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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by phillipa on October 2, 2012, at 12:07:00
Something been thinking about for a few years. My old pdoc once said something interesting to me in a general conversation. I think husband was there too as this was the one took hours to drive to. She mentioned that if one wanted to they could take there life. No mention of suicide. But she said it's your life and no one has the right to stop you. So how come they hospitalize suicidal People. Isn't this the same thing? Phillipa
Posted by Christ_empowered on October 2, 2012, at 14:08:41
In reply to Anyone's PDoc Ever Say It's Your Choice To End Lif, posted by phillipa on October 2, 2012, at 12:07:00
Dr.Thomas Szasz--the genius who brought us "The Myth of Mental Illness"-- certainly believes in the right to suicide. Something about anti-suicide legislation being a real power trip...all about depriving the king of a servant or something. I don't quite remember.
Psychiatry in general seems to have a sort of Death Cult aspect to it that freaks me out sometimes. They lock people up, give people terrible labels, terrible prognosis, and then make their lives miserable. Happened to me for entirely too long, that's for sure.
Maybe its more social darwinism? Like..we'll help the strong, but the weaklings need to be controlled, lock up, drugged up, and possibly off themselves? Shrinks themselves have an unusually high suicide rate, if I recall correctly.
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on October 2, 2012, at 17:55:16
In reply to Re: Anyone's PDoc Ever Say It's Your Choice To End Lif, posted by Christ_empowered on October 2, 2012, at 14:08:41
The anti suicide laws in Australia were repealed in the 1970's, so it is everybodys right here to end their life - however, its still a crime to assist someone in a suicide.
I think if the person is in the grip of a deep endrogenous depression, then its right to protect them from them self until drugs can kick in, becase they arnt thinking straight.... it isnt a rational decision .... but if a person has been depressed or ill for years, and is at the end of the road re treatments, sometimes suiicde can be a rational act - the ides of living with that pain for another xxx years might be too awful to contemplate.
We wouldnt blame a cancer patient for ending it to avoid spending their last few weeks or months in agony, and psychiatric pain is just as bad, we shouldnt blame someone who reaches the point where they just cant go on living any more.
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on October 2, 2012, at 17:57:26
In reply to Re: Anyone's PDoc Ever Say It's Your Choice To End Lif, posted by Christ_empowered on October 2, 2012, at 14:08:41
When I was at rock bottom I brought 500 amitriptyline tablets off of an internet supplier, as a means of escape.... obviously i never took it, but i have kept that plastic pub of pills, its my ultimate safety net, incase the pain of living becomes too much to bare
Posted by ChicagoKat on October 2, 2012, at 18:20:55
In reply to Anyone's PDoc Ever Say It's Your Choice To End Lif, posted by phillipa on October 2, 2012, at 12:07:00
> Something been thinking about for a few years. My old pdoc once said something interesting to me in a general conversation. I think husband was there too as this was the one took hours to drive to. She mentioned that if one wanted to they could take there life. No mention of suicide. But she said it's your life and no one has the right to stop you. So how come they hospitalize suicidal People. Isn't this the same thing? Phillipa
First of all, I hope you are not feeling that way Phillipa...we are all here to help if we can.
Secondly, I actually tend to happen to agree with your old doc. Like he said, it's your life. The one exception I see is if you have kids or others who depend on you. I think most people are just so afraid of death that they make suicide taboo.
Lastly, don't know how my pdoc feels about the topic, but just today he told me " there's always another med" many doctors, especially may be agaist suicide b/c they feel the same, that there is always another med/ treatment/ whatever.
Really hope you're OK. Babblemail me if you're not. Take care!
Kat
Posted by emmanuel98 on October 2, 2012, at 19:22:32
In reply to Re: Anyone's PDoc Ever Say It's Your Choice To End Lif » phillipa, posted by ChicagoKat on October 2, 2012, at 18:20:55
My therapist thinks she should only section me if I am irrational and incapable of making decisions. My p-doc, on the other hand, calls my husband if I am at all suicidal and my husband begs me to go to the ER. But he has also said that he can understand if people are in so much pain for so long that they just can't bare it anymore. He just has always thought I'm not there yet. But I haven't felt suicidal in nearly a year, which I attribute to DBT and lamictal.
Posted by phillipa on October 2, 2012, at 21:25:08
In reply to Re: Anyone's PDoc Ever Say It's Your Choice To End Lif, posted by emmanuel98 on October 2, 2012, at 19:22:32
Intersting responses. Thanks. I know it's true for euthenasia for physically ill people as husband's Mother had just been diagnosed with ALS. Had some trouble breathing in hospital put on a rebreather and said I don't want to spend my life this way. The docs let her have a cocktail and started a morphine drip. Family all agreed. Two days later she died. Phillipa
Posted by ChicagoKat on October 3, 2012, at 10:12:04
In reply to Re: Anyone's PDoc Ever Say It's Your Choice To End Lif, posted by jono_in_adelaide on October 2, 2012, at 17:55:16
> The anti suicide laws in Australia were repealed in the 1970's, so it is everybodys right here to end their life - however, its still a crime to assist someone in a suicide.
>
> I think if the person is in the grip of a deep endrogenous depression, then its right to protect them from them self until drugs can kick in, becase they arnt thinking straight.... it isnt a rational decision .... but if a person has been depressed or ill for years, and is at the end of the road re treatments, sometimes suiicde can be a rational act - the ides of living with that pain for another xxx years might be too awful to contemplate.
