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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 15 to 39 of 39. Go back in thread:
Posted by SLS on September 26, 2012, at 6:20:16
In reply to Re: I'm in trouble » ChicagoKat, posted by jane d on September 26, 2012, at 5:26:17
Hi Jane.
I think your first paragraph set a tone that I immediately reacted to in a negative manner, such that I was tempted to post a reply to. I decided to watch rather than post to see where things went. I still don't fully understand that first paragraph, and I was hoping you would explain it at some point.
"Give the guy a break. It seems to me he is supporting you in what you said you wanted to do."
Perhaps I misunderstand what Kat's husband was supporting. I thought that it was Kat's plan to commit suicide that her husband was particularly willing to support.
In spite of your opening paragraph, I thought your second paragraph offered very important insights that I wish I had thought of myself.
------------------------------
Dear ChicagoKat,
Please correct me if I am wrong. Also, it would be helpful if you were to share your thoughts and feelings so that we might better understand you and the situation you find yourself in. Considering your proximity to committing suicide, doing so might provide the support and coping strategies that you need right now.
- Scott
Posted by ChicagoKat on September 26, 2012, at 6:30:53
In reply to Re: I'm in trouble » ChicagoKat, posted by AlexCanada on September 26, 2012, at 3:51:10
> Your husband does not sound like he cares at all. It sounds like he has given up on you but it's important that you do not give up on yourself. For him to so easily comply with plans for ''departure'' and even suggest to write it all down does make me agree with you that he is very heartless.
>
> Some people may say couples therapy etc but the reality is that a monster cannot just suddenly start loving you, let alone grow empathy. Confronting this in a realistic rather than an idealistic sense would do you more good in the long run. He really does seem like he simply does not care about you at all. His reactions speak volumes. What can be done about it? In time if you feel better on a particular medication maybe you can move on with your life without him. He already has clearly stated he is willing to move on without you. To him he may feel as if you are already gone. He does not love you but at least you know it and recognize it as such. Someone so heartless. ''Through sickness and in health'' is supossed to mean something.
>
> I been dealing with strong melancholic dep for a decade as well and at various times used to believe it was unlikely for me to ever have any sort of realistic love life but such thoughts stem from being unhealthy. At times I was even involved with a girl whom treated me like dirt but I put up with it because she was the only person in my life. But she was dependent on me due to her own issues and never really truly cared. Life can become stagnant around such people and prevent progress.
>
> Certain medications would lift me out of such darkness. Whether it was Parnate, Paxil, Ritalin, Gabapentin, Emsam, Rhodiola Rosea... it would allow some for some sense of possible acceptance despite my strong depression, and with acceptance would come possibily for relationships which previously seemed impossible. The negative cloud can lift and everything which may tell you to give up is just the chemical inbalance giving you the wrong message.
>
> Try to fight it as best you can as there are always other medical options available if Nardil doesn't cut it so please do not give up on yourself.
>
> What is your diagnosis and how would you describe your symptoms?
>
>
>
> > I'm in my washout before I start Nardil. I have a week left and my mind and body are giving up. Tonight I talked to me husband and I asked, what if the Nardil doesn't work? It's worked for me in the past, but it seems every drug I've ever taken doesn't work for me anymore. Not even advil. I told him I can't feel like this the rest of my life and if the Nardil doesn't work we'll have to very carefully plan my death. His response? He told me to write down everything I want done and to make a copy of it for him. No sympathy, no love, no caring, no support. I'm married to an emotionless monster. No wonder I'm so depressed. I've been having dreams of when I was happy, when I had boyfriends who were fun and who made me laugh. I'm in hell.
>
>Thank you so much for your heartfelt and honest reply, Alex. Ironically, my husband is from Canada too. Anyways, I know I probably need to move on, but I'm just too sick to do so now. Not to mention I'm on disability and dependent on him financially. It seems like no matter what I do, no matter what choices I make, even though I try to think them through very carefully and rationally, I end up screwing my life up. And I don't have a lot of life left at age 47 now.
Hopefully the Nardil will work and I can figure things out.
I feel so bad for you, it sounds like you've been through hell too. Oh, I'm diagnosed with MDD - severe and treatment resistant. I hope you find something that helps you. Don't you give up either! There has to be something for each of us that will be the answer. Hang in there, and if you ever want to talk, I am here
Kat
Posted by ChicagoKat on September 26, 2012, at 6:37:25
In reply to Re: I'm in trouble » ChicagoKat, posted by jane d on September 26, 2012, at 5:26:17
> > > Give the guy a break. It seems to me he is supporting you in what you said you wanted to do. If what you is for him to tell you that you don't know what you're talking about and to reassure you that things will get better then you need to say that to him instead. And I'm guessing that if he did say those things instead right now you'd be angry that he didn't understand how awful you felt.
