![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 922 to 946 of 948. Go back in thread:
Posted by Tony P on September 18, 2007, at 21:56:45
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers, posted by Cyclothymic on September 16, 2007, at 0:03:33
Wow, this thread has being going for over 8 years! Is that a record?
I am so pleased to see other people talking about cyclothymia ... when I used the term to my pdoc, he described it as obsolete, now it's all "ultra-rapid cycling bipolar" etc., but it perfectly describes what I've been going through in the past year or so, with a main cycle of a few days to a week or so.
The creative/artistic connection, mentioned way back in the thread, has been a big thing for me recently. After many years of writing almost no music, I started work a couple of months ago on a major classical choral piece for a concert later this month. I found I was staying up all night riding the high of composition, often for several nights in a row, then crashing and sleeping for as long as 36 hrs. at a stretch.
The most difficult thing is that I enjoy the highs, and they _have_ been productive -- I've written the one piece that I'm very proud of, and knocked off a few others that are quite OK. I also resurrected a number of pieces I wrote or left unfinished in my teens & early twenties (the pencil manuscripts were beginning to fade!), revised them & got them into the computer so I can print out readable copies. They somehow look much more impressive than handwritten MSS, so I get extra satisfaction out of seeing myself in print, as it were!
Trouble is of course the roller-coaster ride I've been on creates some major problems for me, not just the depressive side of the mood swings, but being out of synch with the rest of the world (up all night/asleep all day), not able to commit to a regular day job, and not even managing normal self-care because I'm either too high & concentrated on what I'm doing to care, or I'm too exhausted to have the energy to brush my teeth or even undress for bed - when I crash, I **crash**!
Browsing quickly through the thread has reminded me of a couple of med. approaches & other strategies I need to get on to, or back to. I do have a minor but significant S.A.D. component, & right about now is the time of year when it kicks in, so I've got out the hi-intensity light and I'll put it on a timer so it wakes me up whether I want to or not.
As far as meds go, my main A/D is Remeron 30 mg. at night. I also take Requip (ropinirole, a dopamine booster) & 1-2 mg/day clonazepam as I suffer a fair bit from social anxiety and even agrophobia. I've been a bit irregular with the Remeron lately: I skip it when I'm on an all-night high (because I don't _want_ to stop & sleep) then either take it in the AM and sleep the day away or add an extra half dose over the next two nights. It has at least kept me free from the near-suicidal level of depression I was cycling through six months ago. I've also been self-medicating with mild stimulants such as Modafinil, Adrafinil & good old coffee, which of course only make the hypo-manic highs higher, but lately they haven't been working to get me moving in the crash periods -- I can take a full dose of Adrafinil (600 mg) and then sleep for 10 hrs. So all in all I'm on a regime that's mostly activating -- no wonder I'm getting hypo-manic swings!
I was on a mood-stabiliser for a year or two, Lamictal, and in retrospect I may not have been having as much fun, but I sure wasn't swinging as wide. The main reason I haven't gone back on to it before now is the very slow dose build-up recommended versus not being entirely sure how helpful it will be. I haven't seen my pdoc for a couple of months or more, so it's time to discuss that with him again. I think it was working better for me than I credited at the time. I've also tried Neurontin, but it mostly makes me dopey without a lot of benefit that I can feel.
I need to hit the cognitive/behavioural side too, get more order & discipline back in my life (how I hate that d--- word!), but where does one start? Especially when my current crazy lifestyle has such good short-term rewards! Maybe a med change will help me kick-start a turn-around. But I know only too well I have to do some of the legwork as well: I've been through enough different med changes to know that there's no simple "magic bullet" for me.
Tony
Posted by Tony P on September 18, 2007, at 22:29:33
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers, posted by Cyclothymic on September 16, 2007, at 0:03:33
> After reading up on bipolar all over the net, I am concerned about my shrink's decision to put me solely on Wellbutrin, as I have read that antidepressants alone can actually spark a hypomanic episode. I have only recently started taking it, and only a low dosage so I haven't really seen the effects yet.....
> KTMy experience with Wellbutrin (and advice from a couple of pdocs) was that's it's a really risky med for myself or anyone with any sort of bipolar spectrum, esp. BP III (AD-induced hypomania). I actually felt pretty darned good a lot of the time I was taking it, although I was getting anxiety attacks and major insomnia, but my family told me I was acting and talking quite uncharacteristically, well "crazy" I think was the technical term they used! I also wound up taking a lot of both prescribed and OTC tranquilizers to mitigate the anxiety and insomnia, so it was not a good med. for me.
YMMV - at least Wb works very fast compared with some ADs, so you should know quite quickly if it's right for you.
