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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 31. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Beckett on March 5, 2012, at 18:05:03
If so, what medications are working as antidepressants and analgesics? I am trying to keep my medications minimal as possible. Fatigue is a major symptom. Right now I am on emsam and want to convince myself then my doc that an ssri might give me more flexibility for pain management. I have 100 mg of topiramate on board as mood stabilizer and pain relief.
Cymbalta, savella, and lyrica are out. I respond well to effexor, but worry it might be destabilizing. Plus my doc may say yikes! Ultram ER was good when I last took it about a year ago. I was thinking that and a light ssri like viibryd...?
How do you manage? My depressions can get pretty bad....
Posted by Phillipa on March 5, 2012, at 21:19:21
In reply to Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression?, posted by Beckett on March 5, 2012, at 18:05:03
Beckett I understand the wanting the flexibility and safety of an SSRI but isn't the emsam what helped depression? I thought you got the dose just right? Didn't you post once you did well on effexor? Phillipa
Posted by sigismund on March 6, 2012, at 0:45:21
In reply to Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression?, posted by Beckett on March 5, 2012, at 18:05:03
>How do you manage?
Ha!
So boswellia cut the pain by some decent percent but there is more than enough left, or more has arrived?
Maybe SSRIs will disturb your sleep as much as your low dose Emsam?
Out of interest, why is Cymbalta out?
Naturally my preference is for old fashioned drugs which are only abused by the irresponsible.
Will Ultram keep working long term? (Does anything?)
Geez, I dunno.
Posted by Beckett on March 6, 2012, at 0:58:38
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression? » Beckett, posted by sigismund on March 6, 2012, at 0:45:21
There are many stars charted under the constellation fibromyalgia. Disabling fatigue is one. Surprises keep arriving.
Cymbalta makes me sicker.
Nothing works long term as far as I can tell including the human body.
Posted by sigismund on March 6, 2012, at 12:36:28
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression? » sigismund, posted by Beckett on March 6, 2012, at 0:58:38
Well there were no surprises here. I think SODzyme gave me insomnia.
http://www.lef.org/protocols/immune_connective_joint/fibromyalgia_01.htm
You can get that stuff that is supposed to boost ATP. Tomotheus was taking it at one point. Some of those natural ways of boosting energy don't feel too good, like benfotiamine. It is supposed to treat neurasthenia.
Posted by sigismund on March 6, 2012, at 12:40:07
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression? » Beckett, posted by sigismund on March 6, 2012, at 12:36:28
Naturally this was of interest..........
According to the newest research, it is a disease characterized by central sensitization of the spinal cord and central nervous system (Bennett R 2005; Gerwin RD 2005). This sensitization may occur because of inflammatory cytokines that trigger inducible nitric oxide synthase (INOS) in muscle tissue. The INOS causes inappropriate stimulation of pain receptors and an increase in oxidants such as the peroxynitrite radical and other reactive oxygen species.
Posted by Beckett on March 6, 2012, at 13:36:58
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression? » Beckett, posted by sigismund on March 6, 2012, at 12:36:28
>http://www.lef.org/protocols/immune_connective_joint/fibromyalgia_01.htm
>
> You can get that stuff that is supposed to boost ATP. Tomotheus was taking it at one point. Some of those natural ways of boosting energy don't feel too good, like benfotiamine. It is supposed to treat neurasthenia.thanks for the link. It was good to review. I can easily add blueberries to my diet. I'm pretty good on the omegas. Didn't
know about the malic acid. True, some of the alt ways of boosting energy are intolerable. I have to be careful. What was it--oh, glutatamate or something like it was given to me by a doctor. It was like poison to me. Took me a few weeks to figure it out.My hope is that there is the remission factor. For now, I seem to be worsening. I get frightened. The fatigue is the worst. If it was pain alone, I would arm wrestle my docs for pain pills, but I have some old hydrocodiene which I take very sparingly to avoid dependence but it does not touch the fatigue. It also does very little toward that creeping level of despair.