> > > You probably aren't in a position to judge what his feelings about anything are right now. Most people would probably tell you not to make big decisions like quitting a job or selling a house in your current state of mind. That goes double for making important judgments about what the people closest to you are thinking or feeling. As impossible as it seems you have to try to keep a little bit of distance from your emotions right now. Perhaps picking a date - after the washout and after time for the nardil to start working - when you will allow yourself to feel these things might help you avoid getting overwhelmed by them right now
> > >
> > Well that didn't help. If I had read your post last night I would probably be dead now. You have NO IDEA what my marriage is like and what it's been like even when I was feeling good. You'd do best to stay out of other people's business, especially when it comes to something like a cry for help when someone is suicidal. They should ALWAYS be taken seriously. I wasn't kidding last night, I really felt like there was no way out but to die, obviously you have never felt that way. I came on here as a cry for help, and luckily I read your completely non-helpful answer today when I was feeling better. Luckily I had read Juno's response last night and it helped me get through the night. PLEASE do not respond anymore to posters who are suicidal, you could very well cause their death.
> >
>
> You seem to have completely misunderstood my post. I have no idea whether your husband is a jerk or a saint. If you'd chosen to ask for clarification, instead of just attacking me, you might have spared yourself some unhappiness.
>
>
I'm in no state to try to read between lines or ask for clarification. If you read through your post maybe you will see the lack of caring for the fact that I was suicidal and was crying for help. I'm sorry if I misunderstood you (I still don't understand what you were trying to say), and I'm sorry I attacked you; I was just very upset and emotional at the time, which happens when a person is going through a washout. Let's please just forget about the whole thing and move on. I wish you well
Kat
Posted by ChicagoKat on September 26, 2012, at 7:12:11
In reply to Re: I'm in trouble » AlexCanada, posted by SLS on September 26, 2012, at 5:57:12
> I agree with the sentiments of others that there is something wrong with your marriage relationship. We, here, cannot really know the dynamics of your relationship and identify potential contributions of you and your husband towards your current crisis of feelings.
>
> As for me, I can appreciate the frustration and exaspiration that a husband can experience when acting as a caretaker for his wife, especially when children need caretaking, too. However, something is very wrong when a husband agrees to help his wife to commit suicide, especially while she is in a depressive state. Fortunately, there are resources that one can use to work through those psychosocial issues that exist within the marriage, including the psyche of each individual. If your husband is willing to go for marriage counseling, I would urge you to take advantage of this opportunity. Eventually, this counseling might lead to some individual treatment.
>
> One day, while taking reboxetine, I told my parents that I needed to get my affairs in order. I told them that I wanted to hide as much money as possible so that I could bequeath it to family members rather than have it consumed by the state to pay for my burial. They listened to every word I said and made no attempt to act on this infomation. They pretty much just said "Okay". WTF? It became obvious to me that they were burned-out. They had nothing left to deal with my illness as adults. So, I imagine they used denial as a mechanism against the truth that their son was to commit suicide. By that time, they might have been numb and areactive so as to prevent the bubble of denial to burst.
>
> Of course, there is the possibility that, as adults, they truly thought that I would be better dead than alive. However, they didn't so much as ask me a single question nor attempt to suggest that I go for help as an immediate intervention. Oh, well. The thing is, I knew they cared. They tried. However, after 35 years of unremitting severe depression and academic and vocational failure they may have become desensitized.
>
> ChicagoKat, you can't blame yourself and you can't blame your husband, regardless of the outcome of your marital crisis. There is cause and effect. Your husband might have been emotionally abused or neglected, or even bullied as a child. So, is he truly responsible for turning out to be the person he has become? However, the immediate issue is not about his past. It is about yours. It is about you and the history of your relationship with your husband past and present. How can you change the course of your life to make a better future for yourself? Given that there are children to consider, the question, "Should I stay or should I go?", becomes immensely difficult to deliberate.
>
> I think it makes sense to set as your first priority the treatment of your psychobiological illness. At the same time, you could use individual psychotherapy to begin to reconcile your past and honestly evaluate your thoughts and feelings about the present that you don't want and the future that you do want. After the passage of a relatively short period of time, I would then urge your husband to join you in couples counselling using the same psychotherapist.
