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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by LostBoyinNC47 on May 24, 2016, at 18:01:44
I am posting this to maybe try and help some of you...give some of you a heads up about a proposed federal administrative law change thats being pushed by the obama administration.
Before I go any further, this applies ONLY to Americans and also at this stage, would apply to those assigned a guardian ad litem to manage your SS Disability money, if awarded..."unable to manage your affairs."
Back in early May, the Social Security Administration announced that they have come up with a five criteria list, that if you apply for Social Security Disability by reason of a mental illness, and you meet all five criteria, the SS Admininstration will legally "adjudicate you as a mental defective." And then enter your name and personal information into the FBI NICS background check system as a prohibited person from buying or possession firearms.
This is a marked, dramatic departure and change from the normal way the severely mentally ill, the mentally retarded and some other unfortunates are adjudicated with this legal term, "mental defective." Currently, to have this done to you, its adversarial and it must be done in a courtroom...usually a probate court. And a Judge must be present and you have the right to hire your own private attorney as a defense...or one will be hired for you as a public defender. Its currently taken VERY SERIOUSLY to decide a person is legally incompetent, AKA "mental defective" and then strip their Second Amendment rights from them.
The proposed change will take place in sixty to ninety days from the time the SS Administration announced the proposed change. The SS Administration is currently taking "comments" about the proposed legal change, additionally, you can complain about this to your federal Senators and your Congressman to stop it...the legislature has power of the purse to stop such Executive branch overreaches, IF they want to.
I dont get Social Security Disability, but I know many of you do get it or want to get it. So Im posting this to try to help you because the change is not getting much press, unfortunately. As the mainstream mass media is generally anti-Second Amendment.
Basically, if this change goes thru, and you are awarded SS Disability in the future for say, treatment resistant depression or severe anxiety problems or bipolar or whatever...you not only will not be able to buy or possess a firearm for say, deer hunting or self defense...but you will also be assigned the very derogatory and very very serious term of "mental defective" and will not only be legally determined as disabled, you will also be legally determined to lack capacity/be mentally incompetent.
The decision will be made based upon your psych records and a group of Social Security Administration bureaucrats who decide your case will make the determination. Its basically how the VA or Veteran's Administration has been adjudicating Veterans for decades...without them even being physically present at the hearing or decision.
Sorry for the long post, but this is a serious change of the law that will affect many of you, negatively...if it is allowed to go thru.
Posted by LostBoyinNC47 on May 24, 2016, at 18:05:02
In reply to SS Disability making you a mental defective soon, posted by LostBoyinNC47 on May 24, 2016, at 18:01:44
Really good article that describes the political and legal scenario. The Hill is a DC insider online magazine.
Posted by rjlockhart37 on May 24, 2016, at 21:34:34
In reply to Re: SS Disability making you a mental defective soon, posted by LostBoyinNC47 on May 24, 2016, at 18:05:02
that does concern me because in 2012 i had a psych review, they said that i was "disorganized" when i was trying to explaining my condition, i was doing something for a thing called DARS, i did very bad on the examination (the psych, processing speed) and they wrote i had major mental deficits with processing speed, i did not do well on the psychological exams. They said i was incompetent to be referred for a job, but.....i can't live with that, i have to get a career, and do something with my life, yes the US government has helped me, but i really want to finish school and get a stable paying job, I've worked a lot in the past, the Gap, Eddie Bauer, various jobs, but from thet report on the psychological exams it said i "clearly" had mental deficits with processing information. So if that applies to me, that's not good. If they didn't take me off Dexedrine i would of not had any of these problems....the bozo doctors made a big deal with saying i had a problem, and they just let me deteriorate.
maybe if i finish school, and try to get into the work force, i truly want to have a good job and make money, don't not want to be considered a "defect" that needs to be special taken care of....
hopefully if i can just go head forward, and get a good job, i won't be considered in this category, i want to get into the work force, hopefully to finish school soon
Posted by LostBoyinNC47 on May 25, 2016, at 1:07:43
In reply to Re: SS Disability making you a mental defective soon, posted by rjlockhart37 on May 24, 2016, at 21:34:34
I suggest strongly that you contact your Senators and your Congressman and complain about this SS Administration proposal. Yes, it is a very dramatic change in departure from the legal norm. Up to current, applying for SS disability is rather straightforward, you apply, you are either accepted or denied. If you appeal, you get a lawyer who specializes in SS Disability law and appeal, if you have a case you usually are awarded Disability.
But you are NOT adjudicated as a "mental defective.!" Nor as mentally incompetent or lacking mental capacity. Nor does the SS Administration enter your info into the FBI NICS database as a "prohibited person" from buying firearms.
I realize you might not care about the not being able to buy a firearm right now. My first couple years of depression were severe and I did not care about anything other than getting some relief from the illness. However as time went on and I did get some relief, old interests returned and I got into some deer hunting and also some laid back high power rifle competition shooting.
Never say never, you dont know what you might be into or doing five or ten years down the road. And once "adjudicated a mental defective," there is no going back. Sure you can get it appealed and reversed by paying a lawyer, going to court, etc. But who wants to do that????
SS Administration has no business doing what they are proposing to do, they are not a court. They are a federal administrative agency. The formal adjudication of people as "mental defectives" or determining them to be lacking mental capacity or whatever should be left to the court system and should be left adversarial and you should be physically present to be able to face the people attempting to get you adjudicated as...fill in the blank.
Like I said, spread the word to anybody who will listen. This applies to Americans only and phone, email and complain to your Senators and your Congressman in the next week.
