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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 63. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by DSCH on October 23, 2003, at 21:23:02
I'm starting this thread up so Francesco and I will have a place to talk supplements again, but if anyone wants to weigh in that would be great. :-)
Here's what I consider the basics for combating ADD of all the various types right now, i.e. the ones to try to first:
L-tyrosine
vitamins B6 and CWith these being tried next:
zinc
magnesium
calcium
potassium
vitamins A, E, and the other Bs
fish oils/omega-3 fatty acids
D-phenylalanine
L-tryptophan or 5-HTP
oligomeric proanthocyandinsThings that might be worth a shot:
herbs...
bacopa
ashwaghanda
gingko
ginseng
huperzine A
maca
SJW
vinpocatineother...
royal jelly
lecithin
choline
PS/PC
acetyl-l-carnitine
inositol
pregeneloneAnybody agree/disagree or have things to add, go right ahead. Any contraindications?
Posted by DSCH on October 23, 2003, at 21:30:08
In reply to ADD alternative strategies, posted by DSCH on October 23, 2003, at 21:23:02
forgot these:
NADH
TMG
CoQ10
SAMe
licorice root
Posted by taylor18 on October 24, 2003, at 1:21:23
In reply to ADD alternative strategies, posted by DSCH on October 23, 2003, at 21:23:02
Sounds like you're informed of some of the options.
Hit me up on ICQ 339899408 and maybe we can put together an ongoing list together.
Some things you didn't mention:
-AD-FX
-Ambrotose
-Krill oil
-seal oilI have some good bookmarks and research resources. We should compile a central list - more the better.
Posted by rianny on October 24, 2003, at 1:38:33
In reply to Re: ADD alternative strategies, posted by taylor18 on October 24, 2003, at 1:21:23
Don't your stomach feel weird if you take that many pills??? Also, is it really safe to take extra supplements???
Posted by tealady on October 24, 2003, at 3:08:58
In reply to ADD alternative strategies, posted by DSCH on October 23, 2003, at 21:23:02
I was wondering if Brewer's yeast can be considered as an alternative to a multiB?
I'm looking for a new multiB cover..any other suggestions for a natural multiB alternative most welcome.
Would royal jelly would be one..or is that mostly B5? I haven't been able to get that for the last few years. I think there is a problem with bees in the past few years.Jan
Posted by DSCH on October 24, 2003, at 9:05:38
In reply to Re: ADD alternative strategies, posted by rianny on October 24, 2003, at 1:38:33
> Don't your stomach feel weird if you take that many pills??? Also, is it really safe to take extra supplements???
LOL Not all at once!! Just a list to work through, adding *and* subtracting from as you go.
Posted by jparsell82 on October 24, 2003, at 12:58:30
In reply to ADD alternative strategies, posted by DSCH on October 23, 2003, at 21:23:02
> I'm starting this thread up so Francesco and I will have a place to talk supplements again, but if anyone wants to weigh in that would be great. :-)
>
> Here's what I consider the basics for combating ADD of all the various types right now, i.e. the ones to try to first:
>
> L-tyrosine
> vitamins B6 and C
>
> With these being tried next:
>
> zinc
> magnesium
> calcium
> potassium
> vitamins A, E, and the other Bs
> fish oils/omega-3 fatty acids
> D-phenylalanine
> L-tryptophan or 5-HTP
> oligomeric proanthocyandins
>
> Things that might be worth a shot:
>
> herbs...
> bacopa
> ashwaghanda
> gingko
> ginseng
> huperzine A
> maca
> SJW
> vinpocatine
>
> other...
> royal jelly
> lecithin
> choline
> PS/PC
> acetyl-l-carnitine
> inositol
> pregenelone
>
> Anybody agree/disagree or have things to add, go right ahead. Any contraindications?
I think it all depends on which subtype of ADD you have. I had negative results from Inositol and Vinpocetine. I got a question for you about Pregnenolone. Is pregnenolone sulphate the same thing as the pregnenolone sold on websites?
Posted by jparsell82 on October 24, 2003, at 13:00:07
In reply to Re: ADD alternative strategies, posted by jparsell82 on October 24, 2003, at 12:58:30
I've heard of DMAE being helpful with ADD.... possibly Piracetam?
Posted by DSCH on October 24, 2003, at 19:16:36
In reply to Re: ADD alternative strategies, posted by jparsell82 on October 24, 2003, at 13:00:07
> I've heard of DMAE being helpful with ADD.... possibly Piracetam?
