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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 12 to 36 of 63. Go back in thread:
Posted by DSCH on October 24, 2003, at 19:36:02
In reply to Re: ADD alternative strategies, posted by tealady on October 24, 2003, at 3:08:58
> I was wondering if Brewer's yeast can be considered as an alternative to a multiB?
I don't know how complete that would be. Larry might know.
> I'm looking for a new multiB cover..any other suggestions for a natural multiB alternative most welcome.
> Would royal jelly would be one..or is that mostly B5?I've found few detailed and objective descriptions of Royal Jelly, one did appear to say that it had a decent spectrum of the Bs. It is richest in pantothenic acid though IIRC. It also contained unique forms of fatty acids. I have a bottle of RJ softgells from GNC but I am going to set it aside for the moment as I am going to give TMG another try. I will try and find those web sites again and post them here regarding RJ.
>I haven't been able to get that for the last few years. I think there is a problem with bees in the past few years.
Africanization? :-/
GNCs should have it in softgell form. I wonder about how it is processed though.
Here's a non-freeze dried bulk source. Expensive but you get a lot with a single purchase with the first-time customer discount.
http://www.beealive.com/
Posted by john1022 on October 24, 2003, at 19:50:59
In reply to Re: ADD alternative strategies » jparsell82, posted by DSCH on October 24, 2003, at 19:21:24
Don't forget 5HTP and L-trytophan!
5HTP has been shown to be very effective for OCD in patients suffering from low serotonin levels (both of which apparently go hand in hand)
5HTP alone elliminates 80-90% of my depression and anxiety. Although I don't have a severe form of OCD, I do notice that I don't twirl the hair on the top of my head constantly when I am sitting down when I am taking 5HTP and generally have less racing thoughts
It may be worth a shot for some. I think there are lots of studies showing it's effectiveness on the net if you search under "5htp and OCD"
You could also go to Barnes and Noble and flip through or buy the book that Dr. Michael Murray wrote about 5HTP to find more detailed info about it treating OCD. Good luck!
Posted by john1022 on October 24, 2003, at 19:54:10
In reply to Re: ADD alternative strategies, posted by john1022 on October 24, 2003, at 19:50:59
oops I guess it was on someone's list. The fact that low serotonin levels and OCD are often associated would make me want to try 5HTP before I tried anything else personally. Good luck to all!
Posted by DSCH on October 24, 2003, at 19:59:09
In reply to Re: ADD alternative strategies, posted by john1022 on October 24, 2003, at 19:54:10
> oops I guess it was on someone's list. The fact that low serotonin levels and OCD are often associated would make me want to try 5HTP before I tried anything else personally. Good luck to all!
I have it on this ADD list because there are those who are ADD-OCD co-morbid which Amen calls "Overfocused ADD". Also it is conceivable that supplementing exclusively with L-tyrosine might drive serotonin down, so one may want to try for a balance of L-tyrosine/5-HTP (like what I'm doing now, idea curtosey of Larry and his link to NeuroResearch).
Posted by DSCH on October 24, 2003, at 19:59:44
In reply to Re: ADD alternative strategies, posted by tealady on October 24, 2003, at 3:08:58
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20030903/msgs/263701.html
Posted by Franz on October 24, 2003, at 21:12:18
In reply to Piracetam and DMAE » jparsell82, posted by DSCH on October 24, 2003, at 19:16:36
> > I've heard of DMAE being helpful with ADD.... possibly Piracetam?
>
> You can't get Piracetam OTC or by RX in the US. So it's not one of the more convienent options.yes you can biologicsonline.com
>
> DMAE is another methyl-donor like SAMe and TMG/DMG. Yes, it should be on the list.
>
> http://www.mind-boosters.com/chapter_10.html
>
>
Posted by DSCH on October 24, 2003, at 21:38:11
In reply to Re: Piracetam and DMAE, posted by Franz on October 24, 2003, at 21:12:18
"grey market"? They don't mention who, what, or where they are.
Posted by DSCH on October 24, 2003, at 21:54:41
In reply to Re: Piracetam and DMAE » Franz, posted by DSCH on October 24, 2003, at 21:38:11
> "grey market"? They don't mention who, what, or where they are.
Nevermind. I found a street address in tiny type. I do not wish to follow this line of discussion any further as I am uncertain whether it would be in contravention of forum policy.
"Please don't use this site to exchange information that could be used to import into the US prescription medication without a prescription or medication that hasn't been approved by the US Food and Drug Administration" - Dr. Bob
Posted by jparsell82 on October 25, 2003, at 10:58:44
In reply to Piracetam, posted by DSCH on October 24, 2003, at 21:54:41
> > "grey market"? They don't mention who, what, or where they are.
>
> Nevermind. I found a street address in tiny type. I do not wish to follow this line of discussion any further as I am uncertain whether it would be in contravention of forum policy.