To get a doctor to take this seriously is difficult. A hormone panel as suggested in the link would be great. II would need to find a reliable alt doc I imagine. Most docs here look at my history and say she's just depressed, etc, etc. Or fibromyalgia, take two aleve, walk every day and see me in three months (as one doc really said to me for $750).
Posted by Beckett on March 6, 2012, at 14:16:07
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression?, posted by sigismund on March 6, 2012, at 12:40:07
To adequately describe the fatigue, it's mental dullness, too, an inability to focus, a massive loss of IQ points. It f*cks with long and short term memory storage and working memory. My tolerance for stress, even happy stress gets blown up. It sucks it sucks it sucks.
See? And I live with one of the liveliest, most enthusiastic young fellows on the planet. I want to enjoy him.
Posted by Phillipa on March 6, 2012, at 18:44:09
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression?, posted by Beckett on March 6, 2012, at 14:16:07
Goggle your area and bioidentical hormone theraphy. As I'm sure there is a doc that does either saliva, blood or both? Phillipa
Posted by Beckett on March 6, 2012, at 22:34:20
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression? » Beckett, posted by Phillipa on March 6, 2012, at 18:44:09
Thanks for the suggestion, Phillipa. I don't understand enough about hormones so feel reticent to try that at this point. I would like to find a reputable alt/western doc.
Posted by Beckett on March 6, 2012, at 22:43:44
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression?, posted by Beckett on March 6, 2012, at 22:34:20
Phillipa, by reputable alt/western doc I meant an all-around sort of doctor rather than an hormone specialist.... Maybe one who would know enough to look at hormones or enough at least to farm that part out to someone.
Posted by sigismund on March 6, 2012, at 23:12:48
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression?, posted by sigismund on March 6, 2012, at 12:40:07
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1476-9255/5/9
Speaking of inflammatory cytokines.
LEF has a sale on pomegranate right now, $6 a bottle.
I thought that spinal chord thing was interesting because of your cesar and what went with it.
Posted by Phillipa on March 6, 2012, at 23:58:39
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression?, posted by sigismund on March 6, 2012, at 23:12:48
Sigi you can help alternative. PJx
Posted by Beckett on March 7, 2012, at 8:28:44
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression?, posted by sigismund on March 6, 2012, at 23:12:48
> http://www.biomedcentral.com/1476-9255/5/9
>
> Speaking of inflammatory cytokines.
>
> LEF has a sale on pomegranate right now, $6 a bottle.
Oh sigi, the link is down. I don't understand cytokines, but I have some time today to do some research. LEF recommended blueberry extract. Is that not the same thing as pomegranate sort of? Thank you.
Posted by Beckett on March 7, 2012, at 12:32:15
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression? » sigismund, posted by Beckett on March 7, 2012, at 8:28:44
The link is working now. Thank you.
Posted by sigismund on March 7, 2012, at 13:33:25
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression?, posted by Beckett on March 7, 2012, at 12:32:15
Tumour necrosis alpha is one cytokine. Nice name.
Posted by Phillipa on March 7, 2012, at 18:49:07
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression?, posted by sigismund on March 7, 2012, at 13:33:25
Sigi so what do you take? PJ
Posted by sigismund on March 7, 2012, at 19:10:44
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression? » sigismund, posted by Phillipa on March 7, 2012, at 18:49:07
>Sigi so what do you take?
Well, I haven't been particularly successful, you know, so I am reluctant to recommend anything, but what interests me is stuff like curcumin, grape seed and resveratrol, pomegranate, boswellia and stuff like that. If only because I have arthritis (curcumin, boswellia).
