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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by rianny on October 9, 2003, at 19:22:39
I was taking Omega 3-6-9 and Niacine (likely to be niacinamite) for my anxiety and fatigue. They did not seem to work.
Today, I bought a product called "Amino 2000" by Ultimate Nutrition. I just wanted to buy L-Tyrosine, but they did not have separate one, so I kind of bought all-in-one product.
So, this product contains the following:
Each serving (3 tablets) contains:
L-Leucine 756mg
L-Isoleucine 376mg
L-Valine 296mg
L-Lysine 636mg
L-Threonine 233mg
L-Methionine 126mg
L-Phenylalanine 234mg
L-Tryptophan 156mgL-Arginine 112mg
L-Aspartic Acid 626mg
L-Cystine/Cystein 224mg
L-Alanine 308mg
L-Glutamic Acid 1002mg
L-Glycine 116mg
L-Histidine 126mg
L-Proline 252mg
L-Serine 238mg
L-Tyrosine 210mgIt seems like it covers lots of amino acids. I'm just wondering if this product is what I'm supposed to take for energy and confidence. Please add more supplements that I can try for energy and confidence if you know some.
Also is it better to consume amino acids before meal or after?
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 10, 2003, at 10:26:02
In reply to Amino acids question, posted by rianny on October 9, 2003, at 19:22:39
> I was taking Omega 3-6-9 and Niacine (likely to be niacinamite) for my anxiety and fatigue. They did not seem to work.
>
> Today, I bought a product called "Amino 2000" by Ultimate Nutrition. I just wanted to buy L-Tyrosine, but they did not have separate one, so I kind of bought all-in-one product.
>
> So, this product contains the following:
>
> Each serving (3 tablets) contains:
>
> L-Leucine 756mg
> L-Isoleucine 376mg
> L-Valine 296mg
> L-Lysine 636mg
> L-Threonine 233mg
> L-Methionine 126mg
> L-Phenylalanine 234mg
> L-Tryptophan 156mg
>
> L-Arginine 112mg
> L-Aspartic Acid 626mg
> L-Cystine/Cystein 224mg
> L-Alanine 308mg
> L-Glutamic Acid 1002mg
> L-Glycine 116mg
> L-Histidine 126mg
> L-Proline 252mg
> L-Serine 238mg
> L-Tyrosine 210mg
>
> It seems like it covers lots of amino acids. I'm just wondering if this product is what I'm supposed to take for energy and confidence.Looks like hydrolyzed soya protein, based on the high glutamate level.
One of the reasons for using pure tyrosine, or pure phenylalanine, is that the other amino acids are not present. Amino acids, as a class of similar chemistry, can compete with each other inside your body. By taking a purified amino acid, on an empty stomach, you give the single amino acid virtually unhindered access to the transporters and enzymes whose function you wish to enhance.
If you're not digesting protein efficiently, or are under some physiological stress (like body building, a rather artificial state), using pre-digested (hydrolyzed) protein guarantees you'll get the aminos into the blood. But, like I said, to use a particular amino as a treatment, you would do better to have it pure to begin with. This stuff might work, but it might not.
> Please add more supplements that I can try for energy and confidence if you know some.
Energy:
B-vitamins in general
NADH in particular (a special form of B-3)
TMG trimethylglycine, also known as betaine (but do not use betaine hydrochloride).> Also is it better to consume amino acids before meal or after?
On an otherwise empty stomach. At least one half hour before a meal.Lar
Posted by DSCH on October 10, 2003, at 19:24:15
In reply to Re: Amino acids question » rianny, posted by Larry Hoover on October 10, 2003, at 10:26:02
Larry,
Previous threads on PB on amino acid supplemention weren't very clear on this point and I'd like you to comment on it if you may: if increased synthesis of dopamine and norepinepherine is desired, which amino acid is generally the most effective?
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 10, 2003, at 19:49:41
In reply to L-Tyrosine vs. L-Phenylalanine » Larry Hoover, posted by DSCH on October 10, 2003, at 19:24:15
> Larry,
>
> Previous threads on PB on amino acid supplemention weren't very clear on this point and I'd like you to comment on it if you may: if increased synthesis of dopamine and norepinepherine is desired, which amino acid is generally the most effective?Tyrosine, hands down. They each have similar molecular weight, so you can compare them by weight. The "yield" from phenylalanine, in terms of dopamine, is no more than 25% that of tyrosine, and may be less than that, due to variables such as genetic factors, dietary history, vitamin stutus, etc.
So, 500 mg tyrosine has the effect of at least 2 grams phenylalanine, from a dopamine-synthesis perspective.