Good luck, and let us know how it goes,
Tony
Posted by polarbear206 on September 19, 2007, at 9:18:16
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers, posted by Tony P on September 18, 2007, at 21:56:45
> Wow, this thread has being going for over 8 years! Is that a record?
>
> I am so pleased to see other people talking about cyclothymia ... when I used the term to my pdoc, he described it as obsolete, now it's all "ultra-rapid cycling bipolar" etc., but it perfectly describes what I've been going through in the past year or so, with a main cycle of a few days to a week or so.
>
> The creative/artistic connection, mentioned way back in the thread, has been a big thing for me recently. After many years of writing almost no music, I started work a couple of months ago on a major classical choral piece for a concert later this month. I found I was staying up all night riding the high of composition, often for several nights in a row, then crashing and sleeping for as long as 36 hrs. at a stretch.
>
> The most difficult thing is that I enjoy the highs, and they _have_ been productive -- I've written the one piece that I'm very proud of, and knocked off a few others that are quite OK. I also resurrected a number of pieces I wrote or left unfinished in my teens & early twenties (the pencil manuscripts were beginning to fade!), revised them & got them into the computer so I can print out readable copies. They somehow look much more impressive than handwritten MSS, so I get extra satisfaction out of seeing myself in print, as it were!
>
> Trouble is of course the roller-coaster ride I've been on creates some major problems for me, not just the depressive side of the mood swings, but being out of synch with the rest of the world (up all night/asleep all day), not able to commit to a regular day job, and not even managing normal self-care because I'm either too high & concentrated on what I'm doing to care, or I'm too exhausted to have the energy to brush my teeth or even undress for bed - when I crash, I **crash**!
>
> Browsing quickly through the thread has reminded me of a couple of med. approaches & other strategies I need to get on to, or back to. I do have a minor but significant S.A.D. component, & right about now is the time of year when it kicks in, so I've got out the hi-intensity light and I'll put it on a timer so it wakes me up whether I want to or not.
>
> As far as meds go, my main A/D is Remeron 30 mg. at night. I also take Requip (ropinirole, a dopamine booster) & 1-2 mg/day clonazepam as I suffer a fair bit from social anxiety and even agrophobia. I've been a bit irregular with the Remeron lately: I skip it when I'm on an all-night high (because I don't _want_ to stop & sleep) then either take it in the AM and sleep the day away or add an extra half dose over the next two nights. It has at least kept me free from the near-suicidal level of depression I was cycling through six months ago. I've also been self-medicating with mild stimulants such as Modafinil, Adrafinil & good old coffee, which of course only make the hypo-manic highs higher, but lately they haven't been working to get me moving in the crash periods -- I can take a full dose of Adrafinil (600 mg) and then sleep for 10 hrs. So all in all I'm on a regime that's mostly activating -- no wonder I'm getting hypo-manic swings!
>
> I was on a mood-stabiliser for a year or two, Lamictal, and in retrospect I may not have been having as much fun, but I sure wasn't swinging as wide. The main reason I haven't gone back on to it before now is the very slow dose build-up recommended versus not being entirely sure how helpful it will be. I haven't seen my pdoc for a couple of months or more, so it's time to discuss that with him again. I think it was working better for me than I credited at the time. I've also tried Neurontin, but it mostly makes me dopey without a lot of benefit that I can feel.
>
> I need to hit the cognitive/behavioural side too, get more order & discipline back in my life (how I hate that d--- word!), but where does one start? Especially when my current crazy lifestyle has such good short-term rewards! Maybe a med change will help me kick-start a turn-around. But I know only too well I have to do some of the legwork as well: I've been through enough different med changes to know that there's no simple "magic bullet" for me.
>
> TonyTony,
Sounds like your on the right track. The longer you let it go without proper treatment, the worse your cycling will get. I can relate to some of what you have said. Lamictal is a wonderful mood stabilizer and has a good track record for many of us on babble. You probably read some of my post from this thread way back. I seem to always have problems when the seasons change, but it was 10 times as worse before I started lamictal. I've been on it for many years. If you do need to be on an antidperessant in addition to a mood stabilizer, keep it at the lowest possible dose to prevent mood cycling. I do because my soft bipolar is depression dominated.
lamictal 200mg
Effexor 150mg
Wellbutrin 150mgPolarbear
Posted by beachbum on October 19, 2007, at 10:37:53
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia & mood stabilizers, posted by Cynthia on August 7, 1999, at 16:31:34
Wow my hrs of searching is paying off after 3 yrs! I can never find one who gets like me; well pretty close at least.