Posted by Phillipa on March 7, 2012, at 21:05:38
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression? » Phillipa, posted by sigismund on March 7, 2012, at 19:10:44
Sigi definitely have arthritis no trampolines anymore, and back degenerative spurs, stenosis, getting old isn't for the weak. I wear an elasticised wrap to ride bike take it off and I feel my backbone collapse. And that is it for me. And I need to do so much. Spare parts are what I need. PJ
Posted by bleauberry on March 8, 2012, at 16:05:17
In reply to Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression?, posted by Beckett on March 5, 2012, at 18:05:03
For the depression:
Rhodiola Rosea or
Rhodiola rosea + Puerarin.In addition to that, I believe any kind of potential success in treating FM, CFS, or lyme....which all look very similar to each other....needs a multiangle approach. That includes:
antimicrobials
antiinflammatories
antitoxins
proimmune
treat symptomsMost people only do the last on that list. Doing them all I believe greatly improves the chances of success.
A sample cocktail might be something like,
chlorella, garlic to tolerance, berberine plants, japanese knotweed, cat's claw, HH capsule. A good choice of others as well. Many of these cover the entire list of strategies all in one.So anyway, I do not have strong faith in using only pharamceuticals or in treating only symptoms. Certainly try what you can to improve quality of life in the short run and if that means meds that's fine. It's just that they can work a lot better with the herbs and foster an improved longterm effect, in addition to removing or resisting the actual hidden disease states causing it all.
So ok, I have failed almost every med you can name, a ton of herbs and supplements, and failed ECT, multiple doctors, a couple decades, tens of thousands of dollars, and guess what, my best antidepressants ended up being things like antibiotics, antitoxins, and antiinflammatories.
We just don't know enough at this time in history. But even if we don't know exactly what we have, why it is, or how it happens, we know things that can work based on clinical experiences.
> If so, what medications are working as antidepressants and analgesics? I am trying to keep my medications minimal as possible. Fatigue is a major symptom. Right now I am on emsam and want to convince myself then my doc that an ssri might give me more flexibility for pain management. I have 100 mg of topiramate on board as mood stabilizer and pain relief.
>
> Cymbalta, savella, and lyrica are out. I respond well to effexor, but worry it might be destabilizing. Plus my doc may say yikes! Ultram ER was good when I last took it about a year ago. I was thinking that and a light ssri like viibryd...?
>
> How do you manage? My depressions can get pretty bad....
Posted by Beckett on March 8, 2012, at 17:56:55
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression?, posted by bleauberry on March 8, 2012, at 16:05:17
>We just don't know enough at this time in history. But even if we don't know exactly what we have, why it is, or how it happens, we know things that can work based on clinical experiences.
Yes, I think so. Very agreed. Thanks BB. I appreciate your input.
What is an HH capsule?
I have a few herbals/supplements onboard or in the queue. I have to take it easy with those and introduce them slowly. They can be pretty strong, though not in the obvious way of a pharmaceutical.
Posted by sigismund on March 8, 2012, at 18:08:45
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression?, posted by bleauberry on March 8, 2012, at 16:05:17
>Puerarin.
What's that? Not something to do with puera tea? I will look it up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerarin
It's kudzu, useful to cut the desire for drink. among other things.
Posted by sigismund on March 8, 2012, at 18:14:18
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression?, posted by sigismund on March 8, 2012, at 18:08:45
>Puerarin is a 5-HT2C receptor and benzodiazepine site antagonist.[2]
They must mean bzd agonist? It is calming.
On a bottle I have: 'In TCM, pueraria releases the muscles and clears the heat.'
Posted by Beckett on March 8, 2012, at 18:22:23
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression?, posted by sigismund on March 8, 2012, at 18:14:18
> >Puerarin is a 5-HT2C receptor and benzodiazepine site antagonist.[2]
>
> They must mean bzd agonist? It is calming.
>
> On a bottle I have: 'In TCM, pueraria releases the muscles and clears the heat.'Maybe not. Maybe an antagonist. Sometimes it works flippy floppy. I am way beyond my knowledge limit here :)
Thanks for highlighting this....
Posted by Beckett on March 8, 2012, at 18:23:41
In reply to Re: Anyone else managing fibromyalgia + depression?, posted by sigismund on March 8, 2012, at 18:14:18
I recall kudzu flour being stirred into a tea and given to children.
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