » clint878, posted by SLS on November 28, 2006, at 21:38:23
Lamictal messed me up too cognitively, I was not able to remember anything for more than a brief moment. I would deny someone saying something to me. They would look at me like I was out of it, which I guess, in retrospect, I was.
I swear it was from the Lamictal, but for some reason my pdoc wanted me to stay on it along with some other meds, can't remember now what they were (memory was deleted). I decided to wean off it and it was the right thing to do.
That's an example of me saying to my pdoc, "it's making me worse" and eventually feeling better and proving I was right.
Currently I'm on Seroquel, which my pdoc also wanted me to stay on at higher doses than I am currently on and I insisted it was making me lightheaded and dizzy and with a past year of falling on my face, I have weaned myself down to 25-50 mg from 200 mg. One day I took only 50 mg during the day instead of at night and I felt almost immediately off balance. These drugs can really mess you up if you don't watch out for yourself, since sometimes you are all alone with your bad self. Sorry for bad joke.
Why do I have to tell my pdoc what is the right thing to do. Sometimes it does get really frustrating but in the long run, he's still better than most docs I hear of.
SG
Posted by Declan on November 29, 2006, at 0:53:35
In reply to Re: It's Treatable. No, it's not., posted by cecilia on November 28, 2006, at 22:22:21
For me unhappiness and depression are indistinguishable, except that unhappiness is a real word and depression is not.
Also unhappiness is a word with historical resonance, whereas someone thought depression up far too recently.If it's happiness/unhappiness, then we should be able to do it for each other. If it's depression, something should work, therapy or drugs.
Bit of a f*ck up.
Posted by cecilia on November 29, 2006, at 1:45:06
In reply to Re: It's Treatable. No, it's not. » cecilia, posted by Phillipa on November 28, 2006, at 22:52:14
Well, I think a lot of the therapists and pdocs are faking it too. Pdocs, in particular, who have easy access to med samples, have a very high suicide rate. Cecilia
Posted by cecilia on November 29, 2006, at 1:58:32
In reply to Re: It's Treatable. No, it's not. » Phillipa, posted by cecilia on November 29, 2006, at 1:45:06
And I'm willing to bet that most of the pdocs who kill themselves have plenty of money. Cecilia
Posted by Declan on November 29, 2006, at 12:33:06
In reply to Re: It's Treatable. No, it's not. » Phillipa, posted by cecilia on November 29, 2006, at 1:45:06
So do anaesthetists, but they have better drugs.
Posted by linkadge on November 29, 2006, at 17:11:13
In reply to Re: It's Treatable. No, it's not. » Phillipa, posted by cecilia on November 29, 2006, at 1:45:06
Exactly, thats because they know the truth. If depression were treatable, and the future were truely hopefull because of the advent of antidepressants, who better to know it than psychiatrists?
So, if they have a high suicide rate what does that say?
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on November 29, 2006, at 17:27:02
In reply to Re: It's Treatable. No, it's not., posted by cecilia on November 28, 2006, at 22:22:21
The notion that true biological depression must respond to the currently available antidepressants is nonsense.
On the other hand, response to an antidepressant is not necessarily indicative of a "biological depression", as we know that these drugs can be abused by people who are not depressed but want a boost.
So, I don't really understand how people have come to the conclusion that their depression is bioloical or nonbiological. Doesn't make sense to me.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on November 29, 2006, at 17:32:37
In reply to Re: It's Treatable. No, it's not. » Phillipa, posted by cecilia on November 29, 2006, at 1:45:06
Cecelia I've heard the highest suicide rate for doctors. I saw one and worked with one who did. Very sad newly married. Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on November 29, 2006, at 17:35:10
In reply to Re: It's Treatable. No, it's not. » cecilia, posted by linkadge on November 29, 2006, at 17:11:13
Link well they do say that docs pick a specialty that either someone in their life suffered from or themselves. And the one I knew it was a running car in the garage he was drunk. Love Phillipa
Posted by SLS on November 29, 2006, at 18:49:59
In reply to Re: It's Treatable. No, it's not., posted by linkadge on November 29, 2006, at 17:27:02
> So, I don't really understand how people have come to the conclusion that their depression is bioloical or nonbiological. Doesn't make sense to me.
Observation and deduction. It is particularly easy to identify the biological nature of depression if you are bipolar and have been an ultra rapid cycler with a regular cycle. This has been my experience. My cycle had a period of 11 days; 8 days of depression followed by 3 days approaching euthymia. This conclusion is further reinforced when drugs produce an antidepressant effect that is an experience dramatically different from that of the depressive state.
Perhaps you are having difficulties understanding things because you are using yourself as a model for all cases of depression. I find it very easy to identify my depression as being 100% biological. Despite this, I continue to pursue avenues of psychological self-improvement - just as anyone without a biological depression might. So, you see, I don't have an emotional attachment to one modality of therapeutics over another. However, I have come to know what's what for me. I am emotionally attached to the most accurate depiction of what I am suffering from so that I have a better chance of getting well.
Perhaps you are confusing unhappiness with clinical major depressive disorder. Perhaps you have a depressive thought style that needs to be addressed through psychotherapy rather than pharmacotherapy. I don't know. If you are not satisfied with drugs, perhaps you should look forward to trying an alternate modality of treatment if you haven't already. Even if you have tried psychotherapy, you might not have been matched up with the right person or the right therapeutic approach.
Since you can't tell what the etiology of your depression is, you might need to leave the door open to psychotherapy.
- Scott
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