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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Tomatheus on May 19, 2015, at 16:39:22
In reply to Re: Memantine (Namenda) makes me feel worse. » Tomatheus, posted by SLS on May 19, 2015, at 15:48:10
I sure hope that something will work out for you, Scott, whether it's brain stimulation, cariprazine, or something else. In the meantime, if I ever find a treatment that successfully alleviates my own anergic depression in the long run, I'll be sure to post about it to let you and others here know.
Tomatheus
Posted by SLS on May 19, 2015, at 22:40:32
In reply to Re: Memantine (Namenda) makes me feel worse. » SLS, posted by Tomatheus on May 19, 2015, at 16:39:22
> I sure hope that something will work out for you, Scott, whether it's brain stimulation, cariprazine, or something else. In the meantime, if I ever find a treatment that successfully alleviates my own anergic depression in the long run, I'll be sure to post about it to let you and others here know.
>
> Tomatheus
Thanks, big T.:-)
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on May 20, 2015, at 9:23:05
In reply to Re: Memantine (Namenda) makes me feel worse. » SLS, posted by Tomatheus on May 19, 2015, at 16:39:22
You are serious
Posted by Lamdage22 on May 20, 2015, at 9:54:59
In reply to Re: Memantine (Namenda) makes me feel worse., posted by Lamdage22 on May 20, 2015, at 9:23:05
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZCgWmose3c
Pretty embarassing
Posted by Lamdage22 on May 20, 2015, at 10:52:05
In reply to Re: Memantine (Namenda) makes me feel worse., posted by Lamdage22 on May 20, 2015, at 9:54:59
Scott,
if it makes you even worse, what are you going to do??
Posted by SLS on May 21, 2015, at 0:00:19
In reply to Re: Memantine (Namenda) makes me feel worse., posted by Lamdage22 on May 20, 2015, at 10:52:05
> Scott,
>
> if it makes you even worse, what are you going to do??I guess I'll do what I always do. I will continue to keep an eye on new drugs that become available. However, I feel the need to explore various brain stimulation techniques - both electric current and magnetic field types. In the meantime, I am adding various vitamins and supplements. For now, I am focusing on D and B12 along with inositol. Deplin (L-methylfolate) was of no help.
- Scott
Posted by tom2228 on May 21, 2015, at 11:29:36
In reply to Re: Memantine (Namenda) makes me feel worse. » Lamdage22, posted by SLS on May 21, 2015, at 0:00:19
> > Scott,
> >
> > if it makes you even worse, what are you going to do??
>
> I guess I'll do what I always do. I will continue to keep an eye on new drugs that become available. However, I feel the need to explore various brain stimulation techniques - both electric current and magnetic field types. In the meantime, I am adding various vitamins and supplements. For now, I am focusing on D and B12 along with inositol. Deplin (L-methylfolate) was of no help.
>
>
> - ScottHave you tried Desoxyn yet? I'm not currently taking it but am asking for a switch back tomorrow. What's worse, the stigma/ fear of Desoxyn, DBS, or a life of TRD? What's in a name anyway, especially if you have no history of substance abuse?
Part of me wonders whether you're afraid to be happy and let go of the need to think about medication, which while necessary while one is struggling, is a pretty effective way to live in one's head and distract oneself from change or more helpful ways of coping that include a degree of uncomfortability. I only say this because I've struggled with this for quite some time now. I have tried 51 medications and FINALLY I am coming out of what seems to have been a decade of depression and a lifetime of unhappiness.
Are you in therapy or an outpatient or partial group setting? I highly suggest it. If we could do this on our own we would have already. I remember reading a post saying that you felt best when you were in a program. I know depressive symptoms hold one back but life itself needs to be approached as aggressively as medication treatment. This requires rigorous honest, open-mindedness, and willingness.
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 21, 2015, at 15:10:48
In reply to Re: Memantine (Namenda) makes me feel worse., posted by tom2228 on May 21, 2015, at 11:29:36
> > > Scott,
> > >
> > > if it makes you even worse, what are you going to do??
> >
> > I guess I'll do what I always do. I will continue to keep an eye on new drugs that become available. However, I feel the need to explore various brain stimulation techniques - both electric current and magnetic field types. In the meantime, I am adding various vitamins and supplements. For now, I am focusing on D and B12 along with inositol. Deplin (L-methylfolate) was of no help.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Have you tried Desoxyn yet? I'm not currently taking it but am asking for a switch back tomorrow. What's worse, the stigma/ fear of Desoxyn, DBS, or a life of TRD? What's in a name anyway, especially if you have no history of substance abuse?
>
> Part of me wonders whether you're afraid to be happy and let go of the need to think about medication, which while necessary while one is struggling, is a pretty effective way to live in one's head and distract oneself from change or more helpful ways of coping that include a degree of uncomfortability. I only say this because I've struggled with this for quite some time now. I have tried 51 medications and FINALLY I am coming out of what seems to have been a decade of depression and a lifetime of unhappiness.