>
> "Please don't use this site to exchange information that could be used to import into the US prescription medication without a prescription or medication that hasn't been approved by the US Food and Drug Administration" - Dr. BobIt's not a prescription drug anymore. It just recently became available in the US as a nutritional supplement. Probably because it has virtually no side effects and it's impossible to overdose. Hold on, I'll post some info to back up my claim.
Posted by jparsell82 on October 25, 2003, at 11:21:00
In reply to Piracetam is now available, posted by jparsell82 on October 25, 2003, at 10:58:44
www.uniquenutrition.net
www.sherwyns.comThere's 2 US suppliers.
"BTW piracetam is available OTC in US so you do not need to order from overseas." -from http://imminst.org
You can check out this forum for some good info:
http://imminst.org/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=6&t=1611&s=
Posted by DSCH on October 25, 2003, at 17:46:23
In reply to Re: Piracetam is now available, posted by jparsell82 on October 25, 2003, at 11:21:00
> www.uniquenutrition.net
> www.sherwyns.com
>
> There's 2 US suppliers.
>
> "BTW piracetam is available OTC in US so you do not need to order from overseas." -from http://imminst.org
>
> You can check out this forum for some good info:
> http://imminst.org/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=6&t=1611&s=If true, this is indeed great news. :-)
Posted by McPac on October 25, 2003, at 19:36:16
In reply to Re: ADD alternative strategies, posted by john1022 on October 24, 2003, at 19:50:59
John,
do you take meds or just the 5htp for your depression and anxiety?
How much 5htp do you take a day?Thanks!
Posted by McPac on October 25, 2003, at 19:38:31
In reply to Re: Piracetam is now available » jparsell82, posted by DSCH on October 25, 2003, at 17:46:23
Can someone take 5htp with an ssri? I know that you're not supposed to take tryptophan with an ssri...what about 5htp and an ssri?
Thanks!
Posted by DSCH on October 25, 2003, at 21:27:20
In reply to Re: Piracetam is now available, posted by McPac on October 25, 2003, at 19:38:31
> Can someone take 5htp with an ssri? I know that you're not supposed to take tryptophan with an ssri...what about 5htp and an ssri?
> Thanks!5-HTP is one step away from becoming serotonin, unlike L-tryptophan which is two. I'm not sure how their mobility across the BBB match up. I would assume people have different rate limiting steps for synthesis too.
I don't think it is necessarily set down in Leviticus that either would be absolute no-no's... Indeed you can get 5-HTP+SJW blend OTC, though SJW appears to be a weak SRI/weak MAOI rather than a strong SSRI. I would think it would be a good idea to have a pdoc consulting on this though as serotonin syndrome is a possibility.
Posted by Franz on October 25, 2003, at 22:55:52
In reply to Re: Piracetam and DMAE » Franz, posted by DSCH on October 24, 2003, at 21:38:11
> "grey market"? They don't mention who, what, or where they are.
yes they do
Posted by DSCH on October 25, 2003, at 23:11:38
In reply to Re: Piracetam and DMAE » DSCH, posted by Franz on October 25, 2003, at 22:55:52
> > "grey market"? They don't mention who, what, or where they are.
>
> yes they do
>
>See a later posting I made; I found their address by straining my eye... they do mention all of these in a way, but not with enough detail to satisfy me. Plus their site design is distracting.
You seem to take a curt, critical interest in what I post to the Alternative board Franz. Frankly you come off to me as being rather less than polite most of the time. I hope this is unintentional.
Posted by Franz on October 25, 2003, at 23:33:22
In reply to Franz, posted by DSCH on October 25, 2003, at 23:11:38
> > > "grey market"? They don't mention who, what, or where they are.
> >
> > yes they do
> >
> >
>
> See a later posting I made; I found their address by straining my eye... they do mention all of these in a way, but not with enough detail to satisfy me. Plus their site design is distracting.
>
> You seem to take a curt, critical interest in what I post to the Alternative board Franz. Frankly you come off to me as being rather less than polite most of the time. I hope this is unintentional.you seem not to understand some people pay high for time online
Posted by Franz on October 25, 2003, at 23:58:31
In reply to Franz, posted by DSCH on October 25, 2003, at 23:11:38
> > > "grey market"? They don't mention who, what, or where they are.
> >
> > yes they do
> >
> >
>
> See a later posting I made; I found their address by straining my eye... they do mention all of these in a way, but not with enough detail to satisfy me. Plus their site design is distracting.
>
> You seem to take a curt, critical interest in what I post to the Alternative board Franz. Frankly you come off to me as being rather less than polite most of the time. I hope this is unintentional.I am taking time offline to write this to put things clear to you, but please first tell me what is critical in these words I used: yes they do
There was a question about piracetam source in US and I replied.
Was I supposed to give full information?. Am I supposed to spend time and money online seaching what anyone can do given a web address?. Am I supposed to have young eyes, a new monitor and like a horrid flash web design?. Am I supposed to have the flash plugin?.
I am not sure if it was you some time ago that asked for some info and I replied you could find yourself or something like that. Did that offend you?.I do not have any problem with you and if you think I scan this board just to look what you are typing you could not be more wrong.
