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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by TeeJay on November 28, 2003, at 16:41:42
Firstly, let me say hello and thank you for all your postings which have kept me occupied for some weeks now, you are all fantastic!
As with most people, i'm posting because I need your help.
I've been ill for around 15 years now. I went to stacks of doctors who did all sorts of tests and could find nothing wrong. Eventually I saw a homeopath who diagnosed CFS although he also mentioned a few other things over the years too such as an allergy to tobacco (I was a 60 a day smoker) and some candida problems.
I dont bother with doctors as they have given me little in the way of help over the years and the cash strapped UK government and over burdened health servide mean things only get worse, rather than better. I've not seen the homeopath for some years now, mainly because he is 300 miles from my home and therefore seeing him is both tiresome and costly.
Initially my symptoms were more physical in nature, ie fatigue etc and I had the motivation or willpower to just kick myself up the backside and get stuff done, but over the years this has faded and now I suffer a multitude of what I would call emotional and mood problems as well as the fatigue.
Some descriptions to help you out perhaps........
I feel like I have the flu almost all of the time with only the intensity varying. Its worse in the winter months and seems to peak in its ferocity around Christmas. The glands in my throat are almost always swollen and somewhat painful, acompanying that is a kind of tingling/crawling sensation in the area where ones cheek bones meet the nose. Also a kind of cold fullness in the ears with the foggyheadedness and depersonalistion seeming to ease as this fullness eases often with rapid swallowing.As briefly touched on above, I suffer what I describe as "the goldfish bowl" effect where it feels as though nothing is quite real, almost as though I'm viewing everything from inside a goldfish bowl (does that make sense?). With that comes a poor sense of balance, disturbed coordination, and a general sense that ones senses are not working to their full capacity. Sometimes I can just be sat in a chair and it seems as though I am falling or spinning.
A few minor visual problems too....straight line on my monitor dont always seem very straight, they often lean (minly to the right) or shimmer in my peripheral vision. I dont halucinate, but I oftn think I catch sight of something out of the corner of my eye but obviously when I look, there is nothing there.
Mood wise, Ron Jones summed up how I feel brilliantly in his blueberry leaf post when he spoke of the anxiety, obsessive (ruminating)thinking, depersonalisation, feelings of unreality etc.....I am often petrified that I am going mad and will lose control of my actions which I believe are typical anxiety symptoms.
I've given depression much thought and consideration but believe any depression is secondary to the anxiety and is caused by the frustration with all the other symptoms!! I say this because on the occasions where I do wake up and feel at least sort of refreshed, my enrgy levels are up, my motivation levels are up and my moods also are up. If I may drift a little, I'veoften wondered if its not partly a sleep problem as I am almost always worse when I wake up and am better late at night.....for example, I felt lousy all day yesterday but felt well enough and bright enough to paint my ceiling at 1am last night.
As you may have gathered, my symptoms are not static. I'm never well and even my best days most people wouldnt enjoy, but to me they are all that get me through the really awful and dark periods. The periods can vary from days to weeks and very rarely a bad spell can last just hours as can a good spell. I've tried very hard to try and work some kind of pattern to it but i'm at a loss to do so.
Right, things tried.......EVERYTHING!! LOL I dont do medicine, not even aspirin for headaches but have tried much in the way of herbs and more recently vitamins and nothing really seems to have done much good. When things have done good (ginkgo springs to mind here) it usually only works for around 6 months before its affect seems to wear off.
Currently taking.......
N acetyl cysteine 600mg on waking
zinc and B6 twice a day 15mg and 50mg
mega fish oil 3 a day 310epa 210dha
magnesium glycinate 400mg when i remember (one or two a day)I stopped smoking back in january and the NAC is to try and sort out my lungs etc.
It may be my imagination, but the fish oil seems to make me feel a bit "doped up" although I do seem to feel less anxious on the whole.Well, that will do I think as my first post (has anyone fallen asleep yet?? LOL).....if anyone has any remarks, comments or suggestions, I'd be more than grateful to hear them.