>
> Are you in therapy or an outpatient or partial group setting? I highly suggest it. If we could do this on our own we would have already. I remember reading a post saying that you felt best when you were in a program. I know depressive symptoms hold one back but life itself needs to be approached as aggressively as medication treatment. This requires rigorous honest, open-mindedness, and willingness.tom,
You wrote,[...life itself needs to be approached...].
I think that's good. Thanks
Lou
Posted by SLS on May 21, 2015, at 22:29:25
In reply to Re: Memantine (Namenda) makes me feel worse., posted by tom2228 on May 21, 2015, at 11:29:36
Hi Tom.
I am grateful for your concern and the time you spent putting together a thoughtful post. From your perspactive, I would certainly question my self-described biological illness and its refractoriness to drug treatment. I know it is frustrating for people to see me complain about the same thing all the time. It's pretty damned frustrating for me, too. I have never been bashful about looking towards psychotherapies as modalities for self improvement. However, they have not proved to be of any help in ameliorating my depression. I'm not looking for happiness in a pill. I'm looking for the resolution of the mental illness that is more numbing than it is depressing. I do experience dysphoria, but anergia, cognitive and memory impairments, and the loss of interest and motivation predominate. I have the sort of illness that allows one to experience happiness despite being "depressed" at the same time. I wish that I could find resolution of whatever it is that I suffer from by having conversations with people in a psychotherapeutic milieu - talk therapy. I would love to have that kind of control.
- Scott
Posted by mogger on May 25, 2015, at 17:52:32
In reply to Memantine (Namenda) makes me feel worse., posted by SLS on May 19, 2015, at 14:21:31
This is the second time I have agreed with you in 10 minutes. Memantine made my suicide ideation and depression become much worse. Came right off it. Have you tried Rilutek? Best anti depressant I have taken but I couldn't put a sentence together after a few months so had to discontinue.
Posted by TriedEveryMedication on May 26, 2015, at 9:55:18
In reply to Memantine (Namenda) makes me feel worse., posted by SLS on May 19, 2015, at 14:21:31
> Has anyone experienced a worsening of depression while taking memantine?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> - ScottIt made me feel weird. Very mildly unpleasant.
Really that's all it did - no benefits noticed at all.
Posted by Horse on June 3, 2015, at 20:26:33
In reply to Memantine (Namenda) makes me feel worse., posted by SLS on May 19, 2015, at 14:21:31
Scott, I'm sorry to read you haven't seemed to progress with your MI. As usual, your intelligence masks your presentation...I mean that as a compliment.
It's kinda crazy to say...I think DBS might be an effective treatment for your condition. I don't know the quaility of surgery available to you, and I have never researched it for myself...however, when ect was recommended, I had thought quite a bit about VNS. The video link was compelling...and if you could secure excellent care...maybe?
When I took namenda, I noticed nothing. There were med changes at the time, and I was responding to nothing...so I don't have any information to add...just support and encouragement. Beckett x
Posted by SLS on June 4, 2015, at 0:54:46
In reply to Re: Memantine (Namenda) makes me feel worse. » SLS, posted by Horse on June 3, 2015, at 20:26:33
> Scott, I'm sorry to read you haven't seemed to progress with your MI. As usual, your intelligence masks your presentation...I mean that as a compliment.
It was taken as one. :-)
I'm sure you can imagine how many people accuse me of wanting to be sick.
> It's kinda crazy to say...I think DBS might be an effective treatment for your condition. I don't know the quaility of surgery available to you, and I have never researched it for myself...however, when ect was recommended, I had thought quite a bit about VNS. The video link was compelling...and if you could secure excellent care...maybe?
>
> When I took namenda, I noticed nothing. There were med changes at the time, and I was responding to nothing...so I don't have any information to add...just support and encouragement. Beckett xThank you, thank you, thank you. I am encouraged by your impression of DBS and VNS. I was given the name of a neurologist in Washington D. C. by my current psychiatrist. She thinks that VNS is worth exploring. My previous doctor liked DBS. I am still resistant to having any of these procedures done. I am scared to move in this direction, but my doctor does not think that any medication will do more than produce a mild improvement.
The best Namenda did for me was nothing. During a second trial, I felt worse. I'll probably forgo a third.
:-/
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 4, 2015, at 5:46:23
In reply to Re: Memantine (Namenda) makes me feel worse. » Horse, posted by SLS on June 4, 2015, at 0:54:46
Id rather be shot to mars than do DBS.
Just my 2 cents
Posted by SLS on June 4, 2015, at 6:48:17
In reply to Re: Memantine (Namenda) makes me feel worse., posted by Lamdage22 on June 4, 2015, at 5:46:23
> Id rather be shot to mars than do DBS.