>
> We wouldnt blame a cancer patient for ending it to avoid spending their last few weeks or months in agony, and psychiatric pain is just as bad, we shouldnt blame someone who reaches the point where they just cant go on living any more.Well said Jono. I wish my post had been as complete and true as yours.
Kat
Posted by schleprock on October 3, 2012, at 23:07:14
In reply to Re: Anyone's PDoc Ever Say It's Your Choice To End Lif, posted by Christ_empowered on October 2, 2012, at 14:08:41
> Dr.Thomas Szasz--the genius who brought us "The Myth of Mental Illness"-- certainly believes in the right to suicide. Something about anti-suicide legislation being a real power trip...all about depriving the king of a servant or something. I don't quite remember.
>
> Psychiatry in general seems to have a sort of Death Cult aspect to it that freaks me out sometimes. They lock people up, give people terrible labels, terrible prognosis, and then make their lives miserable. Happened to me for entirely too long, that's for sure.
>
> Maybe its more social darwinism? Like..we'll help the strong, but the weaklings need to be controlled, lock up, drugged up, and possibly off themselves? Shrinks themselves have an unusually high suicide rate, if I recall correctly.Isn't he a Batman character?
Posted by 4WD on October 5, 2012, at 6:17:55
In reply to Anyone's PDoc Ever Say It's Your Choice To End Lif, posted by phillipa on October 2, 2012, at 12:07:00
> Something been thinking about for a few years. My old pdoc once said something interesting to me in a general conversation. I think husband was there too as this was the one took hours to drive to. She mentioned that if one wanted to they could take there life. No mention of suicide. But she said it's your life and no one has the right to stop you. So how come they hospitalize suicidal People. Isn't this the same thing? Phillipa
They hospitalized me because when my plan was complete and there was nothing /no one around to get in the way , I called my pdoc (as a courtesy, I think I told myself) and told him what I was fixing to do. And he asked me politely if I would go to the hospital instead. So I chose to go. I didn't want to be dead forever. I just wanted to be dead until the pain went away. Somehow it hit me that I wouldn't be waking up in my coffin in a while all better to start over fresh.
I stayed a couple weeks only then did ECT outpatient. That got me better enough to come home-maybe 20 % better.
Posted by Islandangel on October 6, 2012, at 20:17:51
In reply to Re: Anyone's PDoc Ever Say It's Your Choice To End Lif » phillipa, posted by 4WD on October 5, 2012, at 6:17:55
Phillipa,
You are someone who is always there for so many people on PsychoBabble and I am certain you have saved many lives with your constant support here. I am wondering if this was a comment that was psychologically motivated. P-docs are smart. It's their business to figure out ways of treating you and helping you become mentally well. I don't think the p-doc was encouraging you to take your life but instead the opposite. I think they call it "reverse psychology". He/she must have really hit a nerve with you. So much so, that you still think about it today. That was quite possibly the purpose (at least I hope so). And look at you now, helping so many people. We heart you Phillipa!
Posted by ChicagoKat on October 6, 2012, at 21:03:44
In reply to Re: Anyone's PDoc Ever Say It's Your Choice To End, posted by Islandangel on October 6, 2012, at 20:17:51
> Phillipa,
> You are someone who is always there for so many people on PsychoBabble and I am certain you have saved many lives with your constant support here. I am wondering if this was a comment that was psychologically motivated. P-docs are smart. It's their business to figure out ways of treating you and helping you become mentally well. I don't think the p-doc was encouraging you to take your life but instead the opposite. I think they call it "reverse psychology". He/she must have really hit a nerve with you. So much so, that you still think about it today. That was quite possibly the purpose (at least I hope so). And look at you now, helping so many people. We heart you Phillipa!I heartily support those statements! You are the best, Phillipa!
Posted by phillipa on October 6, 2012, at 21:38:22
In reply to Re: Anyone's PDoc Ever Say It's Your Choice To End » Islandangel, posted by ChicagoKat on October 6, 2012, at 21:03:44
Gee thanks guys that was so sweet. Not often people let me know I mean something. I kind of have to laugh as I bet you were right about the reverse psychology. And to think I was at one time nationally certified in psych as an RN. She was extremly good. And it worked. Phillipa
Posted by papillon2 on October 7, 2012, at 9:33:14
In reply to Re: Anyone's PDoc Ever Say It's Your Choice To End Lif, posted by jono_in_adelaide on October 2, 2012, at 17:55:16
> The anti suicide laws in Australia were repealed in the 1970's, so it is everybodys right here to end their life - however, its still a crime to assist someone in a suicide.
>
> I think if the person is in the grip of a deep endrogenous depression, then its right to protect them from them self until drugs can kick in, becase they arnt thinking straight.... it isnt a rational decision .... but if a person has been depressed or ill for years, and is at the end of the road re treatments, sometimes suiicde can be a rational act - the ides of living with that pain for another xxx years might be too awful to contemplate.
>
> We wouldnt blame a cancer patient for ending it to avoid spending their last few weeks or months in agony, and psychiatric pain is just as bad, we shouldnt blame someone who reaches the point where they just cant go on living any more.Hear hear!
Posted by sleepygirl2 on October 7, 2012, at 12:57:44
In reply to Anyone's PDoc Ever Say It's Your Choice To End Lif, posted by phillipa on October 2, 2012, at 12:07:00
Well, it is true. Anyone could kill themselves if they want to. Should they? That's another story.
I don't think psych admits are appropriate in every case.
This is the end of the thread.
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