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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by rjlockhart37 on November 8, 2014, at 17:52:29
i was just thinking a while ago.....i was on oxycodone for a thing where i pulled my back out of place lifting something, and and also hydrocodone later because of a wreck i got into.....
but why do they, when i took oxycodone it totally wiped out depression, it made me more socialable and in good spirits, hydrocodone was similar expet not as strong.....
so i do know that opiates target dopamine, but it's not a stimulant like effect, sutle, being content, and feeling a general feeling of well being......
yet opiates have been known for almost what 200 years of their addiction properties, all the way back to the civil war when they used morphine for the soldiers and they kept requesting more of it.....and of course, funny thing to know but they sold heroin over the counter in the early 1900's 1900-1915 until they made the first drug laws.....
why do opiates make feel so contend? heroin is just .... your a dazed zombie with 100 percent drug-flooded sedated pleasure.....but that's heroin, i'm talking more about presciption opiates today like oxycountin, vicodin.....
they are vary good for depression, it becomes slightly pleasant, and then by the mid effect feeling well-being but when it wears off is when you start to think about the next dose, and then pleasure decreases back to sober......but they created suboxone now for addicts.....opiates are vary good for depression thats i have to say, despite their long known history of addiction....
but does anyone have anythoughts about that?
r
Posted by kendoka on November 9, 2014, at 10:31:49
In reply to why do opiates help depression?, posted by rjlockhart37 on November 8, 2014, at 17:52:29
Opiates bind to the mu receptor, which inhibits GABA neurons in the VTA. The VTA is the source of most of the dopamine. Activating the mu receptor also inhibits the amygdala, helping with anxiety. Anyway,the GABA neurons in the VTA are like brakes that prevent the flow of dopamine. Turning the GABA brakes off increases the firing rate of dopamine neurons, which improves your mood by activating your mesolimbic circuit.
In depression this firing rate is dysregulated, probably due to some kind of malfunction between the limbic system and prefrontal cortex. Could be a problem with various nodes, like the caudate/putamen, the mPFC, OFC or the anterior cingulate, which have direct or indirect connections to the VTA and nucleus accumbens. I suspect asymmetry issues in the developing brain to play a role here as well.
Opiates have great antidepressant effect, but of course tolerance, addiction, and withdrawal issues become apparent with frequent use so caution is advised.
Posted by SLS on November 9, 2014, at 11:08:06
In reply to Re: why do opiates help depression?, posted by kendoka on November 9, 2014, at 10:31:49
Nice post.
Thanks.
- Scott
Posted by phidippus on November 10, 2014, at 19:56:48
In reply to why do opiates help depression?, posted by rjlockhart37 on November 8, 2014, at 17:52:29
>so i do know that opiates target dopamine, but it's not a stimulant like effect, sutle, being content, and feeling a general feeling of well being......
Opiates target the opioid system and have nothing to do with dopamine.
Opioids bind to specific opioid receptors in the nervous system and other tissues. There are three principal classes of opioid receptors, mu, kappa, and delta, although up to seventeen have been reported, and include the (Epsilon, Iota, Lambda and Zeta) receptors. Conversely, (Sigma) receptors are no longer considered to be opioid receptors because their activation is not reversed by the opioid inverse-agonist naloxone, they do not exhibit high-affinity binding for classical opioids, and they are stereoselective for dextro-rotatory isomers while the other opioid receptors are stereo-selective for laevo-rotatory isomers. In addition, there are three subtypes of mu-receptor: mu1 and mu2, and the newly discovered m3. Another receptor of clinical importance is the opioid-receptor-like receptor 1 (ORL1), which is involved in pain responses as well as having a major role in the development of tolerance to mu-opioid agonists used as analgesics. These are all G-protein coupled receptors acting on GABAergic neurotransmission.
The body produces opioids, called endorphins which bind to the opoid system and create feelings of well being.
Nobody really knows why opiates produce feelings of euphoria, but its that quality they possess which makes them useful as antidepressants.
Eric
Posted by Christ_empowered on November 10, 2014, at 20:20:57
In reply to Re: why do opiates help depression? » rjlockhart37, posted by phidippus on November 10, 2014, at 19:56:48
Opiates can help all sorts of psychiatric ills. I even read a relatively recent little abstract about using some high potency pain killer (I wanna say Dilaudid) in cases of schizophrenia. The abstract mentioned rare cases of TD from heavy opiate use, so...
Anyway, think of it in terms of psychological effects. ADs tend to make emotions flatter, more manageable. Benzos reduce tension and help sleep, which reduces depression according to research scales. Low dose neuroleptics reduce tension, some help sleep, and they induce varying degrees of apathy and indifference, and they can reduce agitation and psychotic symptoms in various mood problems.
So....
...opiates, from my limited experience, help by reducing tension and agitation, lifting mood, and making emotions less burdensome. Some can help sleep, although in my limited experience, that's kinda hit or miss. Also, if there's physical pain involved, obviously dealing with that will reduce "depression."
Posted by phidippus on November 10, 2014, at 20:38:21
In reply to Re: why do opiates help depression?, posted by Christ_empowered on November 10, 2014, at 20:20:57
> ...opiates, from my limited experience, help by reducing tension and agitation, lifting mood, and making emotions less burdensome. Some can help sleep, although in my limited experience, that's kinda hit or miss. Also, if there's physical pain involved, obviously dealing with that will reduce "depression."
Its simpler and much more succint to say opiates induce euphoria, which of course is a good anti-deressant.
Eric
Posted by rjlockhart37 on November 12, 2014, at 16:34:21
In reply to Re: why do opiates help depression?, posted by phidippus on November 10, 2014, at 20:38:21
thanks, opiates have always been known for their antidepressant effects for 200 years or more.....
didnt know they didnt work on dopamine, but yea mu receptor.....i've heard of that....
thanks for the response
r
Posted by rjlockhart37 on November 12, 2014, at 16:35:11
In reply to Re: why do opiates help depression?, posted by Christ_empowered on November 10, 2014, at 20:20:57
thanks christ empowered, enjoy reading all the info on this.....
thanks for your response
r
Posted by rjlockhart37 on November 12, 2014, at 16:38:10
In reply to Re: why do opiates help depression?, posted by kendoka on November 9, 2014, at 10:31:49
GABA receptors.....i thought it was the MAO nuerotransmitter that breaks down the the nuerotransmitters.....like hte inhibitors that have antidepressant effects, [not the opiates, but maoi's]
the GABA actually makes the mood not euphoric? benzos always have been known for their relief properties.....
make an anti-gaba medication, that would pretty bad.....LOL
r
Posted by rjlockhart37 on November 12, 2014, at 16:38:37
In reply to Re: why do opiates help depression? » kendoka, posted by SLS on November 9, 2014, at 11:08:06
Posted by rjlockhart37 on November 13, 2014, at 22:58:38
In reply to Re: why do opiates help depression?, posted by kendoka on November 9, 2014, at 10:31:49
thank you for your post.....i didnt mean to sound rude, i read it again and it sounded not so good...
i have no knowedge on the psychics of nuerotransmitters, i just know their effects, and how they can make someone feel.......i don't know how it works through psychics of it.....
thank you for your post
r
Posted by Lamdage22 on November 20, 2014, at 3:03:13
In reply to Re: why do opiates help depression? » kendoka, posted by rjlockhart37 on November 13, 2014, at 22:58:38
Some people say that heroin has helped them in their lives. Obviously this can only apply to heavily burdened people but some say it helped them rough times they would not otherwise have made it through.
I dont know if its true or not, but some people say that.
This is the end of the thread.
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