>
> Just my 2 centsIt is a difficult decision to make. However, as the years pass me by, such extreme measures grow in their appeal. In my mind, it is definitely a treatment of last resort, but I'm pretty much there. I have pretty much exhausted pharmacological approaches.
We'll see.
- Scott
Posted by mogger on June 4, 2015, at 7:45:02
In reply to Re: Memantine (Namenda) makes me feel worse. » Lamdage22, posted by SLS on June 4, 2015, at 6:48:17
Scott,
Sorry to hear you are struggling. I do think that rTMS could be an option for you. I have been treatment resistant for 25 years and am finally finding relief with rTMS. They started on the left side of my brain and it aggravated my depression after a week. We have switched to the inhibitory right side treatment and I am feeling better every day. Still early days but I am keeping my fingers crossed. Interestingly enough my doctor says that the US start on the left side of the brain but in Europe they start on the right side! Interesting. Fingers crossed for you that something will give you some relief.
Joseph
Posted by SLS on June 4, 2015, at 8:03:16
In reply to Re: Memantine (Namenda) makes me feel worse. » SLS, posted by mogger on June 4, 2015, at 7:45:02
> Scott,
>
> Sorry to hear you are struggling. I do think that rTMS could be an option for you. I have been treatment resistant for 25 years and am finally finding relief with rTMS. They started on the left side of my brain and it aggravated my depression after a week. We have switched to the inhibitory right side treatment and I am feeling better every day. Still early days but I am keeping my fingers crossed. Interestingly enough my doctor says that the US start on the left side of the brain but in Europe they start on the right side! Interesting. Fingers crossed for you that something will give you some relief.
>
> Joseph
Thanks, Joseph.Do you know what frequency Hz is being used on the right side?
- Scott
Posted by mogger on June 4, 2015, at 8:26:28
In reply to Re: Memantine (Namenda) makes me feel worse. » mogger, posted by SLS on June 4, 2015, at 8:03:16
I think 1 hz but I'll check today.
Posted by mogger on June 4, 2015, at 23:20:48
In reply to Re: Memantine (Namenda) makes me feel worse. » mogger, posted by SLS on June 4, 2015, at 8:03:16
1 Hz, 1500 pulses totaling 25 minutes, 100 % of threshold. They might add pulses tomorrow or bring me up to 105 %.
Posted by phidippus on June 11, 2015, at 0:48:13
In reply to Re: Memantine (Namenda) makes me feel worse. » tom2228, posted by SLS on May 21, 2015, at 22:29:25
You know, maybe you need a little mania, unless your manias are no fun. But if they are have you ever considered backing off some of the mood stabilizers/antipsychotics?
Eric
Posted by SLS on June 11, 2015, at 9:46:23
In reply to Re: Memantine (Namenda) makes me feel worse. » SLS, posted by phidippus on June 11, 2015, at 0:48:13
> You know, maybe you need a little mania
Yes, yes, yes!!! One of my doctors said the same thing. If we can trigger mania, we could then treat the mania and leave the antidepressants in place. I think Trileptal would be the agent I would prefer to try first.
> unless your manias are no fun.
I am a variant of bipolar I, simply because my manias are so severe and include psychotic states.
> But if they are have you ever considered backing off some of the mood stabilizers/antipsychotics?
I have tried backing off of every single psychotropic I currently take in order to reevaluate its utility and reestablish their lowest effective doses. I feel confident that my regime is close to being optimized. Right now, I am on a dosage finding mission for Parnate. 120 mg/day was too much. It left me persistently fatigued and sleepy. I deteriorate at 80 mg/day. I am comparing my responses between 90 mg/day and 100 mg/day. Parnate is the last of the agents to be tested.
I am still somewhat attracted to trying memantine once more before going for rTMS. My guess is that it will produce an exacerbation of symptoms again, but I am not certain. Is it reaching? Yes.
I hope things are better for you.
- Scott
Posted by phidippus on June 11, 2015, at 14:09:32
In reply to Re: Memantine (Namenda) makes me feel worse. » phidippus, posted by SLS on June 11, 2015, at 9:46:23
>I think Trileptal would be the agent I would prefer to try first.
Not the strongest antimanic...Is that why Trileptal?
>my manias are so severe and include psychotic states
Do you have mixed states?
>I have tried backing off of every single psychotropic I currently take in order to reevaluate its utility and reestablish their lowest effective dosesHave you tried going off all your meds?
>I feel confident that my regime is close to being optimized.
What is your regime?
>I am still somewhat attracted to trying memantine once more
Memantine is tricky. You kind of have to go up slowly and find the sweet spot-and the sweet spot is barely noticeable, but its there.
