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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 19 to 43 of 97. Go back in thread:
Posted by Enigma on August 13, 2007, at 14:18:07
In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everything, posted by Cecilia on August 12, 2007, at 1:41:00
> You are definitely not alone, Enigma. I too am in the same situation, except haven't tried ECT, did have transcranial magnetic stimulation though, which didn't help. And doctors ARE clueless, they think AD's work better than they do because most of the patients they don't work for either go to another doctor or give up on doctors altogether. It never occurs to them to wonder, how is so and so doing, it's out of sight, out of mind. I'm sure there are exceptions, but they are few, most are quite glad if their treatment resistant patients don't come back. Cecilia
I agree 100%. I've had one doctor almost flat out say that he wouldn't treat me. He tried to work around saying the exact words, probably for legal reasons. I've had other gladly suggest other doctors for me to see. There was one doctor that actually made me so mad because he almost lost me my disability and wouldn't listen to my symptoms. I almost knocked him out.
Funny, after telling him that I just had a year long battle going on/off short term then long term disability with my current (now ex) employer, doing everything in my power to KEEP my job, and THEY were the ones who booted me at the end (either take termination or long term dis. WITH benefits and pay). Wow, tough choice.. not. He actually suggested that I go back to work!!! I almost jumped out the window, taking him with me of course.
These people make over $100 an hour for what again?
I have other doctor horror stories, hell, too many....
Posted by linkadge on August 13, 2007, at 22:10:27
In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt, posted by Enigma on August 13, 2007, at 14:18:07
It doesn't make sence to me that a doctor would more or less tell you that s/he won't treat you.
How hard is it to take a patient in, listen to their problems and twiddle their meds around a little bit?
That being said, if I felt that I may not be able to help the patient, I would make it clear that I would treat them but could make no guarentees.
Dead ends hurt a depressed patient the most.
Even if a patient spends their entire life moving from placebo to placebo this is better than nothing.
Linkadge
Posted by Bob on August 14, 2007, at 14:22:40
In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt, posted by linkadge on August 13, 2007, at 22:10:27
> It doesn't make sence to me that a doctor would more or less tell you that s/he won't treat you.
>
> How hard is it to take a patient in, listen to their problems and twiddle their meds around a little bit?
>
> That being said, if I felt that I may not be able to help the patient, I would make it clear that I would treat them but could make no guarentees.
>
> Dead ends hurt a depressed patient the most.
>
> Even if a patient spends their entire life moving from placebo to placebo this is better than nothing.
>
>
> Linkadge
>
>
>I've encountered multiple doctors who say right over the phone that they simply are taking no more new patients. I even called one once who had that on his answering machine. In these cases it wasn't that they didn't want my particular case, but rather that they were ultra-overloaded and probably wouldn't need another patient for the rest of their careers.
Posted by linkadge on August 14, 2007, at 21:46:27
In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt » linkadge, posted by Bob on August 14, 2007, at 14:22:40
I see what you are saying. The only reason I commented was because there have been doctors who would not treat my mother, for example, on account of the chronicity of her problems.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on August 14, 2007, at 21:54:54
In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt, posted by linkadge on August 14, 2007, at 21:46:27
Link I feel so bad for you and your Mom. Not her fault or yours. I know you love her dearly. Love Phillipa
Posted by Enigma on August 15, 2007, at 10:29:52
In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt » linkadge, posted by Bob on August 14, 2007, at 14:22:40
> > It doesn't make sense to me that a doctor would more or less tell you that s/he won't treat you.
> >
> > How hard is it to take a patient in, listen to their problems and twiddle their meds around a little bit?
> >
> > That being said, if I felt that I may not be able to help the patient, I would make it clear that I would treat them but could make no guarentees.I agree 100%. I would tell them I'm not qualified (for treatment resistant patients, or whatever is actually true), and let the patient know exactly where they stand in regards to getting treatment from me.
> >
> > Dead ends hurt a depressed patient the most.
> >
> > Even if a patient spends their entire life moving from placebo to placebo this is better than nothing.
