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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Johann on June 8, 2007, at 1:25:24
After feeling generally well, I've had a few days now of insomnia and intense depression (sadness, pessimism, and that almost physical painfull sensation). I can't pin it to anything except that I exercised hard one day, drove 7 hours the next, then exercised hard the next day. I'm 52. Strangely, Klonopin helps.
I sweat like the proverbial pig, so I likely got dehydrated, which may have affected my serum levels, but lithium levels are only supposed to increase with dehyrdration.
I take lithium, Risperdone, and Lamictal, as well as a little Klonopin.
Anyone else had this experience?
Posted by Johann on June 8, 2007, at 1:55:38
In reply to Exercise caused depression?, posted by Johann on June 8, 2007, at 1:25:24
Forgot to mention that I take EMSAM, as well.
> After feeling generally well, I've had a few days now of insomnia and intense depression (sadness, pessimism, and that almost physical painfull sensation). I can't pin it to anything except that I exercised hard one day, drove 7 hours the next, then exercised hard the next day. I'm 52. Strangely, Klonopin helps.
>
> I sweat like the proverbial pig, so I likely got dehydrated, which may have affected my serum levels, but lithium levels are only supposed to increase with dehyrdration.
>
> I take lithium, Risperdone, and Lamictal, as well as a little Klonopin.
>
> Anyone else had this experience?
Posted by Phillipa on June 8, 2007, at 12:40:39
In reply to Re: Exercise caused depression? Forgot EMSAM, posted by Johann on June 8, 2007, at 1:55:38
Are you used to all this activity? As I've done the same to myself with going out twice as much and water supposedly gives you more energy haven't seen this in me. But with lithium shouldn't you drink more water? Love Phillipa
Posted by deniseuk190466 on June 10, 2007, at 11:39:57
In reply to Exercise caused depression?, posted by Johann on June 8, 2007, at 1:25:24
Johann,
My guess is that the exercise hasn't caused your depression but that the depression/anxiety is still there but that is just going by my own experiences in the past.
Years and years ago before I ever started taking antidepressants and before I was ever diagnosed as having depression, I often had these suffocated feelings and feelings of not being able to breathe properly. I believed at the time I had a lung problem and that exercise would help. So I started swimming about 3 nights a week. The following two days after swimming I would actually feel worse, physically and mentally drained and my breathing would feel worse.
I think that depression/anxiety causes problems with breathing as the breathing centre in the brain is disrupted and that if your breathing isn't right then exercise can make it worse. But then that is just a guess, I'm probably talking utter rubbish.
Denise
Posted by Johann on June 10, 2007, at 14:32:16
In reply to To Johann, posted by deniseuk190466 on June 10, 2007, at 11:39:57
Denise,
Thanks for taking the time to respond. I usually exercise three time, a week, but spaced out and not so hard, and I feel better after. However, breathing may play some role. I have noticed that during the stay I will take sudden breaths, as though I have daytime apnea. My doctor says this is due to my medications.
I've been feeling incrementally better over the week, which could be the result of my body getting back to normal. However, I also increased the Lamictal--but it shouldn't work so quickly.
Yes, the bodymind is a mystery. I just wish it weren't such a painful one for us.
Thanks again,
Johann> Johann,
>
> My guess is that the exercise hasn't caused your depression but that the depression/anxiety is still there but that is just going by my own experiences in the past.
>
> Years and years ago before I ever started taking antidepressants and before I was ever diagnosed as having depression, I often had these suffocated feelings and feelings of not being able to breathe properly. I believed at the time I had a lung problem and that exercise would help. So I started swimming about 3 nights a week. The following two days after swimming I would actually feel worse, physically and mentally drained and my breathing would feel worse.
>
> I think that depression/anxiety causes problems with breathing as the breathing centre in the brain is disrupted and that if your breathing isn't right then exercise can make it worse. But then that is just a guess, I'm probably talking utter rubbish.
>
>
> Denise
Posted by jflange on June 10, 2007, at 20:11:12
In reply to Re: To Johann, posted by Johann on June 10, 2007, at 14:32:16
Hi Johann-
I am glad to hear someone else has these issues. I take zoloft and buspar and after an unusually hard workout, I have rebound anxiety and strange depression feelings (which is not my usual state). After a couple of days, things balance out again.
My theory: exercise increases the metabolization of medication. That is, the sensation of having less medication in the body.
