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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by jonhed on June 29, 2016, at 11:52:13
In reply to Re: developing psychosis or panic attacks? » jonhed, posted by baseball55 on June 28, 2016, at 19:52:15
No don't take it like that. The things i write is just from my own experiences :-)
The valium suggestion can be a good idea to if you're not an addict!
Posted by jonhed on June 29, 2016, at 12:02:20
In reply to Re: developing psychosis or panic attacks?, posted by SLS on June 29, 2016, at 8:13:17
With perceptual i mean sight (the eyes). My english isn't the best it could be cause i'm from sweden.
I do not mean that klonopin is the only thing that works, but many other medications can make the feeling that "layers" is gone on objects. Like the world seems dead and with no life and the colors is flat or metallic.
I don't mean this in a philosophical way, but in a strictly "seeing" way.
Do you understand?Like my HPPD, which is a sort of dissociative disorder, becomes dramatically worse with antipsychotics and xanax + z-drug (therefore i'm tapering them now and it is not easy after 3 years of 15-22,5 mg zopiclone per day).
But please understand me right, and not as a all knowing besserwisser, i strictly mean the sight of the world. with the eye. i can't explain more.
Sometimes my feet looks like they're not made of flesh, like they are painted, and if i take risperdal then it become worse.
That is a lot of abstract about it actually, but i think i was sloppy in my description cause of my english.. I mean mostly HPPD symptoms.
Sorry.
I also have friends (including me) who has been abused, and then klonopin is not a wonderdrug :-)
CBT is though, for me!
Posted by porkpiehat on June 29, 2016, at 14:13:22
In reply to Re: developing psychosis or panic attacks?, posted by SLS on June 29, 2016, at 8:13:17
Avoid AAP's if you're having depersonalization symptoms? that's interesting because my worst bouts of it have been after or during trials of AAP's.
Scott you and I have had discussion about whether knowing an exact diagnosis is important in treating. Here's a good example! I am hovering between BPII and complex trauma systems. The AP's are indicated for the BPII, but if it's complex trauma then the AP's are going to worsen the depersonalization symptoms of trauma.
Interesting if this is true about the AP's, seeing as to me the depersonalization is the closest thing to "insanity" that I've probably ever felt, making me want to gobble seroquel by the handful
Posted by jonhed on June 29, 2016, at 15:24:56
In reply to Re: developing psychosis or panic attacks? » SLS, posted by porkpiehat on June 29, 2016, at 14:13:22
exactly, there's where i think some pdocs are sloppy.
Cause if you also have experienced worsening of DP symptoms when on APs, then i don't think it's just a coincidence.And if you read my post that i wrote some days ago, that i wanted to start an anti-psychotic again but can't because it's getting worse, then you feel the exact same thing as me.
My brain i telling me, "man, your getting totally insane and zyprexa has helped you in psychosis, you got to get some." But if i do, i escalate my DP symptoms 10 fold.
It's very tricky and i'm so freaking happy that my professor knows this to. She's very competent.
Posted by SLS on June 29, 2016, at 15:42:23
In reply to Re: developing psychosis or panic attacks?, posted by jonhed on June 29, 2016, at 15:24:56
I don't know if it would be helpful in your situation, but Trileptal (oxcarbazepine) can be effective in borderline personality disorder. Is there any overlap between BPD and DPD?
- Scott
Posted by jonhed on June 29, 2016, at 15:57:54
In reply to Re: developing psychosis or panic attacks? » jonhed, posted by SLS on June 29, 2016, at 15:42:23
Are you talking to me? I feel confused..
You could think that but no, there no overlap at all.
I'm very educated about my diagnose and have been worried about borderline a lot, and my psychologist says there is no indication AT ALL or some overlap between them.They can look alike, but there are a massive difference in why we act in certain ways.
I've been on lamotrigine, oxcarbamazepine, valrpoat, gabapentin and that stuff and no.
But thanks for the recommendation.
The overlap with DPD is Obsessive and Fobic.
Borderline is in a hole nother cluster so they can't overlap if you know what i mean.
That would go against icd and dsm.
If you have borderline, you have to rule out dependent and vice versa..
