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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Maxime on December 12, 2003, at 14:52:06
Hello.
I suffer from hypothyroidism. I currently take synthroid. I'm looking for an alternative medication to take, does anyone have any suggestions or experience?
Thanks in advance.
Maxime
Posted by tealady on December 12, 2003, at 21:02:30
In reply to Thyroid alternatives?, posted by Maxime on December 12, 2003, at 14:52:06
> Hello.
>
> I suffer from hypothyroidism. I currently take synthroid. I'm looking for an alternative medication to take, does anyone have any suggestions or experience?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> MaximeThat's a huge topic. Depending on why you are on synthroid, determines on whether you will need to stay on it..but there is much you can do to help get better function of the thyroid hrormones.
If you haven't started as yet..try adding in some fish oil after your fattiest meal of the day..with perhap some VitE. Start off wth one capsule of fish oil a day and build up.,,..fish oil helps the thyroid hormone receptors work better probably. If nothing else it is a healthy change to make. There is much written on tis forum on fish oil ..just read thru the old posts
Also depending on where your food is sourced from (the soil), selenium is a good place to start. Start with 100mcg per day. Most of the US (females) need between 50mcg and 100mcg per day added selenium for better thyroid function...helps with conversion of T4 to T3 and with antibodies.But continue taking your synthroid with these measuresAlso test your your ferritin leve..if under 50..supplement with some iron..optimally between 50 and 100 is best for serum ferritin. (suugest aim for 70?)
Ferritin works with thyroid hormone(T3) in our bodies and if too low you feel lethargic and depressed.
There are other things, but it would be best probably to start with these things.Also do you consume a lot of soy or tofu etc?
And make sure iron supps and calcium supps are taken about 4 hrs away from your synthroid...or the synthroid(T4) may not be absorbed optimally.
there's a forum on some alternatives
http://forums.about.com/ab-altmedoption/startHope this helps,
Jan
Posted by Maxime on December 13, 2003, at 16:56:14
In reply to Re: Thyroid alternatives?, posted by tealady on December 12, 2003, at 21:02:30
Hi Tea Lady. Thank for you for the information. i actually already take a lot of fish oil and I use selenium supplements. I do eat a lot of tofu and soy products as I am vegan.
I plan on actually staying on the synthroid. I was looking for alternative boost. The reason is, my thyroid levels are within the normal range with the synthroid I am taking. But the normal range is so broad. I am still experience low thyroid function symptoms such as being cold all the time, hair problems and sore joints. My doctor will not increase my synthroid because she says that I am within in the normal range. Grrr. I don't care what the tests say, I know my body. Sometimes I really hate doctors.
My thyroid is messed up because I have suffered from an eating disorder (anorexia) for years. My thyroid overworked itself and it pooped itself out.
I will check out the link you provided and see what else I can find.
Thanks again.
Maxime
> > Hello.
> >
> > I suffer from hypothyroidism. I currently take synthroid. I'm looking for an alternative medication to take, does anyone have any suggestions or experience?
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> > Maxime
>
> That's a huge topic. Depending on why you are on synthroid, determines on whether you will need to stay on it..but there is much you can do to help get better function of the thyroid hrormones.
>
> If you haven't started as yet..try adding in some fish oil after your fattiest meal of the day..with perhap some VitE. Start off wth one capsule of fish oil a day and build up.,,..fish oil helps the thyroid hormone receptors work better probably. If nothing else it is a healthy change to make. There is much written on tis forum on fish oil ..just read thru the old posts
>
>
> Also depending on where your food is sourced from (the soil), selenium is a good place to start. Start with 100mcg per day. Most of the US (females) need between 50mcg and 100mcg per day added selenium for better thyroid function...helps with conversion of T4 to T3 and with antibodies.
>
> But continue taking your synthroid with these measuresAlso test your your ferritin leve..if under 50..supplement with some iron..optimally between 50 and 100 is best for serum ferritin. (suugest aim for 70?)
> Ferritin works with thyroid hormone(T3) in our bodies and if too low you feel lethargic and depressed.
> There are other things, but it would be best probably to start with these things.
>
> Also do you consume a lot of soy or tofu etc?
>
> And make sure iron supps and calcium supps are taken about 4 hrs away from your synthroid...or the synthroid(T4) may not be absorbed optimally.
