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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Franz on October 28, 2003, at 17:39:48
Hello,
I would like to know if anyone have tried guarana (a herbal product that has a variety of xanthine) especially to counteract the side effects of benzodiazepines.
I am trying a tincture and I am not sure if it is strong enough.
As I compare it to coffee, which I can feel the effects very clearly, it does not seem to provoke a noticeable effect immediately, but maybe guarana works for more time.
Thanks
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on October 29, 2003, at 6:42:47
In reply to Guarana compared to coffee?, posted by Franz on October 28, 2003, at 17:39:48
Hmm... exactly which side effects of the benzos are you trying to eliminate? I may be able to suggest a more benign and effective herbal/natural solution.
Michael
Posted by Franz on October 29, 2003, at 9:52:16
In reply to Re: Guarana compared to coffee? » Franz, posted by Ame Sans Vie on October 29, 2003, at 6:42:47
> Hmm... exactly which side effects of the benzos are you trying to eliminate? I may be able to suggest a more benign and effective herbal/natural solution.
>
> Michaelsedation from a very low dose klonopin (0.1mg night/day)
re memory I am not sure if it is age or what but I find U need more time to retrieve names
yes please suggest anything
thanks
Posted by Franz on November 4, 2003, at 7:34:02
In reply to Re: Guarana compared to coffee? » Franz, posted by Ame Sans Vie on October 29, 2003, at 6:42:47
just keeping this thread at front so Ame Sans Vie remembers to reply thanks
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on November 5, 2003, at 12:49:26
In reply to don´t forget! » Ame Sans Vie, posted by Franz on November 4, 2003, at 7:34:02
Sorry for the delay! I've been really busy this past week or so and haven't really had the chance to get on the computer.
You say you're taking a very low dose of Klonopin, but 0.1mg is a very, *very* low dose. Are you sure you don't mean 1mg? It seems to me that 0.1mg of clonazepam would be very unlikely to cause sedation (for most folks -- I realize we're all different; 0.0625mg Xanax knocks my stepdad right out, but he's taking nearly a dozen other meds as well).
Anyway, I suppose that's not really the issue -- the issue would be what you can do to allay the sedation you're experiencing, whatever the dose is. There are plenty of options, fortunately. And I wouldn't personally use the guarana if I were you... due to the fact that guaranine, its major active phytochemical, is nearly identical to caffeine on a molecular level, the same health detriment could be expected with guarana as would be expected with caffeine. Of course it's fine to use the stuff occasionally (no more than 100mg guaranine at a time though) or even daily in small amounts (i.e. 15mg guaranine three times daily), just as it is with caffeine. But definitely don't overdo it.
I'd suggest a much more gentle approach. Try taking the amino acid dl-phenylalanine (DLPA) which can be found at any good vitamin/health food store. The l- form of the supplement will increase levels of many neurochemicals involved in alertness, such as dopamine, norepinephrine, epinephrine, alpha-phenethylamine, and thyroid hormone. The d- form primarily helps by inhibiting an enzyme that breaks down endorphins/enkephalins in the brain. With a greater concentration of "natural morphine", you may even be able to lower your dose of clonazepam. I'd suggest beginning this at 750mg three times daily on an empty stomach, increasing the dose to as much as 4.5 grams total daily if necessary. I prefer the Source Naturals brand of DLPA, by the way, which comes in 750mg caplets. It seems to absorb more efficiently than the others I've tried. Vitamins C and B6 are "helpers" to this amino acid, so they should also be supplemented (but taken with food). While it's always a good idea to take a complete multinutrient supplement, you should still supplement with additional C and B6 even if you're already taking a multivitamin.
I would also add on at least one other thing to help out, using the guarana tincture only on an as-needed basis. Provigil is a great drug to beat fatigue and sedation for many people, but is prescription and very expensive. Nonetheless, it would probably be my first choice. It appears to be a phenomenally safe drug and seems to boost mental capacity in addition to increasing alertness.
Oriental or American ginseng could also be of great help, and, like the DLPA, may allow you to decrease your dosage of clonazepam slightly -- ginsengs are adaptogenic and moderately stimulant in nature, with Oriental ginseng being more on the stimulating side. The adaptogenic effects are often quite helpful in reducing stress/anxiety. Products labeled "Siberian ginseng", while they are adaptogenic, have a very minimal stimulant effect. Actually, "Siberian ginseng" is a misnomer -- the plant isn't of the Panax genus, and so isn't a true ginseng. It's usually sold under the name "eleuthero root" now.
NADH is great for a lot of people, and many find that it's better taken only every other day or even less, as it can be overly stimulating and cause irritability. 5mg every other day is a good starting point, increasing to 5mg every day after two weeks if necessary. I've personally spoken with people taking up to 25mg of the stuff daily, but that would cost a fortune; it is definitely a bit on the expensive side, but much less so than Provigil.
It still surprises me that so many people, for whatever reason, refuse to remember their daily dose of the best natural energizer/antidepressant we have -- exercise. So that's the last suggestion I have for the time being -- stay active!
Michael
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