My cycles are every 6 or so weeks with debilitating results, to make it short, I can't do anything except sleep. Have had this 25 plus yrs and nothing physical found wrong. To clarify cycles increased through the years in duration and frequency. Been about the same for at least 6 or so years. Have had 2 MDD hospital visits through the yrs.
Anyway 4 yrs ago a new primary doc said I was depressed when I went in Feb. with the same symptoms I get every Feb. [['sick' for 5-6 weeks]]
I disputed that fact cause I only felt depressed cause I was so sick and missed weeks of work and no one can ever help me or know what it is. He said I don't know any different cause I probably always felt this way.[[Dysthymia] He sent me to pdoc again cause nothing they gave me zoloft etc worked. To back up in 94 I was hospitalized and was on like 6 things which only seemed to make me worse. I was a 'holy terror' in hospital and I went in very calm. Through the years I took almost all ssri's and nothing worked so I stopped. [[I would feel depressed sometimes and go to doc]]At the same time I would be full of energy and always was doing something, even after working 12 hrs I would come home and work till 11. I truly didn't understand why others would be so tired. Also woke up almost every hr for yrs and yrs, slept around 4-5 hours.My house had to be just so along with my car and paperwork. I was and still am extremely anxious, would have my moments of rage and be what I thought was 'high strung' Back to the last 4 yrs..second pdoc said I was BP2 and put me on lamictal which didn't cease the cycles either. Lamictal and prozac, still was sick for weeks in Feb.and through the year. Last year light and wellbutrin still sick. Cycles throughout year never changing.
second pdoc again said he never saw this cycle either. Just been on wellbutrin xl 450 for approx. 6 months, 9 months on 300.Three weeks ago went to new [[out of pocket cause I'm 'desperate']] pharmocologist and pdoc [[same]] and he said after 2 hrs. BP2 and put me on provigil and effexor in addition to wellbutrin. If that didn't work wrote down lithium and emsam to try. I resisted mood stab. cause I'm so down already. He was thinking Depacote.
To clarify since lamictal[[2+ yrs][[need to keep better track]] I have almost never except for few days had energy back or motivation.
Old pdoc said I was in depressive stage again, blah...But not having these I do feel depressed all the time. Don't want to do anything and also been sleeping through night since lamictal usually except for few minutes and usually 6-7 hrs.I didn't plan on writing this but got so excited finding some one similar esp with SAD also...
To make long story short I've never found relief and every year for 2 now also getting 2 weeks in fall. Some day I fear I won't have a job. I'm just so worn out with having so many years any advice would be more wonderful than I can say.If you got this far I truly appreciate it.
If any relevance no med gave me side effects except weight gain and no sex drive, no problem just stopping all of them without tapering. Now everything makes me tired including half a 5mg valium when I used to do klonopin and it never fazed me.
Posted by Cyclothymic on October 19, 2007, at 18:17:58
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia + mood stabilizers, posted by beachbum on October 19, 2007, at 10:37:53
I've now been on Wellbutrin for a little over a month, and it has helped me immensely in terms of eliminating my negative thinking and reducing my short-fuse moments. This plus therapy has helped me deal so much better with my "I'm-never-wrong-so-don't-challenge-me" boss. I think before I speak now, and I seem to make better decisions in choosing my battles. In general, I have been much more agreeable.
However, one thing I have learned is I must eat a substantial breakfast before taking it, otherwise I am off-the-wall nervous and/or anxious. Furthermore, it has seriously disrupted my sleep. I'll be dead tired and still have trouble falling asleep, and I will wake up almost every hour through the night. I also remember three or four dreams/nightmares almost daily. It is so bad that I actually woke up because of a nightmare which resumed after I fell back to sleep. I had some sleep issues before taking Wellbutrin but I'd at least get a couple of solid days of sleep per week. Now it's hard to get a couple of consecutive hours of deep sleep.
Has anyone else experienced insomnia because of antidepressants like Wellbutrin? Have you taken them in combination with any sleep aid? Have you taken them in combination with any anti-anxiety medication?
My pdoc presribed me Trazodone as a sleep aid, but I will NEVER take it again. I tried it once and it made me congested, have ridiculous dry mouth, kept me from sleeping all night and gave me a headache that lasted for two days.
Anyhow, I look forward to hearing your responses.
Posted by beachbum on October 20, 2007, at 10:32:41
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia + mood stabilizers, posted by Cyclothymic on October 19, 2007, at 18:17:58
I just know that wellbutrin can be activating so I guess it makes sense that one might not sleep well.