Lar
Posted by DSCH on October 10, 2003, at 21:08:12
In reply to Re: L-Tyrosine vs. L-Phenylalanine » DSCH, posted by Larry Hoover on October 10, 2003, at 19:49:41
> > Larry,
> >
> > Previous threads on PB on amino acid supplemention weren't very clear on this point and I'd like you to comment on it if you may: if increased synthesis of dopamine and norepinepherine is desired, which amino acid is generally the most effective?
>
> Tyrosine, hands down. They each have similar molecular weight, so you can compare them by weight. The "yield" from phenylalanine, in terms of dopamine, is no more than 25% that of tyrosine, and may be less than that, due to variables such as genetic factors, dietary history, vitamin stutus, etc.
>
> So, 500 mg tyrosine has the effect of at least 2 grams phenylalanine, from a dopamine-synthesis perspective.
>
> LarReferences? Please and thank you? ;-)
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 11, 2003, at 9:45:34
In reply to L-Tyrosine, amino molecular-weight champ? ;-) » Larry Hoover, posted by DSCH on October 10, 2003, at 21:08:12
> > > Larry,
> > >
> > > Previous threads on PB on amino acid supplemention weren't very clear on this point and I'd like you to comment on it if you may: if increased synthesis of dopamine and norepinepherine is desired, which amino acid is generally the most effective?
> >
> > Tyrosine, hands down. They each have similar molecular weight, so you can compare them by weight. The "yield" from phenylalanine, in terms of dopamine, is no more than 25% that of tyrosine, and may be less than that, due to variables such as genetic factors, dietary history, vitamin stutus, etc.
> >
> > So, 500 mg tyrosine has the effect of at least 2 grams phenylalanine, from a dopamine-synthesis perspective.
> >
> > Lar
>
> References? Please and thank you? ;-)I'm just firing up a new 'puter, so my links/favourites are not up to speed. I don't know that this is my "best" link, but it covers the information. BTW, it suggests 20% comparative yield, but we're dealing with estimates/educated guesses, in any case.
Lar
http://www.neuroreplete.com/Phenylalanine%20does%20not%20work%20nearly%20as%20well.htm
Posted by DSCH on October 11, 2003, at 13:56:01
In reply to Re: L-Tyrosine, amino molecular-weight champ? ;-) » DSCH, posted by Larry Hoover on October 11, 2003, at 9:45:34
> > > > Larry,
> > > >
> > > > Previous threads on PB on amino acid supplemention weren't very clear on this point and I'd like you to comment on it if you may: if increased synthesis of dopamine and norepinepherine is desired, which amino acid is generally the most effective?
> > >
> > > Tyrosine, hands down. They each have similar molecular weight, so you can compare them by weight. The "yield" from phenylalanine, in terms of dopamine, is no more than 25% that of tyrosine, and may be less than that, due to variables such as genetic factors, dietary history, vitamin stutus, etc.
> > >
> > > So, 500 mg tyrosine has the effect of at least 2 grams phenylalanine, from a dopamine-synthesis perspective.
> > >
> > > Lar
> >
> > References? Please and thank you? ;-)
>
> I'm just firing up a new 'puter, so my links/favourites are not up to speed. I don't know that this is my "best" link, but it covers the information. BTW, it suggests 20% comparative yield, but we're dealing with estimates/educated guesses, in any case.
>
> Lar
>
> http://www.neuroreplete.com/Phenylalanine%20does%20not%20work%20nearly%20as%20well.htmOK, this statement grabbed me...
"In use of L-tyrosine we have found that 3,000 mg per day with 300 mg per day of 5-HTP is an ideal ratio for treatment and has minimal side effects if used properly"What "treatment" are they refering to? And who are these folks exactly?
Posted by Franz on October 11, 2003, at 17:16:45
In reply to Re: L-Tyrosine, amino molecular-weight champ? ;-), posted by DSCH on October 11, 2003, at 13:56:01
>
> What "treatment" are they refering to? And who are these folks exactly?
>sorry to intervene, but hy don´t you read the website and find out for yourself?.
Posted by DSCH on October 11, 2003, at 17:44:36
In reply to Re: L-Tyrosine, amino molecular-weight champ? ;-) » DSCH, posted by Franz on October 11, 2003, at 17:16:45
> >
> > What "treatment" are they refering to? And who are these folks exactly?
> >
>
> sorry to intervene, but hy don´t you read the website and find out for yourself?.The top-level page that would presumably explain just who and what "NeuroResearch" is not online at the moment. I suppose I could be accussed of laziness for not going through their extensive site map and interpolating from those pages. Then again why not ask he who bookmarked the page some time ago when the home page may have been up? ;-)
Posted by Franz on October 11, 2003, at 18:32:15
In reply to Re: L-Tyrosine, amino molecular-weight champ? ;-) » Franz, posted by DSCH on October 11, 2003, at 17:44:36
> > >
> > > What "treatment" are they refering to? And who are these folks exactly?
