![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 10 to 34 of 65. Go back in thread:
Posted by Declan on February 15, 2007, at 19:42:08
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous » saturn, posted by Phillipa on February 15, 2007, at 19:23:24
What I try to do with myself, PJ, is to take the lowest dose of benzo that enables me to function.
At least that way sleep is not more disturbed than it would otherwise be.What else can you do?
Deep restorative sleep is important, and the ageing process seems to work against it.
Withdrawing from benzos would take the rest of your life, wouldn't it (not trying to kill you off)?I also use Chinese herb preparations which are quite mild but probably do not adversely affect sleep in the same way as benzos.
Posted by laima on February 15, 2007, at 21:04:33
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous » Phillipa, posted by Declan on February 15, 2007, at 19:42:08
I read that melatonin may increase deep sleep. I wonder if it is true, and how it combines with benzos?
Posted by Declan on February 15, 2007, at 21:22:53
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous, posted by laima on February 15, 2007, at 21:04:33
Melatonin doesn't increase the time spent in deep sleep with me, FWIW.
Posted by laima on February 15, 2007, at 21:30:50
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous » laima, posted by Declan on February 15, 2007, at 21:22:53
Oh. Haven't tested it myself. What is "FWIW"?
> Melatonin doesn't increase the time spent in deep sleep with me, FWIW.
Posted by Phillipa on February 15, 2007, at 21:39:58
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous » Phillipa, posted by Declan on February 15, 2007, at 19:42:08
Declan geez do we need our canes, crutches, or walkers already? Love Phillipa
Posted by Declan on February 15, 2007, at 21:40:50
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous » Declan, posted by laima on February 15, 2007, at 21:30:50
FWIW means 'for what it's worth'.
Posted by Phillipa on February 15, 2007, at 21:41:45
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous » Declan, posted by laima on February 15, 2007, at 21:30:50
laima I feel smart it means for what it's worth. Love Phillipa see I haven't killed that many brain cells
Posted by laima on February 15, 2007, at 22:04:44
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous » laima, posted by Declan on February 15, 2007, at 21:40:50
Thanks, you'll be relieved to know I figured it out before too long. I guess that would be an example of lingering "cognitive difficulty".
> FWIW means 'for what it's worth'.
Posted by Declan on February 16, 2007, at 1:29:19
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous » Declan, posted by laima on February 15, 2007, at 22:04:44
I'm impressed that I know something about computer talk that you did not.
I feel very intelligent.
Posted by yxibow on February 16, 2007, at 2:37:26
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous, posted by laima on February 15, 2007, at 16:21:35
>
> Thought I'd add, when I had my sleep studies I was spending long hours asleep- like 9 or even 10- but was still tired all day long, even after starting stimulants. The sleep doctor and the psychiatrist I see now were both certain that this was due to the fact that my studies indicated I spent very, very little time in stage 4, despite all of the hours asleep. The sleep doctor really surprised me by recommending more stimulants by day while cutting down or out on clonazapam. Even recently, my doctor was wanting me to have another sleep study before prescribing any sleep medication, to see where I was at. Now he's especially curious, because I'm not using any sleep meds. Also, I'm using far fewer stimulants than before, and feeling much MUCH more awake by day. But I'd rather not go through the ordeal again.
>
> Xyrem sounds intriguing because unlike most other sleep meds, it sounds like it either increases or doesn't affect the deep stages. To bad it doesn't seem to be commonly prescribed.
That's because Xyrem (GHB) is dangerous and was only brought back for a specific disorder. Your doctor can get their license yanked.
Posted by yxibow on February 16, 2007, at 2:38:58
In reply to Sleep Ridiculous, posted by Phillipa on February 15, 2007, at 12:45:31
> For many many years I've been on combos of meds for sleep doesn't matter how many or how strong but in 4-5hours always wake-up and even a redose of med and can't go back to sleep. When in the cycle is the restorative sleep. I do fall asleep right away. Been on xanax, valium, lunesta, ambien,chloral hydrate, klonopin, and combos of the above. Thanks me again Phillipa ps I think the lack of long sleep is keeping the anxiety alive and has lead to the depression.
I know your medicaire doesn't cover a sleep doctor but without a sleep study, which I am considering too, you may be at least partially aiming in the right direction -- you don't know what is happening during sleep, e.g. sleep apnea, and other such things that rob you of true sleep.
Posted by laima on February 16, 2007, at 8:06:49
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous » laima, posted by yxibow on February 16, 2007, at 2:37:26
No wonder it's never been suggested.All I know about xyrem I've read on babble- I didn't actually even think any form of gbh is legal in the US. I know there was a gbh study-for depression- but that was just a preliminary study.
>
> That's because Xyrem (GHB) is dangerous and was only brought back for a specific disorder. Your doctor can get their license yanked.
Posted by laima on February 16, 2007, at 8:08:44
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous » Phillipa, posted by yxibow on February 16, 2007, at 2:38:58
By the way, what was xyrem officially brought back for?