I've been on it for over a year and it's calmed me down and I sleep well but was sleeping well before I started it after taking lamictal.Perhaps you could inquire about klonopin. I was given it because of pain due to neck problems around 5 years ago and a nice side effect I didn't expect was that my chronic insomnia left while taking it. My pdoc gave me script for it so I'm assuming it's safe to take with wellbutrin. I just don't need it. Wishing I would be 'hyper' again right now. :]
Sorry I'm not much help but wanted to try to answer.
Posted by bipolarized on October 21, 2007, at 16:55:33
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia + mood stabilizers, posted by beachbum on October 19, 2007, at 10:37:53
wow sounds like everyone has had varying results w/ all the various meds out there.
my update is that after being put on neurontin for 2 weeks I became suicidal. Then switched onto Depakene, still suicidally depressed (which I wasn't before seeking help--I'd only been mildly annoyed with my tendency to talk to much and feel all melencholy and infinite sadness).....
So, after this solid month of suicidal-ness from meds. I stopped all of them, my doc couldn't explain the reaction except to say that some people have paradoxical reactions. I decided to switch my insurance since I felt that this guy was incompetant.
Then a few weeks after that I get a letter in the mail telling me that that doc was retiring. Just my luck to end up with a pill prescribing weirdo lame-*ss pscyhiatrist after my 1st ever curiousness about whether my occaisional talky moods were an issue.
Anyway, a month after this trauma of meds induced suicidality, I was OK relatively. Though, I think due to the trauma of having experienced that DEEP of a depression caused me to still have lingering suicidal-type thoughts on occaision.
A little over 2 weeks ago I decided to start taking one Wellbutrin per day (left over from when I tried to quit smoking) just until I see my new insurance docs to figure this all out.
My friends assure me I'm not bipolar, but then again they might all be bipolar so who knows. We're all a bunch of ex-junkie punk rock gen-X neo-adult weirdos.....so who knows. All I know is I'm good at my job (teacher) and pay my bills. And if I occaisionally avoid people or talk to much, it's annoying but not nuts.
I'll still consider the opinion of the next doc I see but I'm never again allowing someone to prescribe a med for me on a first visit.
Personally I think the whole world is a little wacky, and if you don't naturally become psychotic or become suicidal then you shouldn't be considered mental.
Posted by Cyclothymic on October 21, 2007, at 20:51:23
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia + mood stabilizers, posted by bipolarized on October 21, 2007, at 16:55:33
You make a good point about not being prescribed something in your first visit. Unfortunately, it seems that's what pdocs are all about these days: selling meds.
So far I'm batting .500 with mine -- a leadoff extra-base hit with the Wellbutrin for anxiety/depression, and a strikeout on three pitches with the Trazadone for sleep problems.
I think it is courageous of you to discuss your thoughts of suicide. I have never come close to doing it, but it is something I started to think about A LOT during my last big down cycle -- just the feeling that I was complete failure and my life was worthless and that this unhappiness would never subside.
I have thought about suicide since I was in my later years of high school when I would go through my down phases, and I didn't think anything was wrong with me because I was sure that "everybody contemplates suicide." But after coming out with my situation to some of my closest friends, it appears I was wrong. And from what I have read, thoughts of suicide are a common sign of bipolar disorder.
All I can say about keeping yourself out of a hole is to do things that are meaningful to you, things that you really want to do, instead of just going through the motions and doing what others want you to do. Best of luck to you getting back on track.
I really wouldn't mind hearing how others have felt when they were down in a hole, and how they dug themselves out of it. It might make some of us feel good to know there are people out there who can relate to our ups and downs or, better said, peaks and valleys.
Posted by KarenRB53 on February 22, 2008, at 10:24:02
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers, posted by JohnL on February 22, 2003, at 10:20:57
> You could try replacing the seroquel with zyprexa. Try 2.5mg Zyprexa at first, with a likely targe range of 5.0 to 7.5mg. I think it could work out for you a lot better than seroquel. In clinical studies they are finding that there is something special about prozac and zyprexa together. This combo has worked well for me, while just about everything else out there either made me worse or had too many side effects. The prozac plus zyprexa combo is a real good one. Dump the seroquel in favor of zyprexa.
>
I realize this is an old posting but are you still taking Prozac with Zyprexa? Prozac is the only AD that lifts my depression but it does cause hypomania for me.
Karen>>
Posted by bipolarized on February 22, 2008, at 11:31:38
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers, posted by KarenRB53 on February 22, 2008, at 10:24:02
I'm now on 150mg of Wellbutrin SR in the mornings.