>
> there's a forum on some alternatives
> http://forums.about.com/ab-altmedoption/start
>
> Hope this helps,
> Jan
>
>
Posted by tealady on December 14, 2003, at 4:40:15
In reply to Re: Thyroid alternatives?, posted by Maxime on December 13, 2003, at 16:56:14
> Hi Tea Lady. Thank for you for the information. i actually already take a lot of fish oil and I use selenium supplements. I do eat a lot of tofu and soy products as I am vegan.
Fish oil intake..great
Also with supplements..it's good to take the supplements hours after the thryoid hormone,(4 hrs in the case of calcium)..but some say it helps to take thyroid hormone along with essential oils..like flaxseed oil, EPO or I guess other oils. Thyroid hormone is fat soluble so it's absorbed better when taken along with an oil supplement.
Then it's better sometimes to take the thyroid meds on an empty stomach first thing in the morning..I get around all of this by time releasing my thyroid meds..and taking oils after my fattiest meal of the day..and applying a lot of oils on my skin..which absorb that way.
(not fish oil though <g>)Soy may (probably will) cause problems for hypothyroids..like you will continue to feel hypo even when on adequate meds...I posted on this a while ago, so have a look back. If you can't find it, let me know.
Guess you can't consider changing your thinking and eating eggs and milk products?
>
> I plan on actually staying on the synthroid. I was looking for alternative boost. The reason is, my thyroid levels are within the normal range with the synthroid I am taking. But the normal range is so broad. I am still experience low thyroid function symptoms such as being cold all the time, hair problems and sore joints. My doctor will not increase my synthroid because she says that I am within in the normal range. Grrr. I don't care what the tests say, I know my body. Sometimes I really hate doctors.Without knowing your Ft4 , Ft3 as well as TSH levels , It's hard to comment..but YES ..everyones hates the within normal range bit..which is currently around 0.3 o 3.0 in the US (although not all docs know this). The mode (which is the "average" in this case) is around 1.1 (from memory) and that is my daughter's level exactly
(The distribution is skewed due to the way larger no. of false hypothyroid people included in the results than false hyperthyroids.)
http://www.thyroid.org.au/Information/NormalTSH.htmlAlso get your TSH taken FIRST thing in morning..as early as possible as this is the high point in the day..so your TSH will show higher then..and he docs don't think of this..or don't know. In some people it can vary a lot (up to 2 points I've heard) during the day, but I don't think this variance is that "normal".
>
> My thyroid is messed up because I have suffered from an eating disorder (anorexia) for years. My thyroid overworked itself and it pooped itself out.Yep, I think I've heard it's common in the hyperthyroids for a lot of them to have suffered anorexia in the past..but I can't find the posts now, sigh.
Do you have any thyroid antibodies?
>
> I will check out the link you provided and see what else I can find.Well its's a start.
Your symptoms are all low ferritin BTW as well as hypothyoid..so it is worth getting tested..even if you have to pay yourself.
Have you had ferritin levels tested?
(not avoid iron supps..or any ferric something or iron in multis for about a week before your blood test)
Here's a link to a thread on low iron..
http://forums.about.com/ab-thyroid/messages?msg=39781.23
when reading on these forums ..go to botom RHS of page and click on "advanced" top see 20 posts in one go..there's a lot of p[osts in that thread
like
http://forums.about.com/ab-thyroid/messages?msg=39781.59(read 60 as well)
It's starting to get known
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/abstract/326/7399/1124
>
> Thanks again.
>
> Maxime
>
>Lots of other ideas..but try this stuff first.
personally I find nitrates(rites) cause me to go hypo..and used up any thyroid hormone I have in my body.Also do you take zinc?
Jan
Posted by Maxime on December 14, 2003, at 13:43:29
In reply to Re: Thyroid alternatives? » Maxime, posted by tealady on December 14, 2003, at 4:40:15
Wow, you really know a lot about this. :) I am very glad I posted now.
I do take zinc as well. I was having trouble with my hair falling out from stress and so that was how I initially started taking the selenium and zinc combo. I later read that it was good for the brain and since I am bipolar .... well I need all the help I can get. :)
I don't think I have ever had my ferritin tested. I know that often I have low iron stores. I am still anorexic but not nearly as starved as I used to be. I actually eat one meal a day now.