Best Wishes
TJ
Posted by tealady on November 28, 2003, at 19:33:59
In reply to My first post..............., posted by TeeJay on November 28, 2003, at 16:41:42
Welcome TJ,
I think perhaps you should consider trying tyrosine and selenium. Those symptoms could possibly be slightly lowish thyroid function or similar(antibody/lowish thyroid-adrenal).
It can't hurt to give say 500mg tyrosine on first waking and say 75mcg selenium a go. UK food is lowish selenium at present I think.
Oh, and add in a multiB or multi (with about say 50mg B5 as well).
If it is going to help, you will know within a couple of weeks. That's what I'd be trying first, but there are sure to be other suggestions.Jan
Posted by TeeJay on November 29, 2003, at 6:01:20
In reply to Re: My first post............... » TeeJay, posted by tealady on November 28, 2003, at 19:33:59
Thanks for your welcome Tealady,
As a heavy smoker I fairly regularly took 100mcg of selenium. Since reading this board, I upped that to 200mcg but no difference was seen. I ran out a couple of weeks ago and have not got around to buying some more yet.
I've tried also Tyrosine but only for one month so perhaps I need longer? I took 500mg twice daily.
Now then, the multi B supplement.....hmmmm, I read the thread about adverse reactions with interest here as I'd been convinced for some time that my B100 complex didnt agree with me. I seemed to get a positive reaction from it for just 3 or 4 days then "wham" a nasty worsening of my symptoms.
I'm off out now so will post up some more info later. I didnt want to put it all up in one go as my first post would rival "War and Peace" in length ;-)))
Regards
TJ
Posted by tealady on November 29, 2003, at 6:59:56
In reply to Re: My first post..............., posted by TeeJay on November 29, 2003, at 6:01:20
> Thanks for your welcome Tealady,
>
> As a heavy smoker I fairly regularly took 100mcg of selenium. Since reading this board, I upped that to 200mcg but no difference was seen. I ran out a couple of weeks ago and have not got around to buying some more yet.
>
> I've tried also Tyrosine but only for one month so perhaps I need longer? I took 500mg twice daily.You should have noticed a difference by then..provided you were taking the selenium and multi at the same time.
I guess you have tried zinc?
>
> Now then, the multi B supplement.....hmmmm, I read the thread about adverse reactions with interest here as I'd been convinced for some time that my B100 complex didnt agree with me. I seemed to get a positive reaction from it for just 3 or 4 days then "wham" a nasty worsening of my symptoms.
>You could try taking 1/4 tablet a day and see how you go. Sometimes too it is the tablet itself and a different brand may be OK..but personally I think a 25 or 50 is enough for most
> I'm off out now so will post up some more info later. I didnt want to put it all up in one go as my first post would rival "War and Peace" in length ;-)))
>
Jan
Posted by JLx on November 29, 2003, at 7:24:37
In reply to My first post..............., posted by TeeJay on November 28, 2003, at 16:41:42
Hi TJ, welcome to the board. I hope that eventually we can help you sort things out.
Have you taken Dr. Amen's Brain Checklist? It might be helpful. (Don't be dissuaded by the ADD label, as it's just a good way of correlating symptoms with suggestions for possible solutions, imo.) http://www.brainplace.com/bp/checklist/
> I feel like I have the flu almost all of the time with only the intensity varying. Its worse in the winter months and seems to peak in its ferocity around Christmas. The glands in my throat are almost always swollen and somewhat painful, acompanying that is a kind of tingling/crawling sensation in the area where ones cheek bones meet the nose. Also a kind of cold fullness in the ears with the foggyheadedness and depersonalistion seeming to ease as this fullness eases often with rapid swallowing.
This suggests allergies to me in general, either food and/or possibly exacerbated by other allergies such as to mold/dust from being indoors more in the winter months. Vitamin D and/or light also occurs to me as possible factors. And how about exercise, which is generally harder to do in the dreary months.