Then 2-3 mg of Kalonapin (I'm sure I spelled that wrong) at night.I have SEVERE insomnia and that is my primary problem. I'd suspected Cyclothymia only because in addition to the life-long SEVERE sleep disorder I sometimes talk fast and sometimes get over social or anti-social.
Basically though things are working great currently. I'm going off all meds in summer so I can go to a sleep clinic to get a full proper insomnia diagnosis (I suspect Delayed Sleep Phase Insomnia Disorder---look this up on google because it's often mis-diagnosed as a mental disorder i.e. Cyclythymia/bipolar). They have cognitive behavior treatments to reset your sleep patterns and a sleep regimine to follow to keep healthy sleep patterns.
I'll keep the forum updated on the delayed sleep phase disorder sometime by summer.-
Posted by KimberlyS on October 27, 2008, at 21:47:33
In reply to Re: Sleep problems--anxiety-HELP!, posted by Barbara Cat on August 15, 2003, at 13:53:31
I am trying to see if this works!!!
I want to be part of this website and thread!!
Kim
Posted by bipolarized on October 28, 2008, at 11:48:42
In reply to Re: Sleep problems--anxiety-HELP! » Barbara Cat, posted by KimberlyS on October 27, 2008, at 21:47:33
Kim,
Yeah I'm still getting email alerts from this thread.
It works.
Since originally posting on this site I've been told that I don't have cyclothymia or bipolar but that I actually just have a sleep disorder.
I've gone through chronotherapy for my sleep problem, and currently I'm on meds for sleep. But I've been through a sleep clinic if you need advice.
Alice
> I am trying to see if this works!!!
> I want to be part of this website and thread!!
> Kim
Posted by polarbear206 on October 28, 2008, at 15:17:55
In reply to Re: Sleep problems--anxiety-HELP! » Barbara Cat, posted by KimberlyS on October 27, 2008, at 21:47:33
> I am trying to see if this works!!!
> I want to be part of this website and thread!!
> Kim
Still here Kim, Welcome
Posted by DavidJohnPlezzah on October 30, 2008, at 14:29:19
In reply to Cyclothymia & mood stabilizers, posted by andrewb on August 7, 1999, at 10:33:51
I am craving to know more about the angelic mind noise. Barbara Cat most eloquently described my experience. Is she still around here? Is it possible to e-mail someone on this site or do I need to ask an administrator or something?
Posted by KimberlyS on October 31, 2008, at 0:24:00
In reply to Re: Sleep problems--anxiety-HELP!, posted by bipolarized on October 28, 2008, at 11:48:42
> Kim,
>
> Yeah I'm still getting email alerts from this thread.
>
> It works.
>
> Since originally posting on this site I've been told that I don't have cyclothymia or bipolar but that I actually just have a sleep disorder.
>
> I've gone through chronotherapy for my sleep problem, and currently I'm on meds for sleep. But I've been through a sleep clinic if you need advice.
>
> Alice
>
>
> > I am trying to see if this works!!!
> > I want to be part of this website and thread!!
> > Kim
>
>
Thank you for getting back to me!
I am confused however...you say your name is Alice,...are you the same person as "Barbara Cat" who was posting on this site in 2003?
If so, I am so happy to hear from you!!!Please tell me what type of sleep disorder you have! I have been doing so much research and I believe i have a HUGE PROBLEM with my "HPA" axis in my brain. I believe this is causing me to have huge rises in my adrenaline, causing hyperactivity, sugar cravings, mood swings, and no balance in my body temperature. I am frequently cold (and get hot flashes and even worse insomnia and mood swings with my period).
I am sure I have a problem with my adrnenals and my thyroid. I believe ALL of this is causing a severe sleep disorder and no balance in other areas of my body functions when it comes to appetite (all over the place..some days I can go without eating completely, while other days I cant stop eating), body temp changes, hyperactivity and then low energy, etc.
I simply dont know what to do anymore.
I have had an adrenal stress test done and my adrenals do not function normally..and I have low circulating thyroid (in my cells only, as this doesnt show in a blood test, but shows in a saliva test).
PLEASE tell me about your sleep disorder!!!
What is is called? What kind of treatment are u getting? Sleeping pills DO NOT WORK FOR ME.
I also get heart palpitations when my adrenaline goes up from lack of sleep.I also have fibromyalgia (which I believe is a just a symptom of having a sleep and hormone disorder).
Are you "Barbara Cat"??
Thank so much, Alice!
I will await your response!!!