>
> I wish the best for you. I don't know what that is, though.
>
> If you had your choice do act today, knowing that the dynamics within your marriage would never change, what would you do?
>
> Hint: Suicide is not an option.
>
>
> - ScottScott,
Thanks for your response. Your words brought tears to my eyes b/c it seems our situations are so similar. The only difference being I don't have children. I wish I did, but I'd probably just screw them up b/c I'm so depressed and the cycle would never end. I have suffered from decades of depression. It used to respond to meds, but a year and a half ago they gave out on me. Then I tried ECT. What a nightmare. Not only did it not help, it made things worse. I still have flashbacks to it and bad dreams about it. My therapist says I am suffering from PTSD from it.
Anyways, I have absolutely the best therapist in the world. She sees me 3x per week and only chargest one co pay. And she is there for me day and night. She really cares, and is really getting to the root of my depression which began from a Mom who never showed she loved me - I can't remember her ever hugging me, but I can remember her yelling at me, even at a very young age to stop crying. Plus there was the fact that my Dad was an alcoholic, and the fact that they were going through a very nasty divorce when I was young. I'll never forget the fighting. I often ask myself, and my therapist, why is it that I succumbed so badly to all of this? There are plenty of people out there who had it bad, if not worse, during childhood, and they are fine. My brother is a case in point. He is a bit eccentric, but otherwise fine,and very successful.My therapist says I was just predisposed to reacting to all the negativity badly..that I am so sensitive that I took it all to heart, plus I was the peacemaker of the family. I always, even when I was 4, tried to stop my parents fighting. And, still at that young age, I tried to make my Mom feel better when she was crying. It should have been the other way around. My therapist says since I was the eldest I tried to shield my brother from it all, and he has told me he just ignored it all. Wish I had done so.
So anyways, long story short, I'm a mess. I really hope the Nardil helps. But I have a suspicion it's the psychotherapy that's really gonna help in the long run. It may take years, but it is more than just a band aid for my problems.
I have come to the conclusion that I married a man who is emotionally distant and non-nurturing just like my Mother. He has agreed to go to counseling and we are going to see my therapist together on Saturday. He does have lots of other wonderful qualities (most important of which is he does not beat the sh*t out of me like my 1st husband did) but I need somone who can be there for me emotionally. Maybe he can learn to do that through counseling, maybe not. We'll see. FOr now I'm gonna concentrate on getting myself better.
Oh, and as far as family being sick of hearing of your misery as you mentioned, the same goes for me. I sometimes feel so damn alone, none of my loved ones want to hear about it anymore. So that is why when I was in crisis the other night I posted here on psycho babble. I've learned this forum is filled with people who are like me and who understand what I'm going through.
Thanks again for your kind post, and I really, really, truly hope that you find an answer that will help you. You are such a kind person you deserve to feel some happiness in your life. And the story you told about planning your suicide and telling your parents you were gonna hide the money broke my heart. You deserve better.
All my best,
Kat
Posted by ChicagoKat on September 26, 2012, at 7:20:56
In reply to Re: I'm in trouble, posted by SLS on September 26, 2012, at 6:20:16
> Hi Jane.
>
> I think your first paragraph set a tone that I immediately reacted to in a negative manner, such that I was tempted to post a reply to. I decided to watch rather than post to see where things went. I still don't fully understand that first paragraph, and I was hoping you would explain it at some point.
>
> "Give the guy a break. It seems to me he is supporting you in what you said you wanted to do."
>
> Perhaps I misunderstand what Kat's husband was supporting. I thought that it was Kat's plan to commit suicide that her husband was particularly willing to support.
>
> In spite of your opening paragraph, I thought your second paragraph offered very important insights that I wish I had thought of myself.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Dear ChicagoKat,
>
> Please correct me if I am wrong. Also, it would be helpful if you were to share your thoughts and feelings so that we might better understand you and the situation you find yourself in. Considering your proximity to committing suicide, doing so might provide the support and coping strategies that you need right now.
>
>
> - Scott
>My original post was a cry for help because when I told my husband that I planned to commit suicide if the Nardil didn't help - and I as absolutely, completely serious about this at the time - it seemed he didn't care at all, just wanted to know what to do if that eventuality occurred. It made me feel like he didn't love me, didn't care if I died, would be glad to be rid of me. That's why I posted here on psycho babble b/c none of my loved ones want to hear my misery from me anymore.