Eric
> that does concern me because in 2012 i had a psych review, they said that i was "disorganized" when i was trying to explaining my condition, i was doing something for a thing called DARS, i did very bad on the examination (the psych, processing speed) and they wrote i had major mental deficits with processing speed, i did not do well on the psychological exams. They said i was incompetent to be referred for a job, but.....i can't live with that, i have to get a career, and do something with my life, yes the US government has helped me, but i really want to finish school and get a stable paying job, I've worked a lot in the past, the Gap, Eddie Bauer, various jobs, but from thet report on the psychological exams it said i "clearly" had mental deficits with processing information. So if that applies to me, that's not good. If they didn't take me off Dexedrine i would of not had any of these problems....the bozo doctors made a big deal with saying i had a problem, and they just let me deteriorate.
>
> maybe if i finish school, and try to get into the work force, i truly want to have a good job and make money, don't not want to be considered a "defect" that needs to be special taken care of....
>
> hopefully if i can just go head forward, and get a good job, i won't be considered in this category, i want to get into the work force, hopefully to finish school soon
>
Posted by Chris O on May 25, 2016, at 8:50:57
In reply to SS Disability making you a mental defective soon, posted by LostBoyinNC47 on May 24, 2016, at 18:01:44
It's all an obnoxious power play with the ability to "compete" in this ever more unfettered and unfair neoliberalism as the only marker for "success" and "functionality." Call me "mentally defective" then. I'd gather that a large percentage of Americans (and people on the planet) would be "unable to manage their own affairs" given one large medical bill or other stressor. There is no real economy and there is no security. For those of us with genuine resistant-to-treatment long-term mental health issues, the stresses of this global economic nightmare are even more acute. While the intention of such actions might be good, their outcome is often draconian. Thanks for the information.
Chris
Posted by rjlockhart37 on May 26, 2016, at 0:31:19
In reply to Re: SS Disability making you a mental defective soon, posted by LostBoyinNC47 on May 25, 2016, at 1:07:43
thanks eric, if it's just firearms, thats fine, i don't have any intrest in having them, it's just if im going to considered a incompenant person and need to be taken care, like a hospital, i used to go to NA for drug, those people are 12 step people, and it did not work well with me, i want to get into life, and not have to go to meetings all the time.....i was depressed even going to their meetings
i've been encouraged by some of friends and family to have group therapy, that does not work, because there's nothing those people can do for expert speak words of advice, they can't change internal feelings....anything that patronizes me, it makes me feel like a little person
thanks for your post back to me
r
Posted by LostBoyinNC47 on May 26, 2016, at 15:00:04
In reply to Re: SS Disability making you a mental defective soon » LostBoyinNC47, posted by rjlockhart37 on May 26, 2016, at 0:31:19
Um, you should care. The SS Administration will be stripping people of their Constitutional rights....without them even being physically present. Thats called no due process of law and thats not American.
Normally, adjudicated mental defectives cannot legally enter into contracts. In plain English, if you apply for SS Disability and are awarded it and the SS Administration adjudicates you as a mental defective, you will need someone to sign for you for just about everything important...rent leases, a mortgage, student loans for graduate school, getting a checking or a savings account.
Its called "contractual capacity." Adjudicated mental defectives normally do not have contractual capacity...you become dependent on other people for EVERYTHING.
Go get a copy of the latest Black's Law Dictionary and look up the legal term of "mental defective." You wont like it. It could be you, IF you apply for Social Security Disability and get it and they "assess you" as "having some trouble managing your money in the past." Even a little bit.
The VA has been doing this to Veterans for several decades now and has been highly criticized for the process...if obama was not in there the VA process would probably have been fixed by now by Congress. Several bills have been introduced to fix the VA problem and now obama wants the VA model transferred to civilians.
Really think about it...its very serious.
later,
Eric
> thanks eric, if it's just firearms, thats fine, i don't have any intrest in having them, it's just if im going to considered a incompenant person and need to be taken care, like a hospital, i used to go to NA for drug, those people are 12 step people, and it did not work well with me, i want to get into life, and not have to go to meetings all the time.....i was depressed even going to their meetings
>
> i've been encouraged by some of friends and family to have group therapy, that does not work, because there's nothing those people can do for expert speak words of advice, they can't change internal feelings....anything that patronizes me, it makes me feel like a little person
>
> thanks for your post back to me
>
> r
Posted by Deahoidar on June 10, 2016, at 14:16:49
In reply to Re: mental defectives cant enter contracts, posted by LostBoyinNC47 on May 26, 2016, at 15:00:04
Thanks for your posting those links. It took some searching but I was able to review the draft language and the statement of legislative intent. The articles posted were rather inflammatory and stretched the facts quite a bit.
Being adjudicated mentally incompetent IS a big deal and it's not so simple as reported.
Adjudication reflects that it must be determined by a judge and court, either criminal, civil, or administrative. Parties must be notified and present. Testimony and evidence are submitted and evaluated.
Having a mental illness or psychiatric disability is a long way away from being adjudged mentally incompetent. And keep in mind that someone may be found incompetent when they don't take their meds, but fully competent when they do. It's not a one-time determination, unless perhaps someone has something progressive and advanced like Alzheimer's and is completely confused and disoriented.
So it's not "Big Bad Government and Obama" out to label all mental illness disability patients as incompetent. It's just that the VA and SS will review their records for those patients that have their benefits handled by a custodian and if so, is it because of the requirements established by law. If so, it's forwarded to The Justice Dept., which will review all such cases and determine if a competency hearing is required.
In the overwhelming majority of cases, it won't be.
This is the end of the thread.
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