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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 13 to 37 of 48. Go back in thread:
Posted by greg rizzo on January 11, 2020, at 12:11:19
In reply to Re: TO UNDOPAMINERGIC » greg rizzo, posted by undopaminergic on January 11, 2020, at 3:57:23
When you're new here you don't realize that somrtimes there is a delay in having your message posted or you have to refresh the page to show your posting. I didn't realize that.
Funny-you're the only who complained about the duplicate posting. Do you have an insecurity or low self esteem problem that can only be temporarily appeased by putting others down to make yourself feel better? Hmmmmm
Posted by undopaminergic on January 11, 2020, at 12:21:48
In reply to Re: TO UNDOPAMINERGIC, posted by greg rizzo on January 11, 2020, at 12:11:19
> When you're new here you don't realize that somrtimes there is a delay in having your message posted or you have to refresh the page to show your posting. I didn't realize that.
>Thank you for explaining. I understand it now. Before you explained, I did not understand why you were doing it.
> Funny-you're the only who complained about the duplicate posting. Do you have an insecurity or low self esteem problem that can only be temporarily appeased by putting others down to make yourself feel better? Hmmmmm
>Sometimes, I can be irritable. I think it is in part related to my mood. It may also be that I find different things irritating than most people.
-undopaminergic
Posted by greg rizzo on January 11, 2020, at 12:31:37
In reply to Re: TO UNDOPAMINERGIC » greg rizzo, posted by undopaminergic on January 11, 2020, at 12:21:48
Nice message--thank you. Maybe we can start over in our relationsip. After all, were all seeking the same goal.
I too can be irritable, vindictive, overly sensitve or frustrated in solving our common proble. Sorry.
Posted by greg rizzo on January 11, 2020, at 16:10:19
In reply to Re: tO linkage, posted by greg rizzo on January 11, 2020, at 9:48:19
Post by Dr. Bob:
Just found this post bt D. Bob. May be an old post to you but it's new to me about augmenting Nardil.
--------------------------------------------
From the descriptions of others, research and my own experiences, I believe there are two problems with the new nardil as compared to the old:
1) new nardil is absorbed before it reaches the new intestine
2) even if new nardil does reach the new intestine, the absorbtion *rate* is off balanceThat's why placing nardil in plasmin plus enteric tabs were only partially effective. yes, more phenelzine would likely survive the trip through the stomach, but once the enteric tab dissolved, the nardil itself won't be absorbed to the maximum level without an excipient to aid it.
The best excipients to aid absorption into the small intestine are sugar invert (a.k.a. honey) and ethanol (alcohol). Sugar is quite good, but the absorbtion rate, though high, is relatively slow.As far as absorption into the small intestine, NOTHING beats alcohol. It's rate and level of absorption by the small intestine is extremely high. Obviously, I don't mean kick back shots of tequila, I'm talking mere drops of the substance.
Therefore mixing nardil with either honey or alcohol has been much more effectiv
Posted by undopaminergic on January 12, 2020, at 3:12:11
In reply to Re: TO UNDOPAMINERGIC, posted by greg rizzo on January 11, 2020, at 12:31:37
> Nice message--thank you. Maybe we can start over in our relationsip. After all, were all seeking the same goal.
> I too can be irritable, vindictive, overly sensitve or frustrated in solving our common proble. Sorry.
>Sure, I'd rather be friends than enemies.
-undopaminergic
Posted by greg rizzo on January 12, 2020, at 13:08:10
In reply to Re: TO UNDOPAMINERGIC, posted by greg rizzo on January 11, 2020, at 12:31:37
Some don't give a damn about what I'm about to post so just skip this post, go about your business, and spare me your criticism. I'm merely trying to improve the efficacy of nardil. Helpful suggestions are welcomed. So here goes:
--------------------------------------------
Facts we already know:
1.New nardil is too quickly metabolized and excreted mainly due to the acidic nature of the stomach. (or so the literature states). It is theorized that the carnuba wax coating on the old Nardil prevented this from happening. Again this is theorized.