You can't get Piracetam OTC or by RX in the US. So it's not one of the more convienent options.
DMAE is another methyl-donor like SAMe and TMG/DMG. Yes, it should be on the list.
http://www.mind-boosters.com/chapter_10.html
Posted by DSCH on October 24, 2003, at 19:21:24
In reply to Re: ADD alternative strategies, posted by jparsell82 on October 24, 2003, at 12:58:30
> I think it all depends on which subtype of ADD you have. I had negative results from Inositol and Vinpocetine.
Of course, many of these won't help a given person, but with the state of ADD diagnosis such as it is, it is hard to know before hand what will work or not. Like a psychiatrist with a patient, a self-directed sufferer can only perform the experiment and give the supplement a trial to know for sure.
>I got a question for you about Pregnenolone. Is pregnenolone sulphate the same thing as the pregnenolone sold on websites?
I wouldn't know for certain.
Posted by DSCH on October 24, 2003, at 19:24:56
In reply to Re: ADD alternative strategies, posted by taylor18 on October 24, 2003, at 1:21:23
> Sounds like you're informed of some of the options.
Informed enough to be dangerous I suppose. YMMV. ;-)
> Hit me up on ICQ 339899408 and maybe we can put together an ongoing list together.
I ditched ICQ when I did a clean install of XP. Never used it really.
> Some things you didn't mention:
> -AD-FX
> -AmbrotoseNever heard of those before.
> -Krill oil
> -seal oilDifferent sources of omega-3?
> I have some good bookmarks and research resources. We should compile a central list - more the better.
Sounds like a good idea. I could host it on my web page.
Posted by DSCH on October 24, 2003, at 19:36:02
In reply to Re: ADD alternative strategies, posted by tealady on October 24, 2003, at 3:08:58
> I was wondering if Brewer's yeast can be considered as an alternative to a multiB?
I don't know how complete that would be. Larry might know.
> I'm looking for a new multiB cover..any other suggestions for a natural multiB alternative most welcome.
> Would royal jelly would be one..or is that mostly B5?I've found few detailed and objective descriptions of Royal Jelly, one did appear to say that it had a decent spectrum of the Bs. It is richest in pantothenic acid though IIRC. It also contained unique forms of fatty acids. I have a bottle of RJ softgells from GNC but I am going to set it aside for the moment as I am going to give TMG another try. I will try and find those web sites again and post them here regarding RJ.
>I haven't been able to get that for the last few years. I think there is a problem with bees in the past few years.
Africanization? :-/
GNCs should have it in softgell form. I wonder about how it is processed though.
Here's a non-freeze dried bulk source. Expensive but you get a lot with a single purchase with the first-time customer discount.
http://www.beealive.com/
Posted by john1022 on October 24, 2003, at 19:50:59
In reply to Re: ADD alternative strategies » jparsell82, posted by DSCH on October 24, 2003, at 19:21:24
Don't forget 5HTP and L-trytophan!
5HTP has been shown to be very effective for OCD in patients suffering from low serotonin levels (both of which apparently go hand in hand)
5HTP alone elliminates 80-90% of my depression and anxiety. Although I don't have a severe form of OCD, I do notice that I don't twirl the hair on the top of my head constantly when I am sitting down when I am taking 5HTP and generally have less racing thoughts
It may be worth a shot for some. I think there are lots of studies showing it's effectiveness on the net if you search under "5htp and OCD"
You could also go to Barnes and Noble and flip through or buy the book that Dr. Michael Murray wrote about 5HTP to find more detailed info about it treating OCD. Good luck!
Posted by john1022 on October 24, 2003, at 19:54:10
In reply to Re: ADD alternative strategies, posted by john1022 on October 24, 2003, at 19:50:59
oops I guess it was on someone's list. The fact that low serotonin levels and OCD are often associated would make me want to try 5HTP before I tried anything else personally. Good luck to all!
Posted by DSCH on October 24, 2003, at 19:59:09
In reply to Re: ADD alternative strategies, posted by john1022 on October 24, 2003, at 19:54:10
> oops I guess it was on someone's list. The fact that low serotonin levels and OCD are often associated would make me want to try 5HTP before I tried anything else personally. Good luck to all!
I have it on this ADD list because there are those who are ADD-OCD co-morbid which Amen calls "Overfocused ADD". Also it is conceivable that supplementing exclusively with L-tyrosine might drive serotonin down, so one may want to try for a balance of L-tyrosine/5-HTP (like what I'm doing now, idea curtosey of Larry and his link to NeuroResearch).