If you're up for dietary changes, eliminating dairy products and grains might be a good place to start as they are common allergy/addictions for many people. My sinus-head symptoms were helped greatly by this. I've heard of other people too who lost that full feeling in the head after eliminating dairy.
If you habitually eat a fair amount of sugar, eliminating it altogether will help a lot. Not at first though, as first there will be withdrawal. (For motivation to try this, "Sugar Blues" is an old book, but I guarantee, you'll never feel the same way about sugar again after reading it. ;))
In general, a high protein, low carb diet is energizing for many people.
> If I may drift a little, I'veoften wondered if its not partly a sleep problem as I am almost always worse when I wake up and am better late at night.....for example, I felt lousy all day yesterday but felt well enough and bright enough to paint my ceiling at 1am last night.This particular symptom may be related to hypoglycemia problems. In fact, this page sounds a lot like your description of your symptoms:
Conquering Anxiety, Depression and Fatigue Without Drugs - the Role of Hypoglycemia
by Professor Joel H. Levitt
http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/articles/hypoglycemia.htm
> As you may have gathered, my symptoms are not static. I'm never well and even my best days most people wouldnt enjoy, but to me they are all that get me through the really awful and dark periods. The periods can vary from days to weeks and very rarely a bad spell can last just hours as can a good spell. I've tried very hard to try and work some kind of pattern to it but i'm at a loss to do so.I used to feel that way too, and now feel a lot better. For me, it took big dietary changes and a lot tweaking of supplements....over time.
> When things have done good (ginkgo springs to mind here) it usually only works for around 6 months before its affect seems to wear off.
This is a discouraging and perplexing problem, I've experienced it too and you see it a lot on this board. Have you tried periodic supplementation of these things, or do they not work the next time after a break?
> Currently taking.......
>
> N acetyl cysteine 600mg on waking
> zinc and B6 twice a day 15mg and 50mg
> mega fish oil 3 a day 310epa 210dha
> magnesium glycinate 400mg when i remember (one or two a day)Is that 400 mg in one tablet? I haven't seen any like that, most I've seen are 400 mg in two tablets so taking one will only give you an additional 200 mg a day. I would definitely try to remember and shoot for at least 600 a day or even more at first, to the point of diarrheal intolerance and then back off. It may take a few weeks or even a couple months to get up to speed on what magnesium can do optimally for your bod. Mg glycinate is a good type ordinarily but I've read that mg malate is particularly recommended for CFS. I take malate and like it a lot.
Do you get much calcium in your diet? I was overloaded for many years while also being mg deficient, which was a big factor in how I felt like crap all the time.
> I stopped smoking back in january and the NAC is to try and sort out my lungs etc.
>
>I would suggest Vit C for that purpose too, possibly also to the point of diarrhea and then back off a bit. Given the possible allergies also, a formulation that includes bioflavanoids might be particularly helpful.
> It may be my imagination, but the fish oil seems to make me feel a bit "doped up" although I do seem to feel less anxious on the whole.
>
> Well, that will do I think as my first post (has anyone fallen asleep yet?? LOL).....if anyone has any remarks, comments or suggestions, I'd be more than grateful to hear them.We were with you all the way. :) Besides Jan's (tealady) suggestions and the above, for the candida (unless it's no longer a problem) I'd suggest probiotics, and possibly also digestive enzymes and definitely chromium for hypoglycemia-symptoms. In general, unless you eat a very healthy, balanced diet, a multi-vitamin/mineral is probably a good idea as well.
Here's another good article. This guy writes for a commercial site, but I like his stuff usually.