So what can we do about the new lack of efficacy us old-timers notice compared to the old nardil formula.
---------------------------------------
Here's what I'm trying:
1.Encasing nardil tablets in empty enteric cellulose capsules.
2. Taking Bioperine which the literature says increases absorpyion and bioavailability of medication.
3. Taking an antacid hopefully to reduce the acidic nature of the stomach.
4. At Dr. Bob's suggestion, I take invert sugar honey) and a sip of alcohol. Dr. Bob's comments--"The best excipients to aid absorption into the small intestine are sugar invert (a.k.a. honey) and ethanol (alcohol). Sugar is quite good, but the absorbtion rate, though high, is relatively slow.
As far as absorption into the small intestine, NOTHING beats alcohol. It's rate and level of absorption by the small intestine is extremely high. Obviously, I don't mean gulp shots of tequila, I'm talking mere drops of alcohol.
Therefore mixing nardil with either honey or alcohol has been much more effective."
-------------------------------------------
End of dissertation, other than to say "I've only just begun to fight."
Posted by Lamdage22 on January 12, 2020, at 13:23:42
In reply to AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL, posted by greg rizzo on January 12, 2020, at 13:08:10
Why doesn't simply taking more Nardil fix the problem?
Posted by atypical on January 12, 2020, at 23:38:22
In reply to Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL, posted by Lamdage22 on January 12, 2020, at 13:23:42
> Why doesn't simply taking more Nardil fix the problem?
I think if jt is not getting absorbed properly in the first place, increasing the dose will not help. Sort of like filling a cup with a big hole in it. The water never fills up, even if you increase the amount of water being poured.
Posted by TH on January 13, 2020, at 3:01:47
In reply to Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL, posted by atypical on January 12, 2020, at 23:38:22
> > Why doesn't simply taking more Nardil fix the problem?
>
> I think if jt is not getting absorbed properly in the first place, increasing the dose will not help. Sort of like filling a cup with a big hole in it. The water never fills up, even if you increase the amount of water being poured.
>To chime in without really reading:
I have a feeling there was a theory going around about it the differences coming from the site of absorption (stomach vs intestine) due to dissolution rate.
Posted by undopaminergic on January 13, 2020, at 3:15:31
In reply to Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL, posted by atypical on January 12, 2020, at 23:38:22
> > Why doesn't simply taking more Nardil fix the problem?
>
> I think if jt is not getting absorbed properly in the first place, increasing the dose will not help. Sort of like filling a cup with a big hole in it. The water never fills up, even if you increase the amount of water being poured.
>If the bioavailability of ("new") Nardil were 0%, you would be right. For example, hypothetically, if the bioavailability of old Nardil were 100% and only 50% for the new Nardil, then taking the double amount of new Nardil would be equivalent to taking a normal dose of the old Nardil.
-undopaminergic
Posted by Lamdage22 on January 13, 2020, at 3:31:21
In reply to Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL, posted by undopaminergic on January 13, 2020, at 3:15:31
When I took in excess of 90mg Nardil, I went hypertensive. 180 or 190. So... do you know what I am trying to say?
Posted by undopaminergic on January 13, 2020, at 3:40:17
In reply to Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL, posted by Lamdage22 on January 13, 2020, at 3:31:21
> When I took in excess of 90mg Nardil, I went hypertensive. 180 or 190. So... do you know what I am trying to say?
>I suppose you're suggesting that taking higher doses of Nardil can be risky. But if bioavailability were only 50% of normal, you could take double the normal dose without getting more phenelzine into your circulation.
-undopaminergic
Posted by Lamdage22 on January 13, 2020, at 3:41:42
In reply to Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL, posted by undopaminergic on January 13, 2020, at 3:40:17
I think if there is a problem, it can be fixed by taking more. It might be a waste of time and energy to try to make the old Nardil.