KIM
Posted by DavidJohnPlezzah on October 31, 2008, at 8:20:35
In reply to Re: Sleep problems--anxiety-HELP!, posted by KimberlyS on October 31, 2008, at 0:24:00
Sorry if I confused you Kim, Im LOOKING for Barbara Cat.. I think Alice is Alice
Posted by KimberlyS on October 31, 2008, at 13:23:27
In reply to Re: Sleep problems--anxiety-HELP!, posted by DavidJohnPlezzah on October 31, 2008, at 8:20:35
Yes..
I am also looking for Barbara Cat.
I have no idea if she is still on this site!
I wish someone could find her!
If anyone does..please let me know!
Thanks!In regards to your sleep problem..
did the chronotherapy work for you?
What type of sleep meds are you taking?
Pills never work for me, and I am pretty sure this is due to an underlying hormonal imbalance which has caused the sleep problem.
I dont believe that drugs are the way to go, simply because drugs cannot "put a body back into balance".
I am about to embark on acupuncture..which I have tried for other health issues in the past and it worked amazingly!
Have you ever tried acupuncture?
Tell me how your meds are working for you.
KIM
Posted by KimberlyS on October 31, 2008, at 13:38:16
In reply to Treatment Resistant Depression-Suggestions?, posted by cecilia on November 16, 2006, at 2:56:20
> > As we all know, psychiatric theories come and go and one of the latest seems to be that depression that doesn't respond to AD's must really be bipolar. My question-how many mood stabilizers (and which ones are best) for proving or disapproving this theory? I haven't tried nearly as many mood stabilizers as I have AD's, just gabapentin and lamictal (and a brief trial of lithium, but I didn't like throwing up every morning-if I'm going to have morning sickness I should at least get a baby out of it). Oh, and clonazepam, which I guess is a mood stabilizer in large does, though not in the small dose I take (1.5 mg/day). Is there really any point in trying tons of different mood stabilizers just in case you might be bipolar? I'll have to see if the book Katia mentioned is available from the library. The Amazon review of it was pretty negative, though, and it sounded like it was mainly concerned with alcoholism, which isn't an issue for me. Cecilia
>
> I see I wrote this post a year ago. Since then have been through Marplan and Emsam with negative results. Haven't tried any more mood stabilizers, though I take Neurontin for neuropathy, though I'm not sure it does anything, and still on clonazepam 1.5 mg/day, though I tried doubling the dose for a couple weeks and didn't notice the slighest difference. I read the book "Why Your Depression Isn't Getting Better" and basically the author said if you've only tried mood stabilizers with an AD you haven't really tried them. As far as I can see I have no bipolar symptoms other than anxiety and insomnia and chronic (lifelong) depression. And messed up circadian rhythms, I definitely have that. I was taking Celexa and trazodone when I tried Lamictal, so according to his theory I haven't really tried it. I really can't see trying it again though. I see my doctor Friday and I'm trying to decide what to suggest. He's long since run out of ideas for me and generally goes along with whatever I suggest, though he's supposedly the "expert' on treatment resistant depression at my HMO. After the horrible Emsam effects I said ok, I've tried every AD there is, no more. I'm wondering if I should go with the "anxious atypical TRD is really bipolar theory" and suggest another mood stabilizer trial, perhaps trileptal. I'm very overweight, have diabetes, and arthritis, cannot gain any more weight. Or maybe just concentrate on the anxiety component, see if my doctor would be willing to trial a switch from the useless clonazepam to another benzo, maybe diazepam, though I'm not sure he'd be willing to do that. The third possibility is one more AD, Prozac, in a very small dose, when I 1st tried it in 1990 only the 20 mg capsules were available and the anxiety/ insomnia were horrendous, but maybe a 5 mg dose would be tolerable, though I can't see why it would help if no other AD has. Any suggestions? Anyone found Lamictal more helpful alone than with an AD? It certainly wasn't like the Celexa and trazodone I was taking it with were making me manic! I do not respond well to stimulating drugs, though, so maybe the increased anxiety/insomnia that so many other AD's have caused in me really are subtle signs of mania. The endless Abilfy advertisements keep trying to convince everyone they really must be bipolar and Abilify is the solution but I'm terrifed of the agitation/anxiety it's supposed to cause. A brief trial of Zyprexa years ago had no benefit and in general I really would rather avoid AP's. CeciliaWOW!!!I was simply SHOCKED at the number of drugs so many people here are on for depression, anxiety and insomnia. I cant believe it..it almost kills me to think about having myself on all of those drugs. I should be thankful that drugs have never worked for me, or I wouldnt have looked deeper into the cause of my health issues, which have included severe insomnia, anxiety and mood swings.I simply want to say that I am taking the "allow my body to heal itself with the proper nervous system and endrocrine stimulation" with acupuncture and all natural supplements that will serve to put my body back into a normal state of balance. (I remind myself that my body was born to find it's own homeostastis, naturally..and without drugs.)