Posted by jonhed on June 29, 2016, at 16:18:11
In reply to Re: developing psychosis or panic attacks?, posted by jonhed on June 29, 2016, at 15:57:54
DPD persons can be clingy but not in the same way.
DPD are clingy, but don't want to be seen in a room and if they feel they get rejected from a partner, they get more and more submissive, as the borderline put up more and more demands to have the same partner around.
DPD looks for a new person to lean on directly after breakup (can be friends or whatever), because they feel like they can't do anything by themself. Even choosing what to wear to the store is hard and i want some one else to say what to wear, even if i don't really like it, because i just want to be taken care of.
As the BPD get angry and semi psychotic if the partner or friend say they don't like their clothes, and then accompanied with extreme anxiety and self hurt often.
Just small examples.
You see the BIG difference?If not, take my word on it, they can't in some way overlap. It's impossible.
I can explain more later, now i have to sleep ( its 11.10 am/pm night anyway in sweden, and i work tomorrow.)
Please don't argue about that it could overlap, so many people think i'm borderline til they get to know me and i get so frustrated and humiliated that people don't believe me at first.
But after two weeks with my psychilogist, she said "i've ruled out BPD forever. Never think about again." and now it has been over three years.
One more thing.
I'm very big at explaining things forever because i don't want no misunderstanding, i can't take that cause it gets me so anxious that i sometimes hurt myself cause i don't have words when people don't believe me. I can't take that a person don't like me, and that makes my kife very hard. I always do everything everyone says to me to do cause of this.I'm so called "self defeating"
That doesn't mean that i want people to agree with me, but just when it comes to borderline and DPD, it's a very weak spot cause it manifests itself alike for someone who don't know the reason why i act in a certain way.
Medicines though, i love when people challenge my thoughts :-)
Posted by porkpiehat on June 29, 2016, at 18:15:46
In reply to Re: developing psychosis or panic attacks?, posted by jonhed on June 29, 2016, at 16:18:11
I came up with my own BPD Dx on my own. Other people don't exist outside of my insecurities; rage that precipitates around situations of abandoment; most jobs and relationships failed. etc etc.
Every time I read the description it hits me like a ton of bricks and I'm inconsolable for a solid week.
the doctors/therapists have been off so many times that I find it hard to trust them.
Anyway I had a bad acid trip once where everything I looked at had a fearful and somewhat menacing connotation to it. That's kind of what these attacks felt like. That's why I worried about psychosis. Grandmother was schizophrenic and father is BP.
Posted by baseball55 on June 29, 2016, at 20:20:01
In reply to Re: developing psychosis or panic attacks?, posted by porkpiehat on June 29, 2016, at 18:15:46
I identify with what Jonhed (sp?) said about things seeming ugly and strange. I have had that happen a lot when I've experienced derealization. For me, though, AAP's helped almost immediately -risperdal in particular.
Posted by porkpiehat on June 29, 2016, at 23:01:59
In reply to Re: developing psychosis or panic attacks?, posted by baseball55 on June 29, 2016, at 20:20:01
Wow I had the exact opposite reaction to risperdal years ago. It helped me feel remarkably self-possessed until the depers/dereal stuff happened and I started feeling like my family weren't real people and other strange affects and violent impulses. I took too much ketamine once in my party boy days and it was similar.
Then the akasthesia and serious anxiety kicked in. My doc said "take more" and I said "you're fired"
I am new to this whole notion of dissociation/derealization/depersonalization and only fell upon it the middle of the night, needing to know why I was falling out of my body. Luckily it doesn't happen much during the day but now it's nearly every night.
What were they treating with the risperdal?
Posted by jonhed on June 30, 2016, at 13:40:10
In reply to Re: developing psychosis or panic attacks? » baseball55, posted by porkpiehat on June 29, 2016, at 23:01:59
Can it be that you have the same thing as me?
I have HPPD and Flashbacks from lsd, psilocybine and mostly dmt and salvia.It sounds like it.
I was on a lot of dextromethorphan when i was young and ketamine as well.
cause i have the same reaction to you when it comes to risperdal so, consider it?
