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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 21, 2015, at 12:31:20
What do you guys think?
I am talking drug poop out, psychosis and addiction.
Posted by Christ_empowered on October 21, 2015, at 13:37:15
In reply to 'What goes up must come down': Antidepressants, posted by Lamdage22 on October 21, 2015, at 12:31:20
Hmmmm....I think in carefully selected people, ADs can be helpful. Too many people are on ADs, often in cocktails, with bad outcomes.
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 22, 2015, at 3:34:10
In reply to Re: 'What goes up must come down': Antidepressants, posted by Christ_empowered on October 21, 2015, at 13:37:15
What i mean though is is the crash inevitable? Is it a philosophical law "what goes up must come down".
Posted by Christ_empowered on October 22, 2015, at 6:57:22
In reply to Re: 'What goes up must come down': Antidepressants, posted by Lamdage22 on October 22, 2015, at 3:34:10
not necessarily. they're ADs, not stimulants. Some people have long term success, others have success for duration of treatment (not always long term...). Some people should never be on ADs...but are anyway, because of prescribing habits.
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 22, 2015, at 8:10:08
In reply to Re: 'What goes up must come down': Antidepressants, posted by Christ_empowered on October 22, 2015, at 6:57:22
i am trying Brintellix now
Posted by Christ_empowered on October 22, 2015, at 9:48:13
In reply to Re: 'What goes up must come down': Antidepressants, posted by Lamdage22 on October 22, 2015, at 8:10:08
I hope this trial goes well for you. Personally, Wellbutrin SR has proven to be quite helpful for me. I think we have somewhat similar problems, so maybe an AD would be helpful to you, too (?) .
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 22, 2015, at 9:50:29
In reply to Re: 'What goes up must come down': Antidepressants, posted by Christ_empowered on October 22, 2015, at 9:48:13
> I hope this trial goes well for you.
Thanks, Christ empowered. You see, if there was assisted suicide in Germany, i may not even be here anymore.
Instead, i am pretty lonely because if i speak my mind, i may end up in the locked psycheward.
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 22, 2015, at 9:53:49
In reply to Re: 'What goes up must come down': Antidepressants, posted by Lamdage22 on October 22, 2015, at 9:50:29
I dont know for what reason i am suppposed to be here other than rotting and fearing the psycheward.
Posted by linkadge on October 22, 2015, at 15:49:09
In reply to Re: 'What goes up must come down': Antidepressants, posted by Lamdage22 on October 22, 2015, at 9:53:49
Antidepressants are more likely to induce cycling in individuals with bipolar. Antidepressants are not exactly "uppers" in the traditional sense.
When they work, most individuals simply feel more stabile rather than being high. Hypomanic responses may indicate bipolar.
Linkadge
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 23, 2015, at 1:36:27
In reply to Re: 'What goes up must come down': Antidepressants, posted by linkadge on October 22, 2015, at 15:49:09
> Antidepressants are more likely to induce cycling in individuals with bipolar. Antidepressants are not exactly "uppers" in the traditional sense.
>
> When they work, most individuals simply feel more stabile rather than being high. Hypomanic responses may indicate bipolar.
>
>
>
> LinkadgeInitial hypomania on Nardil though is normal. How can i be bipolar if i have never been hypomanic without Nardil?
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 23, 2015, at 7:47:50
In reply to Re: 'What goes up must come down': Antidepressants, posted by Lamdage22 on October 23, 2015, at 1:36:27
So what you are saying is that what goes up doesnt have to go down again?
Posted by Christ_empowered on October 23, 2015, at 8:20:09
In reply to Re: 'What goes up must come down': Antidepressants, posted by Lamdage22 on October 23, 2015, at 7:47:50
I think it depends on the person, the medication(s) involved, duration of treatment, etc.I think too many people are on ADs. Plenty of people seem to be on the wrong kind of AD--SSRI when something else would be good, SNRI when something less stimulating would be good, so on and so forth--and plenty of people seem to be on ADs for a looooooooong time when other treatments (possibly doing nothing) would have/could have worked.
ADs were developed as an alternative to amphetamines and the combo pills they had way back when (ThoraDex, for instance, was thorazine and dexedrine). Tofranil was developed off the Thorazine molecule. It makes you sleepy and then is activating, so docs considered it a tranquilizer w/ stimulant properties. There really isn't such thing as a true "antidepressant;" they're just drugs with different effects that help some people w/ some symptoms/problems.
Anyway..blah blah blah...not all AD treatment ends in failure and misery, lol. I've done OK on celexa and very well on Wellbutrin. Some people have even taken TCA drugs for years upon years, no big deal.
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 23, 2015, at 8:23:13
In reply to Re: 'What goes up must come down': Antidepressants, posted by Christ_empowered on October 23, 2015, at 8:20:09
I may try Nortrilen again when i finally am on Cannabidiol.
Currently, i am on 10mg Brintellix though.