Tired of being tired? by James South MA http://smart-drugs.net/ias-tiredness.htm
JL
Posted by TeeJay on November 29, 2003, at 15:03:22
In reply to Re: My first post............... » TeeJay, posted by tealady on November 29, 2003, at 6:59:56
> You could try taking 1/4 tablet a day and see how you go. Sometimes too it is the tablet itself and a different brand may be OK..but personally I think a 25 or 50 is enough for mostThe 100 was on offer so on the usual "more is better" assumption, bought it. I'll make a mental note to consider a B50 as an alternative when I come to my next change in regimen.
I have tried zinc, and take zinc now (i've taken it on and off for a few years now).Curiously i've felt better today and have not taken any fish oil today.....I think I will leave it offfor a day or two and see what happens.
Experiments, experiments and more experiments! LOL
Thanks tealady
TJ
Posted by TeeJay on November 29, 2003, at 15:36:40
In reply to Re: My first post............... » TeeJay, posted by JLx on November 29, 2003, at 7:24:37
> Hi TJ, welcome to the board. I hope that eventually we can help you sort things out.
I am more than confident you will :-))))
> Have you taken Dr. Amen's Brain Checklist? It might be helpful. (Don't be dissuaded by the ADD label, as it's just a good way of correlating symptoms with suggestions for possible solutions, imo.) http://www.brainplace.com/bp/checklist/ADD Combined Type Not Probable
ADD Inattentive Type Highly Probable
Cingulate System Hyperactivity Probable
Limbic System Hyperactivity Highly Probable
Basal Ganglia Hyperactivity Highly Probable
Temporal Lobe System May be possibleSeems too many probabilities there IMO....perhaps that helps your thesis that my problems are not so much mental in origin as mental in symptology, ie my whole mental functioning is just out of sync? Just thinking outloud here.
>
> > I feel like I have the flu almost all of the time with only the intensity varying. Its worse in the winter months and seems to peak in its ferocity around Christmas. The glands in my throat are almost always swollen and somewhat painful, acompanying that is a kind of tingling/crawling sensation in the area where ones cheek bones meet the nose. Also a kind of cold fullness in the ears with the foggyheadedness and depersonalistion seeming to ease as this fullness eases often with rapid swallowing.
>
> This suggests allergies to me in general, either food and/or possibly exacerbated by other allergies such as to mold/dust from being indoors more in the winter months. Vitamin D and/or light also occurs to me as possible factors. And how about exercise, which is generally harder to do in the dreary months.I've actually considered a mould allergy as my last two homes have had a slight damp problem and its been very close to where i've slept on both occasions.
>
> If you're up for dietary changes, eliminating dairy products and grains might be a good place to start as they are common allergy/addictions for many people. My sinus-head symptoms were helped greatly by this. I've heard of other people too who lost that full feeling in the head after eliminating dairy.Thats gonna be a tough thing to do as most of my favourite foods are dairy!! I had been considering the 4 day fast mentioned on some sites to see if it relieves my symptoms, but that doesnt seem like a pleasant idea, specially as I have now acquired a rampant appetite after not having one for 20 years due to smoking. I'll stick that on the "maybe" list ;-)
>
> If you habitually eat a fair amount of sugar, eliminating it altogether will help a lot. Not at first though, as first there will be withdrawal. (For motivation to try this, "Sugar Blues" is an old book, but I guarantee, you'll never feel the same way about sugar again after reading it. ;))
>
> In general, a high protein, low carb diet is energizing for many people.
>
> > If I may drift a little, I'veoften wondered if its not partly a sleep problem as I am almost always worse when I wake up and am better late at night.....for example, I felt lousy all day yesterday but felt well enough and bright enough to paint my ceiling at 1am last night.
>
> This particular symptom may be related to hypoglycemia problems. In fact, this page sounds a lot like your description of your symptoms:
>
> Conquering Anxiety, Depression and Fatigue Without Drugs - the Role of Hypoglycemia
> by Professor Joel H. Levitt
> http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/articles/hypoglycemia.htmWow, that does sound rather like me doesnt it!! I'd often considered hypoglycemia but imagined the symptoms to change much more quickly than mine do, but this article suggests this may well not be the case. VERY interesting.
