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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on August 17, 2009, at 7:42:34
I was wondering about this. The moment you start the AD merry go around, it's difficult to know what's the effects and side effects of the meds and what is your depression and personality. And then a med might poop out or give you undesireable lasting effects or side effects. I know personally that I feel much worse off after having been on a couple of AD's and can't get back to my pre-med state. I'm in a bad place, but I'm not sure I wanna try anymore meds if they poop out in a few weeks, months or years anyway. Psychotherapy can't cut it either though. Just feel screwed. Wish I'd never gone down that route, feel souless.
Posted by SLS on August 17, 2009, at 8:45:28
In reply to Meds preventing chronic remession?, posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on August 17, 2009, at 7:42:34
> I was wondering about this. The moment you start the AD merry go around, it's difficult to know what's the effects and side effects of the meds and what is your depression and personality. And then a med might poop out or give you undesireable lasting effects or side effects. I know personally that I feel much worse off after having been on a couple of AD's and can't get back to my pre-med state. I'm in a bad place, but I'm not sure I wanna try anymore meds if they poop out in a few weeks, months or years anyway. Psychotherapy can't cut it either though. Just feel screwed. Wish I'd never gone down that route, feel souless.
These psychotropic drugs that we use are extremely powerful. I don't doubt that they can have long-lasting effects, even after discontinued. The other thing that one must consider in their deliberation over the cost of treatment is that mood disorders tend to worsen over time, even in the absence of drug treatment.
You are in a difficult position. You are convinced that drugs made you worse, yet there seem to be few alternatives but to seek treatment in order for your being able to build a rewarding life for yourself. Of course one alternative is to decline treatment. I don't see how it can hurt you too much to go without treatment for awhile and see where your system settles.
The subject line that you posted raises a great question. I believe that multiple exposures to the same drug can make one less responsive to it. However, I am not so sure about it producing refractoriness to other drugs (cross poop-out). One of my more brilliant doctors cautioned me a long time ago to stay as "clean" as possible and not take drugs unless they are in some way novel compared to those I had already tried. At some point, you begin to ask yourself what choice do you really have. Is it worth waiting your life away and remaining as drug-naive as possible, or do you attempt to treat a condition that keeps getting worse with the passage of time?
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on August 17, 2009, at 10:52:31
In reply to Re: Meds preventing chronic remession? » Alexanderfromdenmark, posted by SLS on August 17, 2009, at 8:45:28
Scott question who are the many people IRL that seem to take a med for a while and then go off and no more ever. My own Son and one Daughter did this? Do we psychologically forget what it's like not to swallow pills or do we really need them? It's a dilemma. Love Phillipa
Posted by bleauberry on August 17, 2009, at 17:47:07
In reply to Meds preventing chronic remession?, posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on August 17, 2009, at 7:42:34
I can't explain why, but I have concluded that blocking the reuptake pump is a bad thing to do.
If you try to find someone who has had a very good longterm prognosis with this approach, it is very difficult to do so.
To the contrary, their stories usually get worse and more bizarre over the years. Even stranger, the more meds they add, the worse they get. Or at best, the more numb they get. Or they fix one problem but replace it with new ones.
To be fair, a small percentage of people do quite well. Very small.
I see people like all of us, many of them worse, doing much better with other approaches, but that is a different topic.
With a 15 year history of psych meds myself, and a 15 year period of lurking and participating here, I cannot help but conclude longterm consequences of reuptake inhibitors are almost never good.
Posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on August 18, 2009, at 6:16:54
In reply to Re: Meds preventing chronic remession? » Alexanderfromdenmark, posted by SLS on August 17, 2009, at 8:45:28
> > I was wondering about this. The moment you start the AD merry go around, it's difficult to know what's the effects and side effects of the meds and what is your depression and personality. And then a med might poop out or give you undesireable lasting effects or side effects. I know personally that I feel much worse off after having been on a couple of AD's and can't get back to my pre-med state. I'm in a bad place, but I'm not sure I wanna try anymore meds if they poop out in a few weeks, months or years anyway. Psychotherapy can't cut it either though. Just feel screwed. Wish I'd never gone down that route, feel souless.
>
> These psychotropic drugs that we use are extremely powerful. I don't doubt that they can have long-lasting effects, even after discontinued. The other thing that one must consider in their deliberation over the cost of treatment is that mood disorders tend to worsen over time, even in the absence of drug treatment.
>
> You are in a difficult position. You are convinced that drugs made you worse, yet there seem to be few alternatives but to seek treatment in order for your being able to build a rewarding life for yourself. Of course one alternative is to decline treatment. I don't see how it can hurt you too much to go without treatment for awhile and see where your system settles.
>
> The subject line that you posted raises a great question. I believe that multiple exposures to the same drug can make one less responsive to it. However, I am not so sure about it producing refractoriness to other drugs (cross poop-out). One of my more brilliant doctors cautioned me a long time ago to stay as "clean" as possible and not take drugs unless they are in some way novel compared to those I had already tried. At some point, you begin to ask yourself what choice do you really have. Is it worth waiting your life away and remaining as drug-naive as possible, or do you attempt to treat a condition that keeps getting worse with the passage of time?
>
>
> - ScottI believe they conducted something called the Star*D* study in the US funded by the goverment. I think they concluded that only 1/3 had a positive response to first line antidepressants and only 1/3 of these would not relapse again in the 1st or 2nd year. Maybe I didn't get it quite right, but it was a major study and one of the few that wasn't biased by pharma funding.
Posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on August 18, 2009, at 6:55:49
In reply to Re: Meds preventing chronic remession?, posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on August 18, 2009, at 6:16:54
Here was something I was talking about.
Posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on August 20, 2009, at 8:40:21
In reply to Meds preventing chronic remession?, posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on August 17, 2009, at 7:42:34
Sorry forgot to post the link
http://psychrights.org/research/Digest/AntiDepressants/DrJackson/JacksonSSRIs.htm
Posted by morganator on August 20, 2009, at 21:28:26
In reply to Re: Meds preventing chronic remession?, posted by bleauberry on August 17, 2009, at 17:47:07
So do you believe that inhibiting MAO A and B enzymes over time is less likely to cause some form of long term damage?
I know inhibiting MAO B may be a good thing for our brains this can prevent the breakdown of dopamine. This could be one argument for being on an MAOI.
This is the end of the thread.
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