I believe everyone and anyone who is suffering from mood swings, insomnia, anxiety, etc needs to LOOK AT THEIR DIET, their outlook on life, the amount of time they feel at peace with the simple things in their life, and the amount of gratitude for the little things in life that one has as well...even while feeling depressed! If we can start with those important things, I truly believe that one's life can CHANGE IMMENSELY.
Has anyone here ever tried hypnotherapy or acupuncture? I am about the embark on acupuncture for my sleeping problems..which are SEVERE!!!
It always worked for me with other health issues in the past! It is truly a miracle healing technique!
I wish everyone the best of health, always...
Kimberly
Posted by bipolarized on November 1, 2008, at 12:45:29
In reply to Re: Sleep problems--anxiety-HELP!, posted by KimberlyS on October 31, 2008, at 13:23:27
Clonzepam (Klonapin) as a sleep med is working for now. It's not ideal, and I don't intend to continue using it forever. I'm actually waiting for the next 2 week holiday off-work, so I can re-try the chronotherapy.
The chrono therapy was beginning to work for me, but you really have to stick to the rules. Which are to use the lights (special green lights that are like the sun) for 1 hour upon waking and no longer. Also, each night/day you have to force yourself to stay awake 3 hours beyond the natural time you'd fall asleep (for me naturally I'll fall asleep around sunrise). This is the hardest part, because if you're sleep deprived it's very hard to resist an urge to sleep for 3 hours without using caffiene or stimulants.
Basically Chronotherapy I think CAN work but only if you have a Sleep Medicine Doctor supervising and advising you. Also, only if you are eating healthy and getting a little excersize.
The goal of Chronotherapy is to re-set your inner circadian rhythm (or natural sleep clock). To set it at a more work freiendly pattern.
Just know that you have to be careful to strictly have 2-3 hours of down time each night before you are to fall asleep, where you are doing nothing much other than relaxing. Occaisionally you may have certain days when you have to be awake late for a party or something else, and that can throw your clock back out of wack. So, you have to committ to the re-set pattern once you're re-set.
Anyway, I'm a fan of ChronoTherapy when used under sleep medicine doctor care, not regular doctors. Regular doctors in my experience tend not to really understand sleep disorders.
My reality is that I am aspiring towards a natural solution to my sleep disorder (chronotherapy over X-mas break again), but will most likely have some sleep meds in my medicince cabinet as back up "just in case" on those nights when I can't natually sleep within my pattern.
As for Klonapin, I take 3mg per night along with one Diphenhydromine (Longs drugstore sleep aide like Sominex). And to be honest once in awhile I'll have a glass of wine with it, which I'm sure is unhealthy, but sure feels good.
I have noticed the Klonapin is working less and less, building a tolerance---so I'm hopeing to stop after my new Chronotherapy in Dec.
In the past I've tried every sleep med under the sun:
Ambian: didn't like it, it works but tolerance builds fast and you walk around your house at night while asleep.
Temezepam: LOVED it! but it's addictive and a narcotic. It has the side effect of euphoria which for me ended up causing me to pop it like tic-tacs during my undergrad years in Chicago (I took subways luckily and never drove). Tolerance builds fast but it works for sleep beutifully. Just major danger of addiction. Plus you slur your words and look like a junkie.
Depakene: Allergic reaction w/ paradoxical effect---caused suicidal depression in 1 week
Gabapentin: Allergic reaction w/ paradoxical effect---caused suicidal depression in 2 days
Xanex--didn't really help for sleep, but fun to be on!
Trazadone: Allergic reaction w/ paradoxical effect of causing me to be super hyper.
Hope all this helps a little.
Also, check out the following links which I found helpful.
https://psynomics.com/contact.php
You can pay $300 for a genetic test that will tell you if you are bipolar, or if you would respond well to certain anti-depressants. I took the bipolar gentic test and I didn't have the markers indicating that 99.9% I'm not bipolarhttp://www.sleepfoundation.org
National Sleep Foundation
Where you can do a search for a local Sleep Medicine Doctor.
Posted by bipolarized on November 1, 2008, at 12:50:02
In reply to Re: Sleep problems--anxiety-HELP!, posted by DavidJohnPlezzah on October 31, 2008, at 8:20:35
yeah Alice is Alice
AKA bipolarized
Posted by bipolarized on November 1, 2008, at 12:58:39
In reply to Re: Sleep problems--anxiety-HELP!, posted by KimberlyS on October 31, 2008, at 0:24:00
Kim,
My specific sleep disorder is called:
Delayed Sleep Phase Disorder
AKA--if not on meds I'd naturally go to sleep around sunrise and wake up around 2pm-5pm. Which doesn't work well if you have a day job.