Posted by DSCH on October 24, 2003, at 19:59:44
In reply to Re: ADD alternative strategies, posted by tealady on October 24, 2003, at 3:08:58
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20030903/msgs/263701.html
Posted by Franz on October 24, 2003, at 21:12:18
In reply to Piracetam and DMAE » jparsell82, posted by DSCH on October 24, 2003, at 19:16:36
> > I've heard of DMAE being helpful with ADD.... possibly Piracetam?
>
> You can't get Piracetam OTC or by RX in the US. So it's not one of the more convienent options.yes you can biologicsonline.com
>
> DMAE is another methyl-donor like SAMe and TMG/DMG. Yes, it should be on the list.
>
> http://www.mind-boosters.com/chapter_10.html
>
>
Posted by DSCH on October 24, 2003, at 21:38:11
In reply to Re: Piracetam and DMAE, posted by Franz on October 24, 2003, at 21:12:18
"grey market"? They don't mention who, what, or where they are.
Posted by DSCH on October 24, 2003, at 21:54:41
In reply to Re: Piracetam and DMAE » Franz, posted by DSCH on October 24, 2003, at 21:38:11
> "grey market"? They don't mention who, what, or where they are.
Nevermind. I found a street address in tiny type. I do not wish to follow this line of discussion any further as I am uncertain whether it would be in contravention of forum policy.
"Please don't use this site to exchange information that could be used to import into the US prescription medication without a prescription or medication that hasn't been approved by the US Food and Drug Administration" - Dr. Bob
Posted by jparsell82 on October 25, 2003, at 10:58:44
In reply to Piracetam, posted by DSCH on October 24, 2003, at 21:54:41
> > "grey market"? They don't mention who, what, or where they are.
>
> Nevermind. I found a street address in tiny type. I do not wish to follow this line of discussion any further as I am uncertain whether it would be in contravention of forum policy.
>
> "Please don't use this site to exchange information that could be used to import into the US prescription medication without a prescription or medication that hasn't been approved by the US Food and Drug Administration" - Dr. BobIt's not a prescription drug anymore. It just recently became available in the US as a nutritional supplement. Probably because it has virtually no side effects and it's impossible to overdose. Hold on, I'll post some info to back up my claim.
Posted by jparsell82 on October 25, 2003, at 11:21:00
In reply to Piracetam is now available, posted by jparsell82 on October 25, 2003, at 10:58:44
www.uniquenutrition.net
www.sherwyns.comThere's 2 US suppliers.
"BTW piracetam is available OTC in US so you do not need to order from overseas." -from http://imminst.org
You can check out this forum for some good info:
http://imminst.org/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=6&t=1611&s=
Posted by DSCH on October 25, 2003, at 17:46:23
In reply to Re: Piracetam is now available, posted by jparsell82 on October 25, 2003, at 11:21:00
> www.uniquenutrition.net
> www.sherwyns.com
>
> There's 2 US suppliers.
>
> "BTW piracetam is available OTC in US so you do not need to order from overseas." -from http://imminst.org
>
> You can check out this forum for some good info:
> http://imminst.org/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=6&t=1611&s=If true, this is indeed great news. :-)
Posted by McPac on October 25, 2003, at 19:36:16
In reply to Re: ADD alternative strategies, posted by john1022 on October 24, 2003, at 19:50:59
John,
do you take meds or just the 5htp for your depression and anxiety?
How much 5htp do you take a day?Thanks!
Posted by McPac on October 25, 2003, at 19:38:31
In reply to Re: Piracetam is now available » jparsell82, posted by DSCH on October 25, 2003, at 17:46:23
Can someone take 5htp with an ssri? I know that you're not supposed to take tryptophan with an ssri...what about 5htp and an ssri?
Thanks!
Posted by DSCH on October 25, 2003, at 21:27:20
In reply to Re: Piracetam is now available, posted by McPac on October 25, 2003, at 19:38:31
> Can someone take 5htp with an ssri? I know that you're not supposed to take tryptophan with an ssri...what about 5htp and an ssri?
> Thanks!5-HTP is one step away from becoming serotonin, unlike L-tryptophan which is two. I'm not sure how their mobility across the BBB match up. I would assume people have different rate limiting steps for synthesis too.
I don't think it is necessarily set down in Leviticus that either would be absolute no-no's... Indeed you can get 5-HTP+SJW blend OTC, though SJW appears to be a weak SRI/weak MAOI rather than a strong SSRI. I would think it would be a good idea to have a pdoc consulting on this though as serotonin syndrome is a possibility.
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