Posted by jonhed on June 30, 2016, at 13:44:10
In reply to Re: developing psychosis or panic attacks?, posted by baseball55 on June 29, 2016, at 20:20:01
HPPD is chronic and it's the thing that causes derealization and DP for me anyway.
I think it can be different if it comes from other things maybe?
Or have you DP and that sort of things from psychedelics to?
I don't say that risperdal doesn't work for dp and dr, but not when it comes to HPPD, even as it is the same thing and DP is a symptom from HPPD.
The brain is complex, that's all i know!
Posted by baseball55 on June 30, 2016, at 18:11:19
In reply to Re: developing psychosis or panic attacks? » baseball55, posted by porkpiehat on June 29, 2016, at 23:01:59
Severe depression with psychotic features, derealization, intense anxiety. Risperdal literally brought me back in control within hours. I couldn't keep using it though. I gained weight like crazy on all the AAPs.
>
> What were they treating with the risperdal?
Posted by baseball55 on June 30, 2016, at 18:15:27
In reply to Re: developing psychosis or panic attacks?, posted by jonhed on June 30, 2016, at 13:44:10
I abused opiates before the depression started. I think I was self-medicating for a few years, but they stopped working for me, I was getting more and more depressed and suicidal. I never used psychedelics or K or other party drugs. Some LSD when I was a teenager, but that was years and years ago, long before I developed mental health problems.
What is HPPD?
Glad methadone is holding you.
> HPPD is chronic and it's the thing that causes derealization and DP for me anyway.
>
> I think it can be different if it comes from other things maybe?
>
> Or have you DP and that sort of things from psychedelics to?
>
> I don't say that risperdal doesn't work for dp and dr, but not when it comes to HPPD, even as it is the same thing and DP is a symptom from HPPD.
>
> The brain is complex, that's all i know!
Posted by Christ_empowered on June 30, 2016, at 20:07:16
In reply to Re: developing psychosis or panic attacks? » jonhed, posted by baseball55 on June 30, 2016, at 18:15:27
...have you ever tried amoxapine? My former shrink recommended it to me once. I was scared of it, because its a TCA that also partly metabolizes to loxapine, but...looking back...I kinda sorta wish I'd gone for it. Supposed to be helpful for severe and/or psychotic depression.
Posted by Horse on July 2, 2016, at 3:53:03
In reply to Re: developing psychosis or panic attacks?, posted by jonhed on June 27, 2016, at 18:46:15
I need to look up these anacronyms. So derealization is that strange feeling when things seem menacing and ugly, and I would not be able to stand up, in that I had to lay on the floor, best in my bathroom and close the door. I need to lie on the floor because only the floor can hold me up. I would feel like I was going crazy and want to tear my hair, but I never did because really that's not something I do.
This happens under extreme stress and my anxiety built up. Very interesting the mention of Xanax because after discontinuing daily Xanax maintence for maybe ten years, I haven't had one in three years. Yes, Xanax made everything worse, but I couldn't see that. Of course, during an episode, when I'd finally take an extra Xanax, my mind would clear and I'd breath deeply.
Sometimes I long for that feeling of complete freedom only Xanax would give me, especially when it was first prescibed. Then the weight of the world would lift as if a hand that had been pressing down on my chest was lifted.
Posted by baseball55 on July 2, 2016, at 18:41:15
In reply to baseball..., posted by Christ_empowered on June 30, 2016, at 20:07:16
> ...have you ever tried amoxapine? My former shrink recommended it to me once. I was scared of it, because its a TCA that also partly metabolizes to loxapine, but...looking back...I kinda sorta wish I'd gone for it. Supposed to be helpful for severe and/or psychotic depression.
I've been pretty stable on parnate and lamictal and abilify as a PRN. People have avoided TCAs with me because they can be fatal in an overdose and suicidal ideation and attempts are big issues for me.
Posted by Christ_empowered on July 4, 2016, at 20:03:57
In reply to Re: baseball..., posted by baseball55 on July 2, 2016, at 18:41:15
oh...wow...
well, I'm glad your meds are working for you, and that you only need the Abilify on a PRN basis.