I rather liked this symptom "Tremor or trembling of arm, leg, or whole body (outside or inside) " I have what I would describe as a very fine all over tremor, that is worst in my arms....feels kinda like they are under tension all the time. As far back as I can remember though, i've always had shaky hands, even back at school.
>
> > As you may have gathered, my symptoms are not static. I'm never well and even my best days most people wouldnt enjoy, but to me they are all that get me through the really awful and dark periods. The periods can vary from days to weeks and very rarely a bad spell can last just hours as can a good spell. I've tried very hard to try and work some kind of pattern to it but i'm at a loss to do so.
>
> I used to feel that way too, and now feel a lot better. For me, it took big dietary changes and a lot tweaking of supplements....over time.I dont like eating breakfast to be honest, but I suffer later on if I dont. I seem to function better if I eat breakfast.
>
> > When things have done good (ginkgo springs to mind here) it usually only works for around 6 months before its affect seems to wear off.
>
> This is a discouraging and perplexing problem, I've experienced it too and you see it a lot on this board. Have you tried periodic supplementation of these things, or do they not work the next time after a break?Gingo has worked a couple of times after a break of some considerable months but this time it seems to be doing nothing at all, although its in amongst a raft of new things so that statement is far from scientific in the way it was reached.
>
> > Currently taking.......
> >
> > N acetyl cysteine 600mg on waking
> > zinc and B6 twice a day 15mg and 50mg
> > mega fish oil 3 a day 310epa 210dha
> > magnesium glycinate 400mg when i remember (one or two a day)
>
> Is that 400 mg in one tablet? I haven't seen any like that, most I've seen are 400 mg in two tablets so taking one will only give you an additional 200 mg a day. I would definitely try to remember and shoot for at least 600 a day or even more at first, to the point of diarrheal intolerance and then back off. It may take a few weeks or even a couple months to get up to speed on what magnesium can do optimally for your bod. Mg glycinate is a good type ordinarily but I've read that mg malate is particularly recommended for CFS. I take malate and like it a lot.Yes its from Solgar and in the UK its packaged as MAgnesium Chelate but I queried the company as to which amino it was chelated too and they confirmed it was glycine.....the US packaging is identical but states it is Mag Gly which is why I questioned it. 12 months ago my regimen consisted of taking these 400mg Mag Gly tablets like they were candy along with equal quantities of Niacinimide with little if any change.
Oh, I can take 6 of those 400mg tabs a day without any effect to my bowels, even taken 6 in a day with 2 gramms vit c and still no change.
>
> Do you get much calcium in your diet? I was overloaded for many years while also being mg deficient, which was a big factor in how I felt like crap all the time.Dont know, but also have some Calcium tabs (500mg) which i've taken when stressed as they are supposed to be calming.........yep, you've guessed it, another one which doesnt affect me. Also tried it for a month with methionine as per Pfeiffer with no effect either.
>
> > I stopped smoking back in january and the NAC is to try and sort out my lungs etc.
> >
> >
>
> I would suggest Vit C for that purpose too, possibly also to the point of diarrhea and then back off a bit. Given the possible allergies also, a formulation that includes bioflavanoids might be particularly helpful.Bowel tolerance?? See above, they'd have to sell tablets the size of baseballs to make me cr*p ;-)
>
> > It may be my imagination, but the fish oil seems to make me feel a bit "doped up" although I do seem to feel less anxious on the whole.
> >
> > Well, that will do I think as my first post (has anyone fallen asleep yet?? LOL).....if anyone has any remarks, comments or suggestions, I'd be more than grateful to hear them.
>
> We were with you all the way. :) Besides Jan's (tealady) suggestions and the above, for the candida (unless it's no longer a problem) I'd suggest probiotics, and possibly also digestive enzymes and definitely chromium for hypoglycemia-symptoms. In general, unless you eat a very healthy, balanced diet, a multi-vitamin/mineral is probably a good idea as well.