Posted by Quintal on February 16, 2007, at 9:45:14
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous » yxibow, posted by laima on February 16, 2007, at 8:08:44
GHB isn't particularly dangerous, no more so than alcohol for instance. In fact it's considerably safer unless you're a complete idiot and combine it with huge doses other narcotics and sedatives and overdose, but that's much the way with other drugs and it doesn't seem fair to me to single out GHB for that.
Xyrem is licensed as a hypnotic for treating narcolepsy refractory to more acceptable treatments.
Q
Posted by Quintal on February 16, 2007, at 9:54:44
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous » laima, posted by Quintal on February 16, 2007, at 9:45:14
Xyrem is also extortionately expensive for what it is. A guy contacted me through RemedyFind a few years ago because he'd read my rating of Xyrem and his wife hardly slept at all without it because of Lyme's Disease. He couldn't afford the ~$500 price tag for her which I thought was appalling given that I could buy it for less than $1 a gram direct from a pharmaceutical manufacturer in Ireland. Unfortunately it was too risky for him to import it so she just had to suffer.
Q
Posted by randermin on February 16, 2007, at 10:13:09
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous » laima, posted by Phillipa on February 15, 2007, at 21:41:45
I thought some analouges of ghb where being legaly sold for sleep, but thats probably over by now.
Posted by TheMeanReds on February 16, 2007, at 12:12:58
In reply to Sleep Ridiculous, posted by Phillipa on February 15, 2007, at 12:45:31
You've probably heard this about a billion times, but staying awake for 18 hours and then going to bed works for some people. I take 100mg of seroquel, and try to think of things that wont trigger stress. Good Luck
Posted by laima on February 16, 2007, at 14:17:33
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous, posted by TheMeanReds on February 16, 2007, at 12:12:58
Well interesting, that is maybe akin to something the sleep doctor suggested to me when I was sleeping those long hours and still unrested. She was in favor of me setting up regular sleep and wake times, and sticking to them, even if I was tired.
> You've probably heard this about a billion times, but staying awake for 18 hours and then going to bed works for some people. I take 100mg of seroquel, and try to think of things that wont trigger stress. Good Luck
Posted by TheMeanReds on February 16, 2007, at 15:01:08
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous, posted by TheMeanReds on February 16, 2007, at 12:12:58
Insomnia is the worst. 5 years ago while on Paxil when my insomia was nothing big, I took melatonin. Then my good friend (psyh major) said taking it for more than two weeks is somehow bad for 'sleep chemistry'. I'd wake in the middle of sleep, going to sleep wasnt an issue. Then I tried getting up and having a piece of toast and milk. The method worked for awhile.
Benedryl helped me fall asleep, but tolerence builds. Bong hits definately was not the answer, even though in high school it worked like a charm.
When on Remeron, I was OUT, but all I wanted to do was eat while I was awake. So that was short lived.
When on Seroquel, I still had pretty much a virgin brain. It nocked me out. I only had to take a tiny pebble of a pill.
After a while I got a script for Klonopin. I agree it messes with sleep cycles, not in a good way though.
Then I became a bartender on Lexapro...things got really bad. Going to bed at 5am, and waking at noon. A regular at the bar was an herbal pharmasist. He told me to take 4 caps of hops before bed, and alphalfa three times daily. It worked.
One thing I would like to point out is that I absolutely cannot even have a glass of wine in the evening, it will mess up my sleep. No coffee after noon time. And even though Its hard, no cigarettes after 3 pm. Even though I miss my merlot, its better than missing my sleep.
To all insomniacs, I hope any of these suggestions help. Even the ones that didnt personally work for me. Good Luck.
Posted by kaleidoscope on February 16, 2007, at 15:54:56
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous » Phillipa, posted by Quintal on February 15, 2007, at 13:54:28
Q,
What dose of mirtazapine did you try?
K
Posted by Quintal on February 16, 2007, at 16:03:47
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous » Quintal, posted by kaleidoscope on February 16, 2007, at 15:54:56
K,
I tried a variety of doses from 7.5mg to 30mg but didn't notice all that much difference between them. I used the 30mg dose as an antidepressant and the lower doses as a hypnotic.
Q
Posted by kaleidoscope on February 16, 2007, at 16:35:27
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous » kaleidoscope, posted by Quintal on February 16, 2007, at 16:03:47
Hi Q
I was just curious because restlessness has been reported as a side effect of mirtazepine at high doses, but seems rare at very low doses. Since low doses can be effective for insomnia, I was wondering whether a low dose would work best for your insomnia.
K
Posted by Quintal on February 16, 2007, at 16:39:45
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous » Quintal, posted by kaleidoscope on February 16, 2007, at 16:35:27
I could re-try it again for you if you would like me to experiment, but it went off some time ago and I'm no longer convinced it's safe. I keep it more as a souvenir.
Q
Posted by Phillipa on February 16, 2007, at 19:18:18
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous » kaleidoscope, posted by Quintal on February 16, 2007, at 16:39:45
Q what about the safety of remeron? Love Phillipa
Posted by Quintal on February 16, 2007, at 20:16:09
In reply to Re: Sleep Ridiculous » Quintal, posted by Phillipa on February 16, 2007, at 19:18:18
It's a relatively safe med Phillipa.
Q
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.