Kat
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on September 26, 2012, at 23:57:07
In reply to Re: I'm in trouble » AlexCanada, posted by SLS on September 26, 2012, at 5:57:12
There isnt a day when i still dont think that it might be better to end it all.
When things were very bad, I managed to aquire 500 tablets of amitriptyline off of the internet.... and I cant bring my self to flush them.... it seems important to me to have that option avaliable, even if I have no intention of using it.
Posted by SLS on September 27, 2012, at 8:19:21
In reply to Re: I'm in trouble, posted by jono_in_adelaide on September 26, 2012, at 23:57:07
> There isnt a day when i still dont think that it might be better to end it all.
>
> When things were very bad, I managed to aquire 500 tablets of amitriptyline off of the internet.... and I cant bring my self to flush them.... it seems important to me to have that option avaliable, even if I have no intention of using it.You know, with all of the medical literature that I managed to get through, never once did I go out of my way to research how best to leave life via autoeuthanasia. I never formulated a plan. I simply refused to allow myself go there. The one time that I came close to doing so was while I was taking reboxetine. The degree to which that drug exacerbated my depression was horrific.
- Scott
Posted by ChicagoKat on September 27, 2012, at 14:14:51
In reply to Re: I'm in trouble, posted by jono_in_adelaide on September 26, 2012, at 23:57:07
> There isnt a day when i still dont think that it might be better to end it all.
>
> When things were very bad, I managed to aquire 500 tablets of amitriptyline off of the internet.... and I cant bring my self to flush them.... it seems important to me to have that option avaliable, even if I have no intention of using it.Oh Juno, I hate to think of you feeling so bad. You are such a wonderful person and have helped me so very much I so wish I could help you. I understand keeping all that amitrypitiline....it's like a crutch that gets you through each day. But I so wish you could feel better so you didn't need it and could flush it. I would be SO sad if you ended it all. Do you have a good therapist? Mine is REALLY helping me, as are you and many of the people on this board. Hopefully you will find the right mix of drugs and a good therapist who really helps you so you can feel better. I wish it with all my heart. If you ever need to talk,just for support or b/c you are in crisis, I am here.
All my best,
Kat
Posted by ChicagoKat on September 27, 2012, at 14:18:04
In reply to Re: I'm in trouble, posted by SLS on September 27, 2012, at 8:19:21
> > There isnt a day when i still dont think that it might be better to end it all.
> >
> > When things were very bad, I managed to aquire 500 tablets of amitriptyline off of the internet.... and I cant bring my self to flush them.... it seems important to me to have that option avaliable, even if I have no intention of using it.
>
> You know, with all of the medical literature that I managed to get through, never once did I go out of my way to research how best to leave life via autoeuthanasia. I never formulated a plan. I simply refused to allow myself go there. The one time that I came close to doing so was while I was taking reboxetine. The degree to which that drug exacerbated my depression was horrific.
>
>
> - ScottDear Scott,
I hope you never find a way to commit autoeuthenasia. You are too wonderful a person, wise, intelligent, and caring. You deserve to feel better. I am feeliing MUCH better, mostly thanks to you and Juno. If you ever need to talk, please let me know. I am thinking of you.
All my best,
Kat
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on September 27, 2012, at 21:15:02
In reply to Re: I'm in trouble » SLS, posted by ChicagoKat on September 27, 2012, at 14:18:04
The only thing that stopped me was my mother, she had suffered the same stuff i had (depression, anxiety, panic attacks) as well as 10 years when she slipped into alcoholism, plus a divorce and raising us kids alone.... she hadnt had an easy life, and i decided that I couldnt burden her with her child committing suicide.
Posted by SLS on September 27, 2012, at 21:36:23
In reply to Re: I'm in trouble, posted by jono_in_adelaide on September 27, 2012, at 21:15:02
> The only thing that stopped me was my mother, she had suffered the same stuff i had (depression, anxiety, panic attacks) as well as 10 years when she slipped into alcoholism, plus a divorce and raising us kids alone.... she hadnt had an easy life, and i decided that I couldnt burden her with her child committing suicide.
Whatever it takes...
I hope you always find a reason not to.
You know, uncertainty acts to prevent me from leaving life so quickly. I am uncertain that there is anything more than this. I am unwilling to gamble that there is an afterlife.