Thyroid antibodies? I have no idea at this point. I do remember that several years ago I went to see a doctor in another Province where I was living at the time. She did so many tests on my thyroid. She did say at the time that I didn't have any antibodies, but to be honest, I can't remember what that meant. I have to admit I need to learn much, much, much more about my thyroid.
I swing between vegan and vegetarian diet. Usually I go a few months vegan and then I need to have an intake of eggs etc. Once my B12 dropped so low that I had to have injections. So that is the only reason that I will break down every once in while and eat eggs and some dairy.
Grrr. You know, I asked my doctor if I should be taking the synthroid on an empty stomach and she said it didn't matter! The only reason I asked was because when I was living in the U.S. for a few months (I live in Canada) my synthroid prescription had a label on it that said to take on an empty stomach. It was a pain in the butt to take them on an empty stomach because all the other meds I take have to be taken with food. But I am going to try again. :)
I'm going for a blood test this week for my thyroid. I will be sure to have it as early as possible. :)
I'm going to check out the post you wrote that you made reference to.
Thanks again!!!
Maxime
Posted by noa on December 15, 2003, at 21:44:54
In reply to Thyroid alternatives?, posted by Maxime on December 12, 2003, at 14:52:06
There are other thyroid meds, including natural (as opposed to synthetic ones like synthroid)ones, if that is what you are looking for.
Please see the TONS of resource info at
http://thyroid.about.com/cs/basics_starthere/index.htm?PM=ss12_thyroid
and specifically the info on drugs
http://thyroid.about.com/library/drugs/bl-drugs.htm
Posted by tealady on December 15, 2003, at 23:10:46
In reply to Re: Thyroid alternatives? - Tea Lady, posted by Maxime on December 14, 2003, at 13:43:29
> Wow, you really know a lot about this. :) I am very glad I posted now.
>thanks, I HAD to learn...
> I do take zinc as well. I was having trouble with my hair falling out from stress and so that was how I initially started taking the selenium and zinc combo. I later read that it was good for the brain and since I am bipolar .... well I need all the help I can get. :)
yes it's good for you...you need at least 8mg of elemental zinc per day..and may need up to 25 mg or 30mg per day of elemental zinc..so check what you take. I take 10mg per day personally and then "topup" occasionally as needed. make sure it is ELEMENTAL zinc equivalent.
The hair falling out when stressd is often low iron BTW
>
> I don't think I have ever had my ferritin tested. I know that often I have low iron stores. I am still anorexic but not nearly as starved as I used to be. I actually eat one meal a day now.
>
ferritin is one part of the iron studies blood test..but you can just get it run separately. Most docs don't know about it..including endos ..and don't run it..so make sure you ask (demand) it. It is not an expensive test, so your doc should be happy to run it for you. Ferritin shows iron stores. It's the one that is important in how you function.. and it will drop before you are anemic usually.
If under 50, you need supplemental iron. It will stop your hair falling out probably and make a huge difference to how your body utilizes thyroid hormones..and how you feel.
I had some iron injectins (not recommended as they stain your skin..like a tatoo)and I remember after my first one I felt so happy and full of energy I started singing on the peak hour train! <g>. Low iron causes depression and fatigue and apathy.
> Thyroid antibodies? I have no idea at this point. I do remember that several years ago I went to see a doctor in another Province where I was living at the time. She did so many tests on my thyroid. She did say at the time that I didn't have any antibodies, but to be honest, I can't remember what that meant. I have to admit I need to learn much, much, much more about my thyroid.Try and get a photocopy or a fax of ALL your test results ..you might be able to get a copy of those old results too..and keep them all in your own personal folder. This is handy for monitoring how you are going as well its easier when you go to a new doc a they aren't lost! By law you are entitled to them I think.
Well demand a test for anti TPO at least..I suspect you might have those..if not, you're probbably OK.
People with antiTPO often start out hyper and then go hypo..as antibodies attack thyroid intially it swells and you go hyper,...as more is destroyed , you g hyp.Then of course, most switch form hyper to hypo to hyper to ..very similar to bipolar, (only they have other symptoms like cold hands and feet, fatigue, aches and pains, carpal tunnel etc)..