> > >
> >
> > sorry to intervene, but hy don´t you read the website and find out for yourself?.
>
> The top-level page that would presumably explain just who and what "NeuroResearch" is not online at the moment. I suppose I could be accussed of laziness for not going through their extensive site map and interpolating from those pages. Then again why not ask he who bookmarked the page some time ago when the home page may have been up? ;-)
>then you ca use google cache
search for NeuroResearch.com and click cacheor use www.archive.org
not difficult
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 11, 2003, at 19:20:14
In reply to Re: L-Tyrosine, amino molecular-weight champ? ;-), posted by DSCH on October 11, 2003, at 13:56:01
> > http://www.neuroreplete.com/Phenylalanine%20does%20not%20work%20nearly%20as%20well.htm
>
> OK, this statement grabbed me...
> "In use of L-tyrosine we have found that 3,000 mg per day with 300 mg per day of 5-HTP is an ideal ratio for treatment and has minimal side effects if used properly"
>
> What "treatment" are they refering to? And who are these folks exactly?I don't know much about them, as an entity, but the main page is up right now, anyway. Apparently, they have patents on their amino acid therapy protocol. Intriguing that you can patent such a thing.
The link I gave is a treatment protocol for "neurotransmitter dysfunction". I liked the fancy map of phenylalanine metabolism, which is probably why I saved the link. If I recall correctly, I was trying to answer the exact question you first posed, with respect to the dopaminergic effects of phenylalanine vs. tyrosine.
Lar
Posted by tealady on October 11, 2003, at 20:24:58
In reply to Re: L-Tyrosine, amino molecular-weight champ? ;-) » DSCH, posted by Larry Hoover on October 11, 2003, at 19:20:14
>I liked the fancy map of phenylalanine metabolism, which is probably why I saved the link.
http://www.genome.ad.jp/dbget-bin/show_pathway?hsa00400+5053click on anything ..like say tyrosine metabolism to get that map..similar with enzymes
I got this link from somewhere on this forum a while ago
(couldn't find the ones I'm interested in though)Jan
Posted by joebob on October 13, 2003, at 21:45:27
In reply to Re: L-Tyrosine, amino molecular-weight champ? ;-) » DSCH, posted by Larry Hoover on October 11, 2003, at 19:20:14
to me
what i have found, and am not the only one is that taking the tyrosine with p-5-p makes it work better at a lower dose
i have to take a lot of plain old b-6 to get much of an effect.....p-5-p is a whole different matter, and for what it's worth, it doesn't seem to cause as much of the wild dreaming s/e
joebob
Posted by DSCH on October 14, 2003, at 9:59:42
In reply to not sure but it sounds like the scientolgy folks, posted by joebob on October 13, 2003, at 21:45:27
Seriously though, my most positive responses so far to anything I've taken have been amino acids (DLPA or soy protein drink powders). I'm going to give the "balanced" tyrosine + 5-HTP program a shot.
If you have slow catecholamine synthesis and active MAO, then seems possible to me that release agents and reuptake inhibitors aren't going to do much for you or indeed only make your problems worse.
Posted by DSCH on October 14, 2003, at 10:28:45
In reply to Amino acids question, posted by rianny on October 9, 2003, at 19:22:39
What I'm considering here as my new plan...
multivitamin/mineral (weak on Ca and Mg)
additional calcium + magnesium
tyrosine (1000mg tid)
5-HTP (300 mg/day, when to take?)
grape seed OPCs
and....Choline? CDP-choline? PC or PS? Inositol? I'm not quite happy with my short term memory lately.
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 17, 2003, at 15:26:21
In reply to Larry, how about acetylcholine?, posted by DSCH on October 14, 2003, at 10:28:45
> What I'm considering here as my new plan...
>
> multivitamin/mineral (weak on Ca and Mg)
> additional calcium + magnesium
> tyrosine (1000mg tid)
> 5-HTP (300 mg/day, when to take?)
> grape seed OPCs
> and....
>
> Choline? CDP-choline? PC or PS? Inositol? I'm not quite happy with my short term memory lately.Short-term memory can be troubling to "treat". It tends to be related to other comorbidities, such as insomnia or depression. I don't know that you can just influence short-term memory.
If you want to go the choline route, I'd generally suggest a broad approach. I.e. all the phospholipids at the same time. The easiest way to do that is to eat soya lecithin granules (any health food store has those), and add in some phosphatidylserine caps (they're expensive, but soya lecithin doesn't have much PS).
I had an excellent response to NADH, which not only increased my resiliency and level of function, but also positively influenced both short- and long-term memory.
B-12 may have an influence, as might selenium and alphalipoic acid.
Lar
This is the end of the thread.
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