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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 65. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Phillipa on February 15, 2007, at 12:45:31
For many many years I've been on combos of meds for sleep doesn't matter how many or how strong but in 4-5hours always wake-up and even a redose of med and can't go back to sleep. When in the cycle is the restorative sleep. I do fall asleep right away. Been on xanax, valium, lunesta, ambien,chloral hydrate, klonopin, and combos of the above. Thanks me again Phillipa ps I think the lack of long sleep is keeping the anxiety alive and has lead to the depression.
Posted by Phillipa on February 15, 2007, at 12:47:44
In reply to Sleep Ridiculous, posted by Phillipa on February 15, 2007, at 12:45:31
Oh forgot seroquel and have asked my husband to hit me with a baseball bat but darn me he won't not that he doesn't want to. Love Phillipa
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on February 15, 2007, at 12:56:05
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous, posted by Phillipa on February 15, 2007, at 12:47:44
PJ, listen, you seem to not be doing as well as you have been.... How's it going with the pdoc? Have you changed meds or something? Whats wrong? Please tell us, we'll try and help you....
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by dbc on February 15, 2007, at 13:00:43
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous, posted by Meri-Tuuli on February 15, 2007, at 12:56:05
Even low doses of remeron will knock out large wild animals. Personally if i *must* go to sleep 15mg of remeron does it every time.
(note if anyones on stimulant meds dont take remeron for this purpose since its effects are anti-histamine in nature)
Posted by Quintal on February 15, 2007, at 13:54:28
In reply to Sleep Ridiculous, posted by Phillipa on February 15, 2007, at 12:45:31
How about Xyrem? If only you could........ it increases time spent in deep sleep - the restorative and refreshing part. I've taken it before (illegally) and I did wake up more refreshed. The problem is it wears off after a few hours so you need multiple doses through the night. You can't help but fall asleep with large enough doses of Xyrem.
Remeron didn't help me sleep much because it caused restless legs. Similar story with Seroquel.
Q
Posted by laima on February 15, 2007, at 16:00:09
In reply to Sleep Ridiculous, posted by Phillipa on February 15, 2007, at 12:45:31
It's the stages 3 and 4 that are considered the deep/restorative stages, and ironically, the ones that benzos and sleep meds diminish. Each night a person goes through the cycles several times, and each cycle becomes deeper as the night goes on: 1, 2, 3, 4- then REM. Then back to 1... So on benzos or sleep meds, the sleeper rushes through 3 and 4, and these stages aren't as long or deep as they are supposed to be- and in some cases they almost disappear. You can't know for sure what's going on without a sleep study though- they can tell by looking at brain waves.There is some description of the sleep cycles on wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SleepThey've also got links to other places for more information. Wikipedia itself doesn't say much of anything specific about mental health and sleep.
> For many many years I've been on combos of meds for sleep doesn't matter how many or how strong but in 4-5hours always wake-up and even a redose of med and can't go back to sleep. When in the cycle is the restorative sleep. I do fall asleep right away. Been on xanax, valium, lunesta, ambien,chloral hydrate, klonopin, and combos of the above. Thanks me again Phillipa ps I think the lack of long sleep is keeping the anxiety alive and has lead to the depression.
Posted by laima on February 15, 2007, at 16:21:35
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous » Phillipa, posted by laima on February 15, 2007, at 16:00:09
Thought I'd add, when I had my sleep studies I was spending long hours asleep- like 9 or even 10- but was still tired all day long, even after starting stimulants. The sleep doctor and the psychiatrist I see now were both certain that this was due to the fact that my studies indicated I spent very, very little time in stage 4, despite all of the hours asleep. The sleep doctor really surprised me by recommending more stimulants by day while cutting down or out on clonazapam. Even recently, my doctor was wanting me to have another sleep study before prescribing any sleep medication, to see where I was at. Now he's especially curious, because I'm not using any sleep meds. Also, I'm using far fewer stimulants than before, and feeling much MUCH more awake by day. But I'd rather not go through the ordeal again.Xyrem sounds intriguing because unlike most other sleep meds, it sounds like it either increases or doesn't affect the deep stages. To bad it doesn't seem to be commonly prescribed.
Posted by saturn on February 15, 2007, at 17:09:44
In reply to Sleep Ridiculous, posted by Phillipa on February 15, 2007, at 12:45:31
Phillipa have you ever seen a sleep specialist?
Posted by Phillipa on February 15, 2007, at 19:23:24
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous » Phillipa, posted by saturn on February 15, 2007, at 17:09:44
No medicaire doesn't cover it. Love Phillipa
Posted by Declan on February 15, 2007, at 19:42:08
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous » saturn, posted by Phillipa on February 15, 2007, at 19:23:24
What I try to do with myself, PJ, is to take the lowest dose of benzo that enables me to function.
At least that way sleep is not more disturbed than it would otherwise be.What else can you do?
Deep restorative sleep is important, and the ageing process seems to work against it.
Withdrawing from benzos would take the rest of your life, wouldn't it (not trying to kill you off)?I also use Chinese herb preparations which are quite mild but probably do not adversely affect sleep in the same way as benzos.
Posted by laima on February 15, 2007, at 21:04:33
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous » Phillipa, posted by Declan on February 15, 2007, at 19:42:08
I read that melatonin may increase deep sleep. I wonder if it is true, and how it combines with benzos?