- Scott
Posted by phillipa on September 27, 2012, at 21:40:38
In reply to Re: I'm in trouble » jono_in_adelaide, posted by SLS on September 27, 2012, at 21:36:23
Scott I so agree with this. What do you feel there is nothing but just gone and that it. That is what I think and wish someone could convince me by showing me otherwise. Phillipa
Posted by SLS on September 27, 2012, at 22:09:05
In reply to Re: I'm in trouble » SLS, posted by phillipa on September 27, 2012, at 21:40:38
> Scott I so agree with this. What do you feel there is nothing but just gone and that it. That is what I think and wish someone could convince me by showing me otherwise. Phillipa
It's sort of like Pascal's Wager in reverse. I will bet that there is no afterlife. In that way, I will make the most out of the life we live here. If I lose my wager, I will be pleasantly surprised. Spiritually, I have an irrepressible belief in God. However, I don't think He likes to break his own rules. What happens to tubeworms when their volcanic vents becomes clogged and they die for lack of hydrogen sulfide? Are they any less deserving of an afterlife than homo sapiens? I could go deeper, but suffice it to say, I am fortunate that I live in a country that grants me liberties and allows me the opportunity to live a life free of misery.
- Scott
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on September 27, 2012, at 23:06:28
In reply to Re: I'm in trouble » jono_in_adelaide, posted by SLS on September 27, 2012, at 21:36:23
I'm an atheist, I think that when I'm gone, my body will be reduced to the basic elements and the cycle of life will continue......no hell, no heaven, no afterlift.
I'm not at a place where I would seriously consider suicide atm, havent been for a couple of years, but that plastic tub of 500 Tryptanol is my security blanket - it gives me the knowlwleg that I am master of my own destiny I guess.
I have never told anyone this, lets change to a more cheerful topic!
Posted by SLS on September 28, 2012, at 7:04:41
In reply to Re: I'm in trouble, posted by jono_in_adelaide on September 27, 2012, at 23:06:28
> I'm an atheist, I think that when I'm gone, my body will be reduced to the basic elements and the cycle of life will continue......no hell, no heaven, no afterlift.
>
> I'm not at a place where I would seriously consider suicide atm, havent been for a couple of years, but that plastic tub of 500 Tryptanol is my security blanket - it gives me the knowlwleg that I am master of my own destiny I guess.
>
> I have never told anyone this, lets change to a more cheerful topic!
Okay.You first!
:-)
- Scott
Posted by ChicagoKat on September 28, 2012, at 10:20:39
In reply to Re: I'm in trouble, posted by jono_in_adelaide on September 27, 2012, at 21:15:02
> The only thing that stopped me was my mother, she had suffered the same stuff i had (depression, anxiety, panic attacks) as well as 10 years when she slipped into alcoholism, plus a divorce and raising us kids alone.... she hadnt had an easy life, and i decided that I couldnt burden her with her child committing suicide.
Jono, you are truly a good person. To keep living with that incrdible pain which most of us here I think understand (it's not the "oh I'm depressed I'll go to the doc and he will give me prozac and I feel better kind of pain)...to keep enduring that day after day so that you don't break your mother's heart after she went through the same thing and raised you while she felt the same pain. That's not just love, it's honour too, and you should be very proud of yourslf.
And do me a favor: get rid of the amitryptiline. That would be an absolutely horrible way to die. Instead keep a fifth of vodka plus a big bottle of some kind of benzo around. That would be a much gentler way to go. Better yet, get rid of the amitryptiline and just keep the meds you use day to day around :) I'm just kidding about that last one. I know you need to keep your coping mechanism around. We all have strange coping mechanisms. Like me, if you haven't heard I pick at sores on my scalp. Maybe you should learn to do that and it would be a much safer, if somewhat weirder coping mech. Oh, and before I suggest you keep a fifth of vodka around, you aren't a big drinker are you? If so don't take my advice. I'm afraid you might get drunk some night and follow through. And it would really break my heart if that happened. As always, I am hoping from the bottom of my heart that you feel better and find a solution for you. There's got to be one out there! Take care of yourself, and asl usual sorry for the long post lol
Kat
Posted by ChicagoKat on September 28, 2012, at 12:27:43
In reply to Re: I'm in trouble » jono_in_adelaide, posted by SLS on September 27, 2012, at 21:36:23
> > The only thing that stopped me was my mother, she had suffered the same stuff i had (depression, anxiety, panic attacks) as well as 10 years when she slipped into alcoholism, plus a divorce and raising us kids alone.... she hadnt had an easy life, and i decided that I couldnt burden her with her child committing suicide.
>
> Whatever it takes...
>
> I hope you always find a reason not to.
>
> You know, uncertainty acts to prevent me from leaving life so quickly. I am uncertain that there is anything more than this. I am unwilling to gamble that there is an afterlife.