>I hope things are better for you.
Agh! I've lost my libido entirely-I'm on Luvox and I think its the culprit. I want to trade it in for mirtazapine.
Also been getting depressed-Luvox works great for the OCD but seems to do nothing for depression. How can that be?
Eric
Posted by Horse on June 11, 2015, at 15:58:17
In reply to Re: Memantine (Namenda) makes me feel worse. » phidippus, posted by SLS on June 11, 2015, at 9:46:23
You know, maybe you need a little mania, unless your manias are no fun. But if they are have you ever considered backing off some of the mood stabilizers/antipsychotics?
--------------
Interesting. I like this line of thinking.
Posted by SLS on June 11, 2015, at 19:33:16
In reply to Re: Memantine (Namenda) makes me feel worse. » SLS, posted by phidippus on June 11, 2015, at 14:09:32
> >I think Trileptal would be the agent I would prefer to try first.
>
> Not the strongest antimanic...Is that why Trileptal?Depakote and Zyprexa are practically guaranteed to put the fire out. However, Depakote leaves me more depressed and Zyprexa is not ideal because of metabolic side effects. I have recently become more impressed with Trileptal as an antimanic, at least for bipolar 2 disorder. I have seen it work very well for some people, and side effects were minimal. I tried taking Trileptal for bipolar depression, not mania. It didn't help, but it had no side effects for me. It wasn't sedating at all, and I did not gain any weight on it.
> > my manias are so severe and include psychotic states
>
> Do you have mixed states?My mania with Parnate have been somewhat dysphoric. Manias associated with Nardil were more euphoric.
> > I have tried backing off of every single psychotropic I currently take in order to reevaluate its utility and reestablish their lowest effective doses
> Have you tried going off all your meds?
Not in quite awhile. How might I profit from doing this? My untreated baseline depression leaves me virtually unable to live independently. I become severely anergic and vegetative. I become numb to my surroundings. My affect is flat and I have no motivation or interest in doing things. I spend much of my time staring into space, despite sitting in front of a TV or a movie. I am too vegetative to commit suicide.
> > I feel confident that my regime is close to being optimized.
> What is your regime?
Parnate 100 mg/day
nortriptyline 150 mg/day
Lamictal 300 mg/day
lithium 300 mg/day
Abilify 10 mg/day
prazosin 30 mg/day
> > I am still somewhat attracted to trying memantine once more> Memantine is tricky. You kind of have to go up slowly and find the sweet spot-and the sweet spot is barely noticeable, but its there.
> > I hope things are better for you.> Agh! I've lost my libido entirely-I'm on Luvox and I think its the culprit. I want to trade it in for mirtazapine.
Are there any other sigma-1 agonists besides Luvox that might help?
Did Zoloft (sigma-1 antagonist) make you feel worse?
> Also been getting depressed-Luvox works great for the OCD but seems to do nothing for depression. How can that be?
I think most people thought that the drug company's decision to request FDA approval of Luvox for OCD was a strategy to gain entry into the US market so that it may also be used off-label as an antidepressant. Unfortunately, Luvox usually sucks as an antidepressant.
Please take a look at this:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=sigma-1+mirtazapine
How did you respond to high-dose Prozac? I wonder if normal dosages of Prozac, or even Lexapro, can be combined with Luvox safely. If it were me, I would leave Luvox in place for OCD and build an antidepressant regime around it. For instance, you might explore taking Luvox, Effexor, and Remeron together. Serotonin syndrome is a concern, of course. You might want to have a thermometer and cyproheptadine on hand, just in case.
- Scott
Posted by phidippus on June 12, 2015, at 14:33:21
In reply to Re: Memantine (Namenda) makes me feel worse. » phidippus, posted by SLS on June 11, 2015, at 19:33:16
> I have recently become more impressed with Trileptal as an antimanic, at least for bipolar 2 disorder.
Trileptal worked ok for me. But just for perspective, Lyrica works ok for me as a mood stabilizer.
How about trade in Lamictal and Lithium for Trileptal?
>I am too vegetative to commit suicide.
I'm just the opposite. I become so agitated its hard to explain. I get Cotard Syndrome-I think I'm dead.
>How might I profit from doing this?
You become depressed when you are off meds? You don't cycle? The point is to get you manic, then stabilize you to a point (if there is a point).
>Prazosin
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16501816
>Are there any other sigma-1 agonists besides Luvox that might help?
I haven't tried any besides Zoloft, which was a disaster-I lived in a panic attack on Zoloft.
The only sigma agonist I'd be interested in is called Insidon.
>Prozac?
I didn't give Prozac a good trial run.
I'm wary of staying on the Luvox because of my dead libido.
I've been on Mirtazapine before, to good effect, so I'm confident in replacing the Luvox with it.
Have you tried Zonegran?
Eric
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