I am not a doctor and my own pdoc says he "has never heard of this." But over the years, I have a couple of strategies to deal with this problem. 1. Don't exercise too hard all at once, but moderately with more frequency. 2. Lower impact exercise seems to agree with me more and cause fewer side effects in general. 3. Give yourself a day or two in between exercise bouts, though you say this didn't help you before. 4. If you are embarking on a period of more intense exercise, consider upping your doses (for me, upping the buspar did the trick).
Good luck to you. I wish there were more answers out there. Best, jflange
Posted by Johann on June 10, 2007, at 20:21:12
In reply to Yes! Hard exercise + meds = depression and anxiety, posted by jflange on June 10, 2007, at 20:11:12
Hi jflange,
Thanks for your response.
Yes, I think both increased metabolization and dehydration affect the serum levels in our blood. How could they not? MAOI contraindications include no "strenuous exercise" because it can cause trouble in regulating the body's core temperature.
I normally space my exercise out over the week, but this time I had three hard days on my body (including driving for 7 hours) in a row. I guess I've learned a lesson, regardless of what some psychiatrist's say. Haven't been able to talk with mine yet, but I think he'll agree with us.
Best to you,
Johann
> Hi Johann-
>
> I am glad to hear someone else has these issues. I take zoloft and buspar and after an unusually hard workout, I have rebound anxiety and strange depression feelings (which is not my usual state). After a couple of days, things balance out again.
>
> My theory: exercise increases the metabolization of medication. That is, the sensation of having less medication in the body.
>
> I am not a doctor and my own pdoc says he "has never heard of this." But over the years, I have a couple of strategies to deal with this problem. 1. Don't exercise too hard all at once, but moderately with more frequency. 2. Lower impact exercise seems to agree with me more and cause fewer side effects in general. 3. Give yourself a day or two in between exercise bouts, though you say this didn't help you before. 4. If you are embarking on a period of more intense exercise, consider upping your doses (for me, upping the buspar did the trick).
>
> Good luck to you. I wish there were more answers out there. Best, jflange
Posted by AdamCanada on June 11, 2007, at 0:44:15
In reply to Exercise caused depression?, posted by Johann on June 8, 2007, at 1:25:24
whenever i excersize for more than a few mins it generally worsens my mood and i feel worse for a long period during the day.
maybe it sweats out my paxil? who knows. excersize doesnt help everyone it sure as heck doesnt make me feel better ever
Posted by Phillipa on June 11, 2007, at 19:15:08
In reply to When I excersize too much it worsens dep for sure » Johann, posted by AdamCanada on June 11, 2007, at 0:44:15
Adam were you ever an excerciser? Maybe something light and fairly easy like swimming in a pool? Love Phillipa
Posted by Johann on June 11, 2007, at 19:43:19
In reply to When I excersize too much it worsens dep for sure » Johann, posted by AdamCanada on June 11, 2007, at 0:44:15
I remembered recently that a number of years ago, and for many years before that, I thought I had a form of chronic fatigue. Most any exercise of some intensity would deplete me physically and emotionally. Sometimes I would sleep many hours to recover.
Then, after I hiring a trainer and starting to increase my exercise by small increments, I found myself to be more robust--and generally healthier and more fit. But all this was contingent on taking it very slowly.
So my recent bout, of what appears to be exercise-induced depletion and depression after exercising much more than usual, makes me think I still have this underlying condition, or vulnerability to fatigue. I just don't notice it as much.
I think for many people the physical side of depression is pooh-poohed, and that it may be harder to exercise for depressed people than it is for others--which makes it all the more frustrating when "helpful" folk want to be cheerleaders. They don't understand.
Johann
> whenever i excersize for more than a few mins it generally worsens my mood and i feel worse for a long period during the day.
>
>
> maybe it sweats out my paxil? who knows. excersize doesnt help everyone it sure as heck doesnt make me feel better ever
Posted by linkadge on June 16, 2007, at 10:40:14
In reply to Re: When I excersize too much it worsens dep for sure » AdamCanada, posted by Johann on June 11, 2007, at 19:43:19
Heavy exercise can initiate significant brain placticity through the upregulation of growth factors.
Sometimes brain placticity starts out negative, ie the brain starts to try and confront the things in life that are not quite right. This can create initial dissonance, but it usually ends in a greater sense of peace in the long run.
Exercise can sometimes open doors that people don't want to have open.
Of course don't overexercise or there could be physical reasons for dysphoria.
Linkadge
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