How much Lamictal do you take? I'm only on 100mgs/day, but I also take other stuff, including 1200/trileptal. I've been thinking about asking to go to 150 or maybe 200, to see if that would bring about full remission of lingering depressive problems.
Posted by SLS on July 4, 2016, at 20:31:08
In reply to Re: baseball..., posted by Christ_empowered on July 4, 2016, at 20:03:57
> I'm only on 100mgs/day, but I also take other stuff, including 1200/trileptal.
In my experience, it doesn't work that way, unless there are pharmacokinetic interactions. In other words, taking 1200 mg/day of Trileptal doesn't somehow reduce the need for taking Lamictal at full therapeutic dosages. For me, no drug addition, subtraction, or dosage change ever allowed me to decrease my dosage of Lamictal (300 mg/day). Again, this is only my experience with the drugs I take. I'm sure this isn't universal. For instance, mixing blood pressure drugs would likely require a careful tweaking of each medication due to the actions of the others.
> I've been thinking about asking to go to 150 or maybe 200, to see if that would bring about full remission of lingering depressive problems.
Trileptal does not inhibit nor accelerate the metabolism of Lamictal.
What I am hoping for you is that raising the dosage of Lamictal to 200-300 mg/day, as tolerated, will make you feel better.
- Scott
Posted by baseball55 on July 5, 2016, at 19:04:17
In reply to Re: baseball..., posted by Christ_empowered on July 4, 2016, at 20:03:57
> oh...wow...
>
> well, I'm glad your meds are working for you, and that you only need the Abilify on a PRN basis.
>
> How much Lamictal do you take? I'm only on 100mgs/day, but I also take other stuff, including 1200/trileptal. I've been thinking about asking to go to 150 or maybe 200, to see if that would bring about full remission of lingering depressive problems.I take 200mg and 40mg of parnate. When I use ability, I use 10-15mg. I have never seemed to need high doses. Either drugs work or they don't raising the dose rarely helps. Good luck to you.
Posted by SLS on July 5, 2016, at 20:31:20
In reply to Re: baseball..., posted by baseball55 on July 5, 2016, at 19:04:17
> I take 200mg and 40mg of parnate. When I use ability, I use 10-15mg. I have never seemed to need high doses. Either drugs work or they don't raising the dose rarely helps.
This has not been my experience. Of course, I could be atypical. I have not yet encountered a psychiatrist who would agree with the notion you present here.
- Scott
Posted by former poster on July 27, 2016, at 19:52:12
In reply to Re: developing psychosis or panic attacks?, posted by SLS on June 29, 2016, at 8:13:17
> And be very careful with antipsychotics if you have depersonalization/derealization,
> It can be very very very much worse and it's proven and it's a lot of abstract on it.Yup.. That was my experience. Had high hopes for low dose AP's. Turned out it really exacerbated my anxiety, derealisation/derpersonalisation.
Posted by SLS on July 27, 2016, at 23:16:52
In reply to Re: developing psychosis or panic attacks? » SLS, posted by former poster on July 27, 2016, at 19:52:12
Hi.
> Yup.. That was my experience. Had high hopes for low dose AP's. Turned out it really exacerbated my anxiety, derealisation/derpersonalisation.
Just curious. Which APs were the worst for you?
- Scott
Posted by porkpiehat on July 28, 2016, at 8:58:05
In reply to Re: baseball..., posted by baseball55 on July 2, 2016, at 18:41:15
Why Parnate?
I'm wondering if there's something better than an SSRI (I've tried all the major ones).
Just lamictal isn't cutting it. Either I take the generic that doesn't do much, or the brand name that gives me increasingly scary side effects.
Posted by former poster on August 3, 2016, at 18:10:06
In reply to Re: developing psychosis or panic attacks? » former poster, posted by SLS on July 27, 2016, at 23:16:52
>Which APs were the worst for you?
I only tried one true AP and that was risperdal, which caused psychosis until I stopped.
I've tried other meds that are similar to AP's that had a negative effect on me and those were:
lithium
cyproheptadine
prazosin
lamictal
neurontin
gabitril
buspar
and a few others I can't recall right now.Neurontin caused hallucinations. All of the listed caused some degree of derealization and/or anxiety. Advice appreciated.
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