...at least until the thyroid has shrunk then are always hypo..of course the amount hypo varies from a little to a lot
That's why I think you need to test your antibodies..some docs will say..makes no diff, the treatment is the same..but they ARE cerain things you can do to help with antibody supression, and you're far more likely to go to the trouble of doing them if you know this to be the cause of your hypo....selenium is one of the things!The main one is usually anti TPO...but some will run anti microsomal, and there is also anti TG and TSI (or TBII someplaces)..but anti TG is not that important usually as if you have this you usually have TPO antibodies as well and TSI is more relevant to hyperthyroid.
Still take whatever you are offered.<g>
The microsomal antibodies is run interchangeably with anti TPO..but usually gives a higher result..it does with me. No sure if this means it's a broader test or not. Guess I should find out the exact diff.But at least ask for antiTPO, OK?
>
> I swing between vegan and vegetarian diet. Usually I go a few months vegan and then I need to have an intake of eggs etc. Once my B12 dropped so low that I had to have injections. So that is the only reason that I will break down every once in while and eat eggs and some dairy.
suprise..B12 was the next thing I was going to mention..it's fairly common for hypothryoids to be lowish..and it seems to also work in with thyroid hormones and iron perhaps.
>
> Grrr. You know, I asked my doctor if I should be taking the synthroid on an empty stomach and she said it didn't matter! The only reason I asked was because when I was living in the U.S. for a few months (I live in Canada) my synthroid prescription had a label on it that said to take on an empty stomach. It was a pain in the butt to take them on an empty stomach because all the other meds I take have to be taken with food. But I am going to try again. :)well most people do..but I guess it's not really an absolute. The thing is if you do take it on an empty stomach, you get the same amount every day..but if you take it with brekkie say..then it depends what you eat for brekky , how much you absorb.
If you always had salmon for brekkie, then you just adjust the amount of thryoid hormone you take up just a little to compensate and you get the same amount every day.
The problem happens when you have say yoghurt and a glass of milk for brekkie..then you would need to really increase the amount you take..and if you had different brekkies on different days , then the amount of thyroid hormone you get absorbed varies...which is just fine IF you know what you arew doing.
Like if I have a "more hyper" time..I just might drink some milk with my thyroid meds or I could just take less...etc
Just most people don't realise this until they've played with the meds for a while
>
> I'm going for a blood test this week for my thyroid. I will be sure to have it as early as possible. :)
OK ask for TSH, FT4, FT3, anti TPO, ferritin, B12I was going to suggest this before you mentioned the b12..and don't take any more B12 until the test..or iron for a week before (even in your multi for iron).
>
> I'm going to check out the post you wrote that you made reference to.http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20030903/msgs/259853.html
and then if you go to the bottom of the post..read all the links in the soy thread..OK...and these have links to good posts on a thyroid forum..read those too<g>
>
> Thanks again!!!
>
> MaximeLots of other things..but this is a good start!
JanPS. I'm on that natural thyroid med (called THYROID in Canada) that Noa mentioned as well as T4...but I wouldn't worry about that just yet, until you look at these other things
Posted by noa on December 16, 2003, at 18:05:59
In reply to Re: Thyroid alternatives? - Tea Lady » Maxime, posted by tealady on December 15, 2003, at 23:10:46
I think that if you take thyroid with food, the thyroid hormone will not be absorbed well. It sometimes is a pain in the butt, it's true, but I've mostly gotten the routine down. When I wake up, first thing I do before anything else is take my Adderall and my thyroid meds. THen I get washed and dressed, and then when I eat, I take my other meds which require food. Then, in the late afternoon when I take the other half of my cytomel, I try to remember to take it late afternoon, well after lunch but at least an hour before dinner. The truth is that my endo told me that while an hour before food is best, it isn't terrible if sometimes there is only a 1/2 hour in between.
Sometimes the routine doesn't work, but mostly it's ok.
Oh, and one more thing---thyroid meds are rendered less effective if taken anywhere in the vicinity of any soy products. My endo recommended a buffer zone of 4 hours before and after. For me, this was a far more complicated issue than the issue of taking it without food, because I'm a vegetarian and eat a fair amount of soy products. Now, I try to eat my soy products for lunch, which is at least 4 hours away from thyroid dosings at either end.