> >I agree. I've been fairly suicidal and open about it to doctors and still they could literally care less, and this, blows my mind. I guess there are a LOT of doctors out there who DO, do it for the money and not to help people.
> I've encountered multiple doctors who say right over the phone that they simply are taking no more new patients. I even called one once who had that on his answering machine. In these cases it wasn't that they didn't want my particular case, but rather that they were ultra-overloaded and probably wouldn't need another patient for the rest of their careers.
In my posts, I'm not talking about these doctors. I'm talking about the ones who ARE taking patients. It's actually the very first question I ask them. Once I find out they are available, it's AFTER they are unable to help me (and some give up VERY QUICKLY) that they dump me back on the street.
I don't blame any doctor (of any discipline) for having a full patient load. I'm only criticizing doctors who very easily give up on tough to treat patients.
Posted by Bob on August 15, 2007, at 11:30:59
In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt, posted by Enigma on August 15, 2007, at 10:29:52
> I don't blame any doctor (of any discipline) for having a full patient load. I'm only criticizing doctors who very easily give up on tough to treat patients.I think both situations are frustrating, but I can see how the latter is more aggravating.
I'm not really blaming doctors for full patient loads, but it's pretty disappointing when I search for a new doctor and the first 3 or 4 can't handle a single additional patient. Scary situation, really.
Posted by jhj on August 16, 2007, at 6:12:20
In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt » Enigma, posted by Bob on August 15, 2007, at 11:30:59
Why do not they try drugs like ketamine under strict supervision.If it can get rid of TRD,then it is worth the effort.They can hospitalize patient if they fear extremely serious side effects.Well as far as Doctors not taking patients because they are overloaded,i think it is very suprising.I am from India and here you can wake up most of the doctors even in the night and get the treatment if you feel your condition is very bad.Thanks
Posted by calamityjane on August 23, 2007, at 21:18:02
In reply to Still no cure for my depression - tried everything, posted by Enigma on August 11, 2007, at 11:35:41
Enigma - please please please email me. Never would I think I would post my real email address in a message board, but I am desperate to talk to you. Here is my email address - i am putting spaces in between so that nobody will search my email on google and have this show up, as this site is obviously a very personal one. At any rate, my email is
[xxx]but all together with no spaces at all.
please please please email me.....
thanks!
ashley
Posted by Phillipa on August 23, 2007, at 21:34:02
In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everything, posted by calamityjane on August 23, 2007, at 21:18:02
I wouldn't post my e-mail on a public message board no not safe. But is his or her babblemail off? Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on August 23, 2007, at 21:36:07
In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everything, posted by calamityjane on August 23, 2007, at 21:18:02
CJ e-mail bob and ask him to delete it I did once and he did and ask Enigma to babblemail you. Phillipa
Posted by Enigma on August 24, 2007, at 8:36:32
In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everything, posted by calamityjane on August 23, 2007, at 21:18:02
Ok, I emailed ya, you can have the doc delete your post now.
I thought my babble-mail was on. I'll check right now.
If anyone is curious, I'm a 38yo guy.
Posted by jhj on August 24, 2007, at 8:47:20
In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everything » calamityjane, posted by Phillipa on August 23, 2007, at 21:36:07
Hi Philipa,
We have a famous adage in India.I do not know you have any proverb like that in west.The adage goes like "Once an arrow leaves the bow,it never comes back".What is the point in deleting email address now.I understand that this is site for a particular kind of people only and not many ordinary people visit it.But,what if i have noted down this email address and start distributing in India?
Posted by Enigma on August 24, 2007, at 8:48:19
In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everything, posted by calamityjane on August 23, 2007, at 21:18:02
Ok, my babble-mail was off, which surprised me, but, it's on now.
Posted by jhj on August 24, 2007, at 9:11:41
In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt, posted by Enigma on August 24, 2007, at 8:36:32
Thanks.But i am only 29 years old.38 is too old for me to be interested.Can not you reduce your age by some years? okey wish me better luck next time.