>
> Here's another good article. This guy writes for a commercial site, but I like his stuff usually.
>
> Tired of being tired? by James South MA http://smart-drugs.net/ias-tiredness.htm
>
> JL
Plenty to think about there JL, thanks for taking the time to reply in such a lengthy manner.......between you and tealady, i'm beginning to feel better already :-)TJ
Posted by JLx on November 29, 2003, at 18:52:43
In reply to Re: My first post.........JLX......, posted by TeeJay on November 29, 2003, at 15:36:40
> > Have you taken Dr. Amen's Brain Checklist? It might be helpful. (Don't be dissuaded by the ADD label, as it's just a good way of correlating symptoms with suggestions for possible solutions, imo.) http://www.brainplace.com/bp/checklist/
>
> ADD Combined Type Not Probable
> ADD Inattentive Type Highly Probable
> Cingulate System Hyperactivity Probable
> Limbic System Hyperactivity Highly Probable
> Basal Ganglia Hyperactivity Highly Probable
> Temporal Lobe System May be possible
>
> Seems too many probabilities there IMO....perhaps that helps your thesis that my problems are not so much mental in origin as mental in symptology, ie my whole mental functioning is just out of sync? Just thinking outloud here.I was just going by you presenting your physical symptoms as being primary.
I had ADD Inattentive Type, Cingulate System Hyperactivity, Limbic System Hyperactivity, and Basal Ganglia Hyperactivity all come up on that test as highly probable. This further convinced me -- in addition to experience -- that I need a broad approach of synergistic solutions. Maybe you do too.
> Thats gonna be a tough thing to do as most of my favourite foods are dairy!! I had been considering the 4 day fast mentioned on some sites to see if it relieves my symptoms, but that doesnt seem like a pleasant idea, specially as I have now acquired a rampant appetite after not having one for 20 years due to smoking. I'll stick that on the "maybe" list ;-)I hear ya. Sometimes I can't believe I'm living without cheese and all the rest of the stuff I love to eat. It helps a lot though. That's the worst of it. ;)
> Wow, that does sound rather like me doesnt it!! I'd often considered hypoglycemia but imagined the symptoms to change much more quickly than mine do, but this article suggests this may well not be the case. VERY interesting.There's lots of good stuff on that Alternative Mental Health site.
> Yes its from Solgar and in the UK its packaged as MAgnesium Chelate but I queried the company as to which amino it was chelated too and they confirmed it was glycine.....the US packaging is identical but states it is Mag Gly which is why I questioned it. 12 months ago my regimen consisted of taking these 400mg Mag Gly tablets like they were candy along with equal quantities of Niacinimide with little if any change.
>
> Oh, I can take 6 of those 400mg tabs a day without any effect to my bowels, even taken 6 in a day with 2 gramms vit c and still no change.Hmm....that seems quite remarkable. This might be a question for Larry Hoover...why this amount of magnesium DOESN'T cause diarrhea. About Vit. C, I recall reading somewhere that the amount you can tolerate indicates the body's need/lack of need for it, but I don't know how accurate that might be.
> Dont know, but also have some Calcium tabs (500mg) which i've taken when stressed as they are supposed to be calming.........yep, you've guessed it, another one which doesnt affect me. Also tried it for a month with methionine as per Pfeiffer with no effect either.
I don't recall where now, but I was reading something recently that said that calcium can be tricky in that an excess can paradoxically cause a deficiency. Perhaps magnesium is the same way and in effect, these minerals are not affecting your body at all then as you take them.
> Bowel tolerance?? See above, they'd have to sell tablets the size of baseballs to make me cr*p ;-)
Sounds like you are severely "out of whack"! ;)
> Plenty to think about there JL, thanks for taking the time to reply in such a lengthy manner.......between you and tealady, i'm beginning to feel better already :-)
It helps me a lot to just know there are things I haven't tried yet. :)
JL
This is the end of the thread.
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