Posted by Maxime on December 27, 2003, at 21:06:17
In reply to Re: Thyroid dosing, posted by noa on December 16, 2003, at 18:05:59
Sorry for my delay in response on this one. Thanks for the information re. Soy. I'm vegan and soy is something I do consume every day.
Did you see an endo just for your thyroid problems or do you have other ones as well. I ask because I often wonder if my doctor knows what the heck she is doing when it comes to my thyroid. Wondering if I should be seeing an endo or not.
Maxime
> I think that if you take thyroid with food, the thyroid hormone will not be absorbed well. It sometimes is a pain in the butt, it's true, but I've mostly gotten the routine down. When I wake up, first thing I do before anything else is take my Adderall and my thyroid meds. THen I get washed and dressed, and then when I eat, I take my other meds which require food. Then, in the late afternoon when I take the other half of my cytomel, I try to remember to take it late afternoon, well after lunch but at least an hour before dinner. The truth is that my endo told me that while an hour before food is best, it isn't terrible if sometimes there is only a 1/2 hour in between.
>
> Sometimes the routine doesn't work, but mostly it's ok.
>
> Oh, and one more thing---thyroid meds are rendered less effective if taken anywhere in the vicinity of any soy products. My endo recommended a buffer zone of 4 hours before and after. For me, this was a far more complicated issue than the issue of taking it without food, because I'm a vegetarian and eat a fair amount of soy products. Now, I try to eat my soy products for lunch, which is at least 4 hours away from thyroid dosings at either end.
Posted by noa on December 27, 2003, at 22:44:31
In reply to Re: Thyroid dosing}} NOA, posted by Maxime on December 27, 2003, at 21:06:17
I haven't been to the endo in a long time--right now, my regular doc does the follow up tests and prescriptions. But I'm going to make an appointment just for a check up with the endo since it's been a long time.
I went to the endo because of the thyroid. While I was there, he noticed other stuff and had me tested--insulin resistance and a bunch of genetic endocrinological disorders. Only the insulin resistance turned up positive, so he prescribed glucophage XR, which I've been taking for over 3 years now.
It stinks about the soy thing, I know. I'm a vegetarian and have relied a lot on soy products. Now I just have to time the soy products so they don't come within 4 hours of the thyroid meds. That means no soy for dinner or breakfast, really. I don't care about the breakfast, but dinner--that cuts out a lot of the usuals. Although sometimes, I take my second dose of cytomel on the early side and then have a late dinner, so it works out.
Posted by SLS on December 28, 2003, at 8:09:08
In reply to Re: Thyroid dosing}} NOA, posted by noa on December 27, 2003, at 22:44:31
Hi Noa.
> It stinks about the soy thing, I know. I'm a vegetarian and have relied a lot on soy products. Now I just have to time the soy products so they don't come within 4 hours of the thyroid meds.
How does soy work against the thyroid or thyroid medications? I'm curious about the 4 hour thing.
- Scott
Posted by tealady on December 28, 2003, at 12:32:20
In reply to Re: Thyroid dosing}} NOA » noa, posted by SLS on December 28, 2003, at 8:09:08
> Hi Noa.
>
> > It stinks about the soy thing, I know. I'm a vegetarian and have relied a lot on soy products. Now I just have to time the soy products so they don't come within 4 hours of the thyroid meds.>
> How does soy work against the thyroid or thyroid medications? I'm curious about the 4 hour thing.
>
>
> - Scott
>http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20030903/msgs/259853.html
read entire threadI haven't heard of 4 hr apart for soy though, interesting ...most just avoid altogether. Would soy products be metabolised enough in 4 hrs to not interfere? I guess it would at least help.
I have heard of 4 hr avoidance for calcium supps (study done on calcium carbonate I think..there is a post here on it somewhere) and similar or at least separate for iron though.
The best way to find out if soy may be a problem is the old elimination of soy for 3 to 4 weeks, then rechallenge test.Jan
Posted by noa on December 29, 2003, at 18:45:25
In reply to Re: Thyroid dosing}} NOA » SLS, posted by tealady on December 28, 2003, at 12:32:20
Thanks for the references, Tealady. Next time I see my endo I will ask him to explain why the four hour buffer works.
This is the end of the thread.
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