Posted by undopaminergic on January 13, 2020, at 3:52:50
In reply to Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL, posted by Lamdage22 on January 13, 2020, at 3:41:42
> I think if there is a problem, it can be fixed by taking more. It might be a waste of time and energy to try to make the old Nardil.
>I'm also wondering whether there might be a bit of placebo at play here.
-undopaminergic
Posted by greg rizzo on January 13, 2020, at 3:59:58
In reply to Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL, posted by Lamdage22 on January 12, 2020, at 13:23:42
Seems not to help because no matter how much you take, it is broken down by the acidic nature of the stomach and then I believe it is processed and excreted by the liver. It never gets the chance to get to the int6estinal tract where effective absorption occurs.
Posted by greg rizzo on January 13, 2020, at 4:01:32
In reply to Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL, posted by atypical on January 12, 2020, at 23:38:22
CORRECT ATYPICAL.
Posted by greg rizzo on January 13, 2020, at 4:06:02
In reply to Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL, posted by Lamdage22 on January 13, 2020, at 3:31:21
Yes I do and the question is: did you enjoy your hypertensive crisis that could have ended your luife?
Would you like to try that dose again and end up in th ER or worse.
Posted by Lamdage22 on January 13, 2020, at 4:08:58
In reply to Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL, posted by greg rizzo on January 13, 2020, at 4:06:02
Relax, I just took some nifedipine. It's not like I just waited for it to pass.
Posted by Lamdage22 on January 13, 2020, at 4:09:42
In reply to Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL, posted by undopaminergic on January 13, 2020, at 3:52:50
That is my suspicion, also.
> I'm also wondering whether there might be a bit of placebo at play here.
>
> -undopaminergic
>
Posted by greg rizzo on January 13, 2020, at 4:12:48
In reply to Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL, posted by undopaminergic on January 13, 2020, at 3:40:17
I don't know about that. I get your theory but I just know if doing this and risking a hypertensive crisis is likely not worth the risk.
Good point that you make. I'll confess I just don't the answer you're looking for.
Posted by greg rizzo on January 13, 2020, at 4:15:40
In reply to Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL, posted by Lamdage22 on January 13, 2020, at 3:41:42
To each his own.
I'm going to try my method and I would be very interested to see if your method works. Let me know your results.
Posted by Lamdage22 on January 13, 2020, at 4:16:39
In reply to Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL, posted by greg rizzo on January 13, 2020, at 4:12:48
Sorry if there was a misunderstanding. I don't suggest that you do what i did. This was 9 years ago and I was maybe 21. You could however talk to your doctor and see what he thinks about raising the dose. The hypertension was created by taking WAY more. Not just a little more. In what ways are you not covered by Nardil? Depression or Anxiety?
Posted by Lamdage22 on January 13, 2020, at 4:18:29
In reply to Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL, posted by greg rizzo on January 13, 2020, at 4:15:40
@greg: I didn't take Nardil for 8 years, because it sent me into major psychosis. I think you misunderstood. I'm just saying that if it wasn't absorbed, then why did I get a hypertensive crisis?
Posted by greg rizzo on January 13, 2020, at 4:19:00
In reply to Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL, posted by undopaminergic on January 13, 2020, at 3:52:50
With all due respect I don't agree.
By all means, increase your dose of nardil you believe will work and apprise me of your results.
Posted by greg rizzo on January 13, 2020, at 4:27:06
In reply to Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL, posted by Lamdage22 on January 13, 2020, at 4:18:29
Not positive but the could have too high a dosage of nardil, but also there are so many medications that are contraindicated for use with nardil. There are a ton of meds that could cause a hypertensive crisis. It's somewhat different for each individua, but I have reacted adversely to cold meds, too much caffeine, tramadol, SSRI', Robitussin and a multitude of others.
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