>
>
> - ScottDear Scott,
You are one of the other absolutely wonderful people I've met on here. I hope you'll let me call you my friend. Anyways, I worry about you, because I think I remember you once mentioning that you develope tolerance to effective treatment within a matter of *days*. That's extraordinary, not to mention very tragic. I've thought about that b/c I develop tolerance to effective treatments within a matter of months...ever since I had ECT at any rate. And my benzo tolerance is throught the roof. It takes about 8-10 Ativann for me to feel even a mild effect. And if the doctor keeps raising the dose the tolerance just keeps going up. And it only takes days, like with you. AND the really funny thing is my tolerance stays right at that level when I am off the benzos. I don't go through withdrawal at all. It's like my body says if you want benzos you're gonna have to take a bottle full of them. Very strange. So benzos are out for me, but Gabapentin has been a godsend. It really helps with anxiety and sleep. But I develop tolerance to it at the same fast rate that I do other meds; in fact even faster; it takes about a week for me to need a dose increase. But my pdoc tells me you can go up to like 4000mg of it so we have room. But hopefully with my change to Nardil I won't need it anymore. Nardil really helped my anxiety. And my sleep. I'm just afraid I'll develope tolerance to it too after a couple of months and then what will I do?? I asked my pdoc last time I saw him why he thinks I develop tolerance to effective meds so quickly and he just said I must have an amazingly effective liver. I answered back that maybe I should become a heavy drinker. He laughed. But I didn't really get a good scientific answer to my question. Probably b/c he doesn't know, just like your pdoc probably doesn't know. And I was thinking about it yesterday; why is it that we deveolop tolerance, no matter if it's at a very fast or a very slow rate, only to psychotropics. Why don't we get tolerance to say Advil? Or Pepcid? Or, more interestingly, to Tylenol, which is a centrally acting agent? Anyways, food for thought and I thought you might be interrested. Knowing you, you've already pondered it and done lots of research on it. Sorry for my extra long post, I just can't help myself, once I start postiing I just type away. I hope I don't bore you! Anyways, take good care of yourself, and know that I am thingking of you and hoping from the bottom of my heart that you find a solution that works for you and doesn't develop tolerance! Oh, by the way, do you have a really good therapist? I mean a REALLY good one, not just one that you talk at for an hour and you get nowhwere. I mean someone who is willing to see you 3x per week b/c you are so severely depressed, and does her absolute best, in a very gentle way, to get at the root(s) of the problem, and then treats you for them. I have such a therapist and she is a Godsend. She finds out about the traumas that happened to me when I was a child, and she says I suffer from developmental PTSD. So she uses a treatment that they have found is very effective for people with PTSD; it's called EMDR. I forget what it stands for but it involves thinking about a trauma that occurred to you, no matter at what age, while you watch her fingers go back and forth. It's a right brain/left brain kind of thing. And they've found that somehow this desensitizes the brain to the trauma. And then, right after you have dealt with that trauma, you go on to whatever your mind thinks of next, no matter what it is, which is usually another trauma, and do the same thing again. She calls it being on a train. And, if things get too intense, which has happened to me, I almost had a panic attack once, she stops and takes care of my immediate problem. For panic attacks she has me count backwards from 1000 by 3 out loud. I know I make a lot of mistakes b/c I'm so upset, but that doesn't matter, it really helps to calm me down and I'm usually OK by the time I reach 900 or thereabouts. If you ever have panic attacks, give it a try, it's way more effective than Xanax. We've done EMDR several times and I can tell you it's absolutely emotionally ehxausting, but that I feel better after it. And the more I've done it with her, the better I'm slowly starting to feel. I'm beginniing to feel hope, which is just insane for me. AND, since I have a medical background, and since the first time I took an antidepressant, when I was 20-something, I think it was Prozac, it had such a HUGE efeect on me, it changed me life, it made me a different person: a non-depressed person. It was amazing in so many ways, but I won't bore you with the details, especially since this post is reaching epic proportions. But, as all the antidpressants do for some of us, I slowly built up tolerance and the dose kept haveing to be raised, until I reached the max of 80. Then I switched to a different drug, and it had nowhere the mind-blowing effect on me the Prozac did (I think that was just b/c Proazc was the first antidepressant I ever tried. It could have been anything and I prob would have had the same reaction.) Anyways, long story short I went through all the meds there are and reached the max with each of them, then started trying adding atypicals and mood stabilizers, etc, etc to no effect. the SSRIs still helped me a little bit; they let me hold down my job as a pharmacist for the weekends, but then my doc suggested ECT. WHAT A NIGHTMARE. But that's for another post. It made my depression and anxiety worse, and made it so the SSRIs had no effect on me at all. I lost my job b/c of it and had to first go on