Posted by calamityjane on August 24, 2007, at 18:11:02
In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt, posted by Enigma on August 24, 2007, at 8:36:32
> Ok, I emailed ya, you can have the doc delete your post now.
>
> I thought my babble-mail was on. I'll check right now.
>
> If anyone is curious, I'm a 38yo guy.
>You are 38? wow - that is exactly the age of my father.
Posted by calamityjane on August 24, 2007, at 18:11:51
In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everything » calamityjane, posted by Phillipa on August 23, 2007, at 21:34:02
thanks guys - - his babble was off, and i very much wanted to contact him....but i will email dr bob now...
Posted by Phillipa on August 24, 2007, at 19:35:42
In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everything, posted by jhj on August 24, 2007, at 8:47:20
Very true but the less time online the better just how I feel others feel differently as we are all different. Good luck to you and glad you two got together. Phillipa
Posted by Existentialist on August 24, 2007, at 22:09:07
In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everything » jhj, posted by Phillipa on August 24, 2007, at 19:35:42
Most psych meds I've tried have been pretty gross feeling. When I was 16 (22 now) I had good results with paxil 10mg for 6 months in which I went from being quite depressed and introverted to having had 2 girlfriends, a first for me. It was a strange year where I was someone else on them. I never liked that fact. When I came off it, I was glad to just be myself again. I also used Effexor for a while at 37.5, both times they wanted me on higher doses which would have been intolerable to me. Do you think your doses have been too high?
As far as alternatives if it was the mid 60's you'd be a candicate for LSD psychotherapy as a means to bring about a spiritual and personal catharsis. The literature is filled with instances of people being cured by it. One instance reports a little girl who would only scream and was uncommunative and unresponsive to human contact, but thorugh a serries of sessions recovered.
People also report profound changes on the outlook of their life after MDMA which was used theraputically in the 80's.
And of course medical marijuana. I myself when I was 19 and tried it fo the first time experienced a sense of life and emotional and spiritual awakening, and feelings of joy I had not known possible or felt since I was perhaps a small boy. I've cried with joy from pot and the emotional release it had on me after feeling so dead inside for so long.I believe these choices should be considered before ECT or suicide despite the legal issues involved.
Posted by Existentialist on August 24, 2007, at 22:24:27
In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everything, posted by Existentialist on August 24, 2007, at 22:09:07
The one book talks about a variety of researchers and their experiences in the field doing work with LSD, it's called "Higher Wisdom: Eminent Elders Explore the Continuing Impact of Psychedelics ". One psychatrist talks about his own experience and how hard headed he was having been through 12 years of med school and how it changed him.
Another great book but specifically about LSD is called "The Varieties of Psychedelic Experience". Even reading these without doing the drugs might be helpful. Another great book is called "The primal wound" It has nothing to do with drugs but advocates methods to 'unlock' people who have detatched and shutdown as it sounds you have.
Posted by jhj on August 25, 2007, at 1:58:05
In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everything » jhj, posted by Phillipa on August 24, 2007, at 19:35:42
Hi Philipa,I do not feel differently.what you had suggested is absolutely correct.I wrote that in lighter vein.sorry,if you have misunderstood me.I am least interested in noting down email addresses of other people without their permission.I am always busy tackling anxiety and depression.No time for other things.
Posted by jhj on August 25, 2007, at 2:09:13
In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everything, posted by Existentialist on August 24, 2007, at 22:09:07
I believe these choices should be considered before ECT or suicide despite the legal issues involved.
Hi Existentialist,
do you mean that if your suggested choices fail,then suicide should be cosidered? Well let me say that suicide can never be the option even option of last report.I have problems of depression,social phobia and GAD for past 15 years with out any drugs giving me even iota of benefit.But,not once even i have thought about suicide.Research is always going on and companies are trying to develop new medicines with different mechanism.So,there is always a chance.I do not see why suicide should even be considered.
Posted by Existentialist on August 25, 2007, at 13:27:05
In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everything, posted by jhj on August 25, 2007, at 2:09:13
No, I didn't mean that suicide was a 'serious' option to consider, but I was trying to imply that before that level of desperation is reached, that psychadellic illegal drugs should be on the table. I'm not sure how controversial it is to talk about that here.