Posted by linkadge on October 23, 2015, at 14:06:36
In reply to Re: 'What goes up must come down': Antidepressants, posted by Lamdage22 on October 23, 2015, at 1:36:27
If you have *never* experienced mania (or hypomania) in the absence of Nardil, then you likely do NOT have bipolar.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on October 23, 2015, at 14:11:06
In reply to Re: 'What goes up must come down': Antidepressants, posted by Lamdage22 on October 23, 2015, at 7:47:50
>So what you are saying is that what goes up >doesnt have to go down again?
No, what I am saying is that antidepressants are not uppers.
A spring in its resting position is neither stretched nor compressed.
Linkadge
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 23, 2015, at 14:16:38
In reply to Re: 'What goes up must come down': Antidepressants » Lamdage22, posted by linkadge on October 23, 2015, at 14:06:36
That is good news:)
> If you have *never* experienced mania (or hypomania) in the absence of Nardil, then you likely do NOT have bipolar.
>
> Linkadge
Posted by rjlockhart37 on October 23, 2015, at 22:15:30
In reply to Re: 'What goes up must come down': Antidepressants » Lamdage22, posted by linkadge on October 23, 2015, at 14:11:06
uppers are usally the amphetamines......sometime shey can be the methyphenidate class, but amphet's are usally the mood uppers that crash after they wear off......and its difficult to handle the crash period
effexor and wellbutrin (in my opinion) are the semi stimulant meds.....they in small way can be uppers, because wellbutrin produces a cup of coffee effect in the morning but not like ritilin totally.......it's more of a mood medication, with small cognitive enhancing properties because of it's small effect on dopamine. Effexor i've heard people get a buzz somewhat on it after it starts working, but i also read it's not good withdrawling from......but it's one of the most effective reuptake inhibitor antidepressants there are right now, it's pro type pristiq, but all these new ones are coming brillitex, serotonin modulators......
Posted by linkadge on October 24, 2015, at 19:16:44
In reply to Re: 'What goes up must come down': Antidepressants, posted by rjlockhart37 on October 23, 2015, at 22:15:30
Hi RJ,
Yes, some antidepressants can have stimulating properties. However, the goal is not to make the person UP. The goal is to take somebody who has perhaps little energy and motivation, and give them a normal level of energy and motivation.
If an individual was getting high on Effexor or wellbutrin, then I would wondering about a misdiagnosis, or the appropriateness of the medication / dose.
The best way to avoid crashing cycling, is to aim for normal. This can be hard for some individuals, who may have had depression for a long time, or who may have bipolar tendencies.
My experience is that the body doesn't try to fight off homeostasis as much as it does either extreme.
Linkadge
Posted by rjlockhart37 on October 25, 2015, at 23:45:56
In reply to Re: 'What goes up must come down': Antidepressants, posted by linkadge on October 24, 2015, at 19:16:44
yea i understand, i was just saying those two antidepressants have a stimulate that could "normalize" under stimulated people, or have low energy depression, wellbutrin even at high doses is not pleasant....long time ago I took 600mg (2 300mg XL's) of wellbutrin (the xl form, so it was 200mg bupropion for each 5 hours) and it made me feel vary wierd....i had improved concentration but it caused anxiety and i felt on edge about everything, over alert, and could not take a nap, unpleasant.... it gave me this aura feeling (which it does increase sieuzre risk above 450mg daily)
so.....like a standard dose of 300mg XL i think is excellant for a standard depression case of low energy and sluggishness, it brings the energy levels to normal, at 450mg (max dose) it can produce anxiety. Wellbutrin i rerember i never could take a nap on it, i would stay awake
so....i wasnt saying effexor or wellbutrin was an upper, it just yea...has stimulate properties but it will not produce recreational value, more for benefiting mood value, rather than recreational value
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 31, 2015, at 15:29:47
In reply to Re: 'What goes up must come down': Antidepressants, posted by linkadge on October 24, 2015, at 19:16:44
That sounds reasonable. Thanks!
> The best way to avoid crashing cycling, is to aim for normal. This can be hard for some individuals, who may have had depression for a long time, or who may have bipolar tendencies.
>
> My experience is that the body doesn't try to fight off homeostasis as much as it does either extreme.
>
> Linkadge
>
>
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 31, 2015, at 16:22:31
In reply to Re: 'What goes up must come down': Antidepressants, posted by Lamdage22 on October 31, 2015, at 15:29:47
What is normal though?
I may need my psychiatrist to monitor me closely.
Posted by linkadge on November 5, 2015, at 15:33:23
In reply to Re: 'What goes up must come down': Antidepressants, posted by Lamdage22 on October 31, 2015, at 16:22:31
I know I am (more) normal, when I am not thinking about how I feel (aka):
I feel awesome today!
I feel crappy today!As I get better, I stop thinking about doing things to make myself *feel* better, I start doing things to make myself better.
Linkadge
Posted by phidippus on December 3, 2015, at 23:17:18
In reply to 'What goes up must come down': Antidepressants, posted by Lamdage22 on October 21, 2015, at 12:31:20
not necessarily...
This is the end of the thread.
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