unempolyment, and now I'm on disability. THank God. It's giving me time to try to get better. But I'll never be a pharmacist again, for reasons I'll save for yet another post. Aren't you happy? I must be driving you mad by now, or else you have stopped reading and I am just typing to myself. Oh well! So after the ect disaster I was hopitalized twice for suicidality, which had never happened to me before, and it was at that time that I went through my first washout (24mg of Ativan a day!!!), and was put on Nardil, but you already know how that turned out...but VERY luckily I met my current absolutely wonderful pdoc who has stuck with me through thick and thin and has helped me try every combination/possibility in the book. And he has finally agreed, since we have tried everything - even Tramadol..yes, he was willing to prescribe that for me! - which turned out to be an utter failure, he has finally agreed, as I was saying, to go back to Nardil which we know works for my Anxiety and my sleeping at a low dose, and mildly helps me depression at that low dose. As I've told you a million times I can't go higher than 45mg/day. But we're wondering if,, after time and more enzymes are blocked, that maybe it will help my depression even more. Plus, with you and Jono recommending Nortryptiline that might help my depression too. But I have to say I hate TCAs - the side effects are horrible, as I'm sure you are aware, but I've most recently been on Elavil (for sleep), and I know it's one of the worst as far as side effects go. So we'll see! I'm really excited, but at the same time I'm afraid of the tolerance curse. I'll keep my fingers and toes crossed (now THAT would not help my ataxia!!). But after all is said, and I know a LOT has been said, I've come to believe, even with my medical/scientific background (I had 2 yrs of med school too - yet another story to bore you with in the future!), but as I was saying, I've come to believe that medication is just a bandaid, or at most something that helps concomitantly. Through my intensive therapy, even I, who was raised to believe that science is everything, all my family were/are scientists, I've come to believe that it is the therapy and the EMDR that will eventually bring me relief from my terrible depression and anxiety. It won't be easy, and it may take a while, but I'm truly beginning to believe it's working. That's why, a million years ago, I asked you if you have a really good therapist. And if you don't, you should search for one. I'm utterly serious about this. And I know you are a science person too. But if I can be convinced, anyone can. You don't happen to live in the Chicago area do you? If so I'd send you to see me therapist right away. But if you don't, PLEASE consider searching for a therapist who does EMDR, b/c you once mentioned you had PTSD before. I don't remeber if it was developmental or not, but whatever. And if you find a therapist who does EDMR, find one that will meet with you 3x a week to start. And, if you don't like the therapist when you first meet with him or her, keep searching. It is SO important to find the right one. I feel like after all the trauma I've experienced, all the pain I've endured, all the times I just wanted to die, I finally got lucky and met this therapist. I firmly believe she is going to save my life, and not only that, make me a happier person for the rest of the years I have left on this planet.WELL, I am SO sorry that was SUCH a long post, but I really care about you, you've really been there for me when I needed someone, and I want so badly to help end your pain. And is seems, no matter how much research you've done, no matter now many meds and med combos you've tried, nothing is working for you. So I'm stressing a diiferent route, one that I was very skeptical of, as I'm sure you are too. And that is to find a really good, really caring therapist who will try EMDR on you. It's worth a try right? It can't hurt. Think about it, research it, and let me know what you think. I am thinking about you.
Kat
p.s. I'm like you again in that I'm not certain there is anything after this life. Like I said, I was raised in a very scientific family, and religion was absolutely not a part of my life. I was raised with the belief that once you die, that's it, there's nothing, and your body rots in the ground. My Dad was a confirmed atheist. On a funny note, now that he is 76, he has become an agnostic. Which is what I consider myself to be too, and have ever since I left home and went off to college. I feel I have no proof either way. But, when I think about it, I think there absolutely has to be something or someones who are greater than us. It's my blind fish at the bottom of the ocean theory. Those blind fish have absolutely no idea that a world exists where there is light and sunshine, and plants, and rivers, and even other planets and a whole universe. So perhaps we are akin to them, but on a slightly higher level. Perhaps there are things that exist that we may never see or even be capable of understanding. But maybe we will be able to. Where there's smoke there's fire, and there has to be something to Christianity. One of these days I want to take a class on Theology so I can better understand that side of the argument, seeing as how I have such a strong grasp of the opposite side of the argument. I'm also thinking that maybe I'll just try going to church a time or two and see how it affects me. My grandparents were Russian Orthodox, so I figure that's the kind of church I'd go to. Who knows. It is certainly the greatest mystery in life. And now I've made my post even longer. I really hope you don't mind.