Also I think before you look at those drugs there is a lot to be done as far as understanding ourselves and our lives and the root causes of human distrubance. I think it's a result of personal and social development, and general lack of sanity modern life can have. It's a repressive way of life we live and control games and psychological defense mechanisms are abundant.
Healthy lifestyle and diet and exclusion of other biological illness. Perhaps visit a bhuddist monestary and live there for a year and see if your perspective changes. Some sort of massive lifestyle overhaul and self help where you try and rebuild yourself, think about why you have the emotions you do, and work to develop new emotional and cognitive patterns.
My life has had a lot of ups and downs, and for most of it I've felt quite off. Growing up in my family was totally screwed up, socially in school I was totally screwed up. I finally made it to college and things got screwed up there as well. It's all been a huge process of evolution. The danger is getting stuck in a reppressive lifestyle and mental and physical pattern (bad diet, lack of exercise) that you can't escape from.
jhj, Have you tried social immersion? I went from being quite poor and uncomfortable socially to be able to strike up conversations and being outgoing in about a year. I changed how I understood other people and learned new social skills I did not have before. I changed my lifestyle so I was not constantly avoiding social interaction. Through many interactions I found a personality and parts of myself I wanted to express back to them.
Posted by blueboy on August 25, 2007, at 15:33:11
In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everything, posted by jhj on August 25, 2007, at 2:09:13
> I believe these choices should be considered before ECT or suicide despite the legal issues involved.
>
> Hi Existentialist,
>
> do you mean that if your suggested choices fail,then suicide should be cosidered?Dude! He didn't say that. He said that anything is better than ECT or suicide, including something illegal and/or as way-out as "LSD therapy".
I'm old and I came along in the recreational drug era, so I pretty much tried everything and watched a lot of other people, too. My personal thought is that LSD is not so great for you in the long run. I met Timothy Leary in 1988 and the guy seemed like a total zombie.
I'd personally try ECT before I'd become a long-term user of an hallucinogen -- mostly, I think it's more likely to be effective against depression -- but they are both pretty scary.
Posted by rskontos on August 25, 2007, at 16:00:26
In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt, posted by blueboy on August 25, 2007, at 15:33:11
HI guys, i have by no means tried everything but I can related to the depression issues. I am having a tough day today and I am not taking anything due to just coming off cymbalta and it was pure hel_ getting off and I refused to try anything else at the present. I dissassociate for the most part and that keeps my panic attacks and depression at bay but not today. Today isn't good and I am feeling all alone. Actually I am all alone except for my dogs and today it sucks. Can I say that. I am new to this site so if I can't I am sorry mr. moderator. but today I must ask for forgivness. I have had a troubling past and for the most part dissassociated to get through it (my therapists' words) I had migraines and have had some prescription drugs for it it is a wonder I am not hooked to pain killers because of it. But migraines are funny things and in my case they probably helped me not get hooked but now the pain killers do nothing even when I need them to. I had thoughts of suicide on cymbalta, didn't go off of it when I did, nor did I act on it. I still have them sometimes. I don't act on it. I think that these thoughts are the nature of the beast of depression. JMHO. I would never act upon them and I hope if it gets to bad I will call someone. Today I decide to write to this board. I am sorry for all of you like myself that deal with this hidden illness. The nature of it allows us to hide it and that doesn't help it to be understood by those that don't suffer through it nor does it help us get help. Double edge sword. I understand the desire to have something like cancer a curable one of course as that would allow those around to understand without you needing to explain it. It is hard to understand the nature of depression or panic attacks. It is more than the mental aspects, it is the physical nature of it too that is hard to expain. As I think about it, I recall trying to explain it to my husband who wants me to get well with therapy and move on. As if it were that simple. As if I can control it. I have been in therapy for three months and according to him I should be well and cured. I hate to tell him I might never be cured it might only be managed. Today I can't manage it. Yesterday I was great, I was working and doing well today not so good. I am sorry this is a short novel. Thanks for listening. Rk
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