Yes, I dislike when people expect others to do their homework, but that is not a personal issue with you.
Also, have in mind that this board is reached from any place in the world so the way people express here may be quite different from your usual environment.
Best
Posted by DSCH on October 26, 2003, at 1:23:26
In reply to Re: Franz » DSCH, posted by Franz on October 25, 2003, at 23:58:31
It is within your right to critize what I post however you see fit as long as it is not done in an uncivil manner. I am not claiming that you have or have yet come close to crossing that line in the sense that Dr. Bob defines it, although I will admit to feeling somewhat put off by it the second time around. I would not be here in the first place if I did not have my own crosses to bear, so to speak. Self-critism and the critism directed at me by others on a daily basis counts significantly towards my load.
Please note though that, in turn, I have the right to NOT respond to your posts in the future if I feel they do not carry validity in view of my own purposes and standards. I also have the right to desist from using the forum in general. I can and have walked away from things in the past when I made the determination that the time and effort expended was bringing insufficient personal gain.Thank you for the time spent in formulating a clarification.
Posted by john1022 on October 26, 2003, at 7:27:05
In reply to 5-HTP/L-tryptophan + SSRI » McPac, posted by DSCH on October 25, 2003, at 21:27:20
Hi McPac,
I take 300 mgs of 5HTP a day divided throughout the day and the last dose before bed. It is very calming and usually helps me get some good sleep (possibly thanks to the niacin, magnesium, valerian root and B6 added in the Vitamin World version)
I currently do not take any other meds as AD's give me paradoxial reactions and make things 100x's worse than before I start them. I have no idea why.
I can say 5HTP cures about 90% of my depression and anxiety, the other 10% is my sleep which I am still having a problem with, but I think the 5HTP helps.
5HTP is worth a shot. I would encourage everyone to try it really as it is the one thing (along with trytophan) that directly boosts serotonin naturally, which seems to be a major cause is a lot of people's depression.
I have done a lot of researching the safety aspect of 5htp because I was worried. I came to the conclusion personally that it is absolutely nothing to worry about.
Posted by john1022 on October 26, 2003, at 8:55:10
In reply to Re: Piracetam is now available, posted by McPac on October 25, 2003, at 19:38:31
They say you are not supposed to take 5HTP together with an SSRI because of the risk of serotonin syndrome.
A lot of people recommend the combination of 5HTP and St John's Wort (which is apparently has some SSRI action)
Check out a search on 5HTP and the one of the first things to come up should be a site with Dr. Michael Murray. He talks about how SJW can be added together with 5HTP safely to relieve more moderate to severe depression. Good luck and let us know if it works for you at all if you decide to start taking it!
Posted by Francesco on October 26, 2003, at 17:41:00
In reply to ADD alternative strategies, posted by DSCH on October 23, 2003, at 21:23:02
Thanks for the tips. It seems I should try L-tyrosine. You're a big supporter of it and your problems seem to be so similar to mine. I will try vitamins B6 and C too. about the last one do you suggest the "effervescent" form ?
do you think that a multivitaminic-multimineral complex would be useful too ? (I'm asking about it because I bought it ;-)
Posted by DSCH on October 26, 2003, at 18:49:43
In reply to Re: ADD alternative strategies » DSCH, posted by Francesco on October 26, 2003, at 17:41:00
> Thanks for the tips. It seems I should try L-tyrosine. You're a big supporter of it and your problems seem to be so similar to mine. I will try vitamins B6 and C too. about the last one do you suggest the "effervescent" form ?
I don't know enough to recommend one form or the other... ideally your multivitamin should have a fair amount of B6 and C on its own.
> do you think that a multivitaminic-multimineral complex would be useful too ? (I'm asking about it because I bought it ;-)
Yeah, I didn't make that clear. A good multi formula is perhaps the most convienent foundation to build from, though you need to make sure vitamins included in other preparations don't take you into overdose territory.
Posted by McPac on October 26, 2003, at 21:21:02
In reply to Re: Piracetam is now available, posted by john1022 on October 26, 2003, at 8:55:10
John,
have you ever taken tryptophan for awhile to see how it would do?
Thanks!
Posted by DSCH on October 27, 2003, at 0:37:54
In reply to Re: ADD alternative strategies » DSCH, posted by Francesco on October 26, 2003, at 17:41:00
Francesco,
This is the plan I used today and I think it worked out pretty well. I think potassium and lecithin/choline/PC/PS may be the additions on the horizon. But this is working good for me it seems.
All "sets" taken together about half-hour before a major meal.
Morning:
Solaray Iron Free Twice Daily Multi Energy, 1 capsule
1000 mg L-tyrosine
100 mg 5-HTP
75 mg grape seed extract OPCs
500 mg calcium carbonate + 1.5 mg boron gluconate
250 mg magnesium oxide
approx. 375 mg TMGAfternoon: as morning, minus the calcium and magnesium.
Evening: as morning, minus the TMG (too activating for me this late I believe!).
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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