My father was bipolar so I am forever on the lookout for signs that I might have tendancies, which is why I ended up in this cyclothymia thread since a year ago I wasn't sure.
I've since gotten a Sleep Medicine doctor, and attended talk-individual therapy sessions for 8 months where we discovered I am not bipolar. Also, I took a genetic test (which is somewhat in it's infancy but has some valid science behind it) I'll put a link in another reply later.
Essentially though, from hearing about your symptoms my advice would be to contact a doctor who specializes in sleep. There are a growing number of Sleep Medicine Clinics or Institutes in America and you can usually research the Doctor's credentials online to make sure they're good.
If you're in California near the Bay Area I can reccomend some great Sleep Centers, but otherwise you can use searches on the National Sleep Foundation website to locate sleep docs in your area.
Regular doctors and psychiatrists will NOT be able to correctly diagnose you without collaboration with a sleep expert. So, push whatever insurance you have to get you a sleep institute referral. My psychiatrist made the referral for me, so luckily my insurance covered my trips to the Sleep Institute in my area.
Posted by KimberlyS on November 6, 2008, at 22:36:05
In reply to Re: Sleep problems--anxiety-HELP!, posted by bipolarized on November 1, 2008, at 12:58:39
Thanks so much for writing!
I have since decided to see an endocrinologist who specializes in Pituitary disorders, because I have an idea that I might have a pituitary tumour, which CAUSES sleep disorders, headaches, body temp imbalances, mood swings, severe PMS, heavy periods, lack of concentration, low thyroid, ear pain, and many more symptoms.
I have all of these symptoms..and my sleep disorder began at age 14, after 3 years of anorexia, at the age(s) of 10-13.
I have had all the other symptoms over the past 20 years...and my life has been a LIVING HELL. I havent been able to do ANYTHING with my life (I am now 40), due to rarely ever feeling well.
I dont have insurance, because I obviously cannot hold down a job so I am going to go to a community hospital and pray that they will send me to a specialist when they hear my case.
I have so much body pain, headaches, ear pain, insomnia, etc. My life sucks because of it, but I always keep a positive attitude and have gratitude for the little things in my life!
Does/Has anyone else on this site ever had (or have) any of the symptoms I have listed?
Does anyone know of anyone who ever had a pituitary tumour??
Hope to hear from any of u!!!
Kim:)
Posted by bipolarized on November 7, 2008, at 0:04:21
In reply to Re: Sleep problems--anxiety-HELP!, posted by KimberlyS on November 6, 2008, at 22:36:05
Glad to hear it sounds like you're on the right track. Good luck with the health insurance issues! I'm sure they will help if you are polite and yet agressively advocate for yourself enough.
I"ve not personally heard of any disorders such as you mention, but others might.
Good luck!
Posted by KimberlyS on November 7, 2008, at 0:59:30
In reply to Re: Sleep problems--anxiety-HELP!, posted by bipolarized on November 7, 2008, at 0:04:21
Hi everyone..
I hope everyone is doing well and finding all the help they need.
I joined this board because of my symptoms of having delayed sleep phase disorder.
It has not been my only health issue though.
For the last 20 years, I have had many other health symptoms, which basically come down to looking as if it might have to do with my pituitary,thyroid&adrenals causing all the problems for me. Just to inform everyone..many mental health issues are affected by the thyroid!
Having thyroid,adrenal and/or pituitary disorders causes mental symptoms that show up as depression, anxiety, insomnia, bad PMS, etc. I have been dealing with my symptoms for over 20 years now..and I am now at the point where I simply CANNOT LIVE THIS WAY ANYMORE.
MY SOUL MISSION IN LIFE IS TO GET WELL AND THEN TO HELP OTHERS TO DO THE SAME!!!
Please let me know if anyone out there is having thyroid symptoms (you can look those symptoms up online under thyroid disorders) that are also causing depression, anxiety and insomnia.
I look forward to hearing from anyone and everyone!
May we all find GOOD HEALTH and be able to LIVE OUR LIVES TO THE FULLEST AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!!!
Kimberly
Posted by zzzzhunt on December 27, 2008, at 15:53:34
In reply to Re: Sleep problems--anxiety-HELP!, posted by bipolarized on November 7, 2008, at 0:04:21
This looks like a good thread.
I found it while researching connections between thyroid issues and delayed sleep phase diorder. Too bad we have to almost get an unofficial MD degree because its impossible to find a Doc who does anything besides medicating our symptoms.
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.