Posted by Declan on February 15, 2007, at 21:22:53
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous, posted by laima on February 15, 2007, at 21:04:33
Melatonin doesn't increase the time spent in deep sleep with me, FWIW.
Posted by laima on February 15, 2007, at 21:30:50
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous » laima, posted by Declan on February 15, 2007, at 21:22:53
Oh. Haven't tested it myself. What is "FWIW"?
> Melatonin doesn't increase the time spent in deep sleep with me, FWIW.
Posted by Phillipa on February 15, 2007, at 21:39:58
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous » Phillipa, posted by Declan on February 15, 2007, at 19:42:08
Declan geez do we need our canes, crutches, or walkers already? Love Phillipa
Posted by Declan on February 15, 2007, at 21:40:50
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous » Declan, posted by laima on February 15, 2007, at 21:30:50
FWIW means 'for what it's worth'.
Posted by Phillipa on February 15, 2007, at 21:41:45
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous » Declan, posted by laima on February 15, 2007, at 21:30:50
laima I feel smart it means for what it's worth. Love Phillipa see I haven't killed that many brain cells
Posted by laima on February 15, 2007, at 22:04:44
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous » laima, posted by Declan on February 15, 2007, at 21:40:50
Thanks, you'll be relieved to know I figured it out before too long. I guess that would be an example of lingering "cognitive difficulty".
> FWIW means 'for what it's worth'.
Posted by Declan on February 16, 2007, at 1:29:19
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous » Declan, posted by laima on February 15, 2007, at 22:04:44
I'm impressed that I know something about computer talk that you did not.
I feel very intelligent.
Posted by yxibow on February 16, 2007, at 2:37:26
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous, posted by laima on February 15, 2007, at 16:21:35
>
> Thought I'd add, when I had my sleep studies I was spending long hours asleep- like 9 or even 10- but was still tired all day long, even after starting stimulants. The sleep doctor and the psychiatrist I see now were both certain that this was due to the fact that my studies indicated I spent very, very little time in stage 4, despite all of the hours asleep. The sleep doctor really surprised me by recommending more stimulants by day while cutting down or out on clonazapam. Even recently, my doctor was wanting me to have another sleep study before prescribing any sleep medication, to see where I was at. Now he's especially curious, because I'm not using any sleep meds. Also, I'm using far fewer stimulants than before, and feeling much MUCH more awake by day. But I'd rather not go through the ordeal again.
>
> Xyrem sounds intriguing because unlike most other sleep meds, it sounds like it either increases or doesn't affect the deep stages. To bad it doesn't seem to be commonly prescribed.
That's because Xyrem (GHB) is dangerous and was only brought back for a specific disorder. Your doctor can get their license yanked.
Posted by yxibow on February 16, 2007, at 2:38:58
In reply to Sleep Ridiculous, posted by Phillipa on February 15, 2007, at 12:45:31
> For many many years I've been on combos of meds for sleep doesn't matter how many or how strong but in 4-5hours always wake-up and even a redose of med and can't go back to sleep. When in the cycle is the restorative sleep. I do fall asleep right away. Been on xanax, valium, lunesta, ambien,chloral hydrate, klonopin, and combos of the above. Thanks me again Phillipa ps I think the lack of long sleep is keeping the anxiety alive and has lead to the depression.
I know your medicaire doesn't cover a sleep doctor but without a sleep study, which I am considering too, you may be at least partially aiming in the right direction -- you don't know what is happening during sleep, e.g. sleep apnea, and other such things that rob you of true sleep.
Posted by laima on February 16, 2007, at 8:06:49
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous » laima, posted by yxibow on February 16, 2007, at 2:37:26
No wonder it's never been suggested.All I know about xyrem I've read on babble- I didn't actually even think any form of gbh is legal in the US. I know there was a gbh study-for depression- but that was just a preliminary study.
>
> That's because Xyrem (GHB) is dangerous and was only brought back for a specific disorder. Your doctor can get their license yanked.
Posted by laima on February 16, 2007, at 8:08:44
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous » Phillipa, posted by yxibow on February 16, 2007, at 2:38:58
By the way, what was xyrem officially brought back for?
Posted by Quintal on February 16, 2007, at 9:45:14
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous » yxibow, posted by laima on February 16, 2007, at 8:08:44
GHB isn't particularly dangerous, no more so than alcohol for instance. In fact it's considerably safer unless you're a complete idiot and combine it with huge doses other narcotics and sedatives and overdose, but that's much the way with other drugs and it doesn't seem fair to me to single out GHB for that.
Xyrem is licensed as a hypnotic for treating narcolepsy refractory to more acceptable treatments.
Q
Posted by Quintal on February 16, 2007, at 9:54:44
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous » laima, posted by Quintal on February 16, 2007, at 9:45:14
Xyrem is also extortionately expensive for what it is. A guy contacted me through RemedyFind a few years ago because he'd read my rating of Xyrem and his wife hardly slept at all without it because of Lyme's Disease. He couldn't afford the ~$500 price tag for her which I thought was appalling given that I could buy it for less than $1 a gram direct from a pharmaceutical manufacturer in Ireland. Unfortunately it was too risky for him to import it so she just had to suffer.
Q
Posted by randermin on February 16, 2007, at 10:13:09
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous » laima, posted by Phillipa on February 15, 2007, at 21:41:45
I thought some analouges of ghb where being legaly sold for sleep, but thats probably over by now.
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