Posted by phillipa on September 28, 2012, at 19:43:24
In reply to Re: I'm in trouble » SLS, posted by ChicagoKat on September 28, 2012, at 12:27:43
I would like Rainbow's Bridge with my little dogs and cats. I want to be with them.Phillipa
Posted by ChicagoKat on September 28, 2012, at 21:21:22
In reply to Re: I'm in trouble » ChicagoKat, posted by phillipa on September 28, 2012, at 19:43:24
> I would like Rainbow's Bridge with my little dogs and cats. I want to be with them.Phillipa
I would like that too Phillipa. I really miss my pets who have died.
Kat
Posted by phillipa on September 29, 2012, at 19:05:47
In reply to Re: I'm in trouble » phillipa, posted by ChicagoKat on September 28, 2012, at 21:21:22
Kat did you ever google the rainbow's bridge site? It's so lovely. Phillipa
Posted by phillipa on September 29, 2012, at 19:08:06
In reply to Re: I'm in trouble » phillipa, posted by ChicagoKat on September 28, 2012, at 21:21:22
Posted by phillipa on September 29, 2012, at 19:16:47
In reply to Re: I'm in trouble » phillipa, posted by ChicagoKat on September 28, 2012, at 21:21:22
Posted by ChicagoKat on September 29, 2012, at 20:10:13
In reply to Re: I'm in trouble » ChicagoKat, posted by phillipa on September 29, 2012, at 19:05:47
> Kat did you ever google the rainbow's bridge site? It's so lovely. Phillipa
Phillipa, the loss of my pets has affected me so deeply I can't visit the site at the risk of losing it. My pets became everything to me when I was little b/c my mom emotionally abused me, my dad was an alcoholic and they had viscious arguments. To this day I lose it at the thought of losing my pets, both when I was young and when I was an adult. My mom didn't even offer me comfort when my pets died, she yelled at me to stop crying and made me go to school the next day even though I was crying all day and the kids made fun of me. She didn't understand that I would have died for each of those pets, that losing them was like losing a parent, and, most importantly that I had loved them FAR more than I did her. In fact I hated her then. I hated her most of my childhood. My therapist and I are working on it now, but it's going to be the toughest nut of many to crack.
Thanks for the suggestion thhough.
Kat
Posted by phillipa on September 29, 2012, at 21:32:11
In reply to Re: I'm in trouble » phillipa, posted by ChicagoKat on September 29, 2012, at 20:10:13
I know the feeling of loss not a day goes by that I do not think of my Brandy & Sheeba first two pups little ones that I got as adult late 30's at the time. Had them for l7 years Brandy & 13 Sheeba. I will be buried with them. And the 2 I have now also. Phillipa
Posted by ChicagoKat on September 30, 2012, at 9:53:58
In reply to Re: I'm in trouble » ChicagoKat, posted by phillipa on September 29, 2012, at 21:32:11
> I know the feeling of loss not a day goes by that I do not think of my Brandy & Sheeba first two pups little ones that I got as adult late 30's at the time. Had them for l7 years Brandy & 13 Sheeba. I will be buried with them. And the 2 I have now also. Phillipa
I'm sorry you lost your beloved pups, Phillipa. And I understand wanting to be buried with them. I always figured I'd be buried, but when I lived on my own in apartments in Chicago and my 3 beloved cats died - Murphy, Sidney, and Chloe - cremation was the only real option b/c I know that even though there are pet cemeteries, I suspect they will one day be dug up to make room for yet more strip malls. Plus, I wouldn't be able to be buried with them there. Plus, I want part of my body at least to be near my pets I loved and lost when I was young. So I had my kitties cremated, and I plan to be cremated myself, along with the kitties I have now. I have asked my husband (we have agreed it would be much better if I go first as he could handle the grief much better than I could)..anyways, I have asked him to mix all the ashes together, me, and all my kitties that I have lost and will lost, and have told him where our little pet cemetery is at the house I grew up in, and to aske my brother if he is not sure, and to scatter all our ashes over the cemetery. At least bits of me will be wiith the creatures I have learned, the hard way, to love more than people. Take care.
Kat
This is the end of the thread.
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