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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by leo33 on December 16, 2003, at 11:28:23
For those of you who are knowledgeable in alternative methods. I am currently taking 37.5 mg of Paxil CR, although it does help my depression and anxiety somewhat, I was wondering what substances help Energy and Confidence and Drive. And do they have and contraindications with Paxil. Thanks for your replies in advance.
Posted by NoMotic on December 16, 2003, at 12:14:07
In reply to Question?? Energy/Confidence/Drive, posted by leo33 on December 16, 2003, at 11:28:23
For me, all of symptoms revolve around two main causes - excessive stress hormones and immune system disturbances. Excessive stress hormones for me are controlled (i only assume, i cannot prove this) through lots of sleep, using caffeine only early in the day or not at all, avoiding alcohol and any drugs, and using anti-cortisol and stress relieving supplements and vits / mins. My immune system disturbances are relieved through a diet that eliminates food sensitivities and eliminates lots of sugar (anti-candida diet). By the way, when I am dehydrated I feel less energetic and motivated.
My motivation, drive, confidence, energy, etc are all at top level when I follow my own personal set of "rules", mostly what I listed above. I suspect everyone is not like me, however most studies of patients with mental disorders indicate excessive stress hormone release and / or improper feedback regulation of stres hormones - which is crucial for adequate, normal functioning of the brain in all respects.
Research + consider everything I listed and you might find answers to your problems. I can give you more specifics if you'd like.
Posted by Franz on December 17, 2003, at 12:08:12
In reply to Re: Question?? Energy/Confidence/Drive, posted by NoMotic on December 16, 2003, at 12:14:07
which are your anti-cortisol and stress relieving supplements ?
Thanks
Posted by leo33 on December 17, 2003, at 13:39:03
In reply to Re: Question?? Energy/Confidence/Drive » NoMotic, posted by Franz on December 17, 2003, at 12:08:12
If you could be more specific, that would be great!
Posted by Franz on December 17, 2003, at 14:46:57
In reply to Re: Question?? Energy/Confidence/Drive, posted by leo33 on December 17, 2003, at 13:39:03
> If you could be more specific, that would be great!
you said you take anti-cortisol and stress relieving supplements.
so I ask: which ones?
thanks
Posted by NoMotic on December 17, 2003, at 19:58:37
In reply to Re: Question?? Energy/Confidence/Drive » leo33, posted by Franz on December 17, 2003, at 14:46:57
Take it easy now, you didn't even give me 24 horus to reply!! :)
Well anyway, I put less emphasis on supps than I do the actual fact that my stress hormones are easily thrown off balance, or so I assume. As for supplements that actually reduce cortisol (as shown by studies) that I've used, I haven't found one that I really really like. www.qualitycounts.com has a cortisol section where they list cortisol controlling supplements. I've use Relora, but only for a few days which seems to be far too sedating. I've used St. John's Wort, which probably reduces cortisol in humans, as it does in rats. This probably has too much of a serotonin-ish dumbing effect for me, but I still enjoy using it, since it does have subjective stress reducing qualities for me. I've used L-theanine, tho not in the long term. IN the short term its very good at relieving anxiety, but poor at making me feel happy + relaxed, which I define as my own personal anti-stress hormone response. Acetyl-L-Carnitine has a decent effect on me, a rather nice mildly stimulating quality and mildly stress relieving.
B vits are anti-stress in some respects, mostly if your body is not using them correctly or you dont get enough or your body uses too much up at too quick of a rate. In that case, B vits may provide relief. B6 has a noticable sedating effect on me. Anything that you're low on could have effects theoretically. Many neurotransmitters use Iron and Zinc in their formation.
I feel that Kava is my number herb, ever. It has supreme anti-stress qualities, supreme stimulant qualities (yes, stimulant) that begin 3 days after use, acts as an antidepressant, and memory enhancing properties. If there wasnt the convern over the liver problems, Id use it every day, no question about it. It makes me feel SIGNIFICANTLY better, better than better. Thats me, though. Some people dont react as well to it. Also, I dont recall it having definite cortisol or glucocorticoid lowering properties as verified by studies. It very well may, but who knows.
I also very much enjoy the anti-depressant, anti-anxiety, stimulating qualities of lemon balm and shizandra. These are my 2 second favorite herbs.
I've tried Rhodiola... felt like St. John's Wort to me, but not as good. I really didn't feel much of an effect at all to be honest, besides my subjective rating of stress was a bit lower. It had a little bit of a dumbing effect on my memory. I felt anxious in conversation sometimes... It's nothing compared to Kava though.
I am able to lower my subjective feelings of stress very well with 5-HTP. This makes me feel VERY relaxed and able to work at a task without distractions or worries but has a numbing effect on my brain... sometimes the nice way it makes me feel is much more worth it than the mild dumbing effect that seems to be typical of anything that raises serotonin without raising dopamine as well. Interestingly, 5-HTP acutely raises cortisol A LOT. I can't tell what effect, if any, this has on me... all I know is that 5-HTP is a very good supplement.
As I said, my top rememies for me personally are being very aware of my caffeine use and alcohol usage (alcohol especially can have major stress enhancing properties a few days after you've gotten drunk) and getting lots of sleep. Getting 8 - 9 hours of sleep almost secures a definite nice low stress day. Getting 4 hours almost definitely will make me feel stressed out. Again, this is me personally. Food allergies may indirectly promote stress hormone release through activation of cytokines that can alter the HPA axis. That's very interesting stuff, in my opinion, since I have several food allergies I can directly relate to symptoms. Rice gives me heart palpitations consistantly, 45 minutes or so after eating it, and this is as obvious an indicator of stress hormone release that you can get. The only way I see my heart rate increasing is through increased binding at Beta 2 adrenoceptors (i think taking a beta blocker should theoretically lower my symptoms) by epinephrine or norepinephrine... i dont know of many ways to increase heart rate besides this. How this happens from a food... is obvious a flawed reaction in the body. But i guess it is possible through cytokines!
I am so bent on naming stress hormones as the causitive factor in my problems because Ive read about how many problems it causes and how many different pathways it can mess up your brain. Cortisol enhances serotonin uptake, atrophies the hippocampus, reduces PFC and NAc functioning via lower NE and DA in the PFC, messes up blood sugar leading to more stress hormones, it causes subsensitivity of 5-HT1a receptors and super-sensitivity of 5-HT2a receptors. I can't remember all the other things Ive read off the top of my head, but lets just say im convinced.
Posted by btnd on December 18, 2003, at 7:46:28
In reply to Re: Question?? Energy/Confidence/Drive, posted by NoMotic on December 17, 2003, at 19:58:37
> I feel that Kava is my number herb, ever. It has supreme anti-stress qualities, supreme stimulant qualities (yes, stimulant) that begin 3 days after use, acts as an antidepressant, and memory enhancing properties. If there wasnt the convern over the liver problems, Id use it every day, no question about it. It makes me feel SIGNIFICANTLY better, better than better. Thats me, though. Some people dont react as well to it. Also, I dont recall it having definite cortisol or glucocorticoid lowering properties as verified by studies. It very well may, but who knows.
Which Kava-Kava brand do you use and how many kavalactones have effect on you?
Posted by NoMotic on December 18, 2003, at 10:13:50
In reply to Re: Question?? Energy/Confidence/Drive » NoMotic, posted by btnd on December 18, 2003, at 7:46:28
New Chapter's Brand I find the most effective. I had success also with the Gaia brand (capsule form) and Enzymatic Therapy's Kava 60. Really to be honest, though, i haven't felt much difference between brands for the most part. Except there was like one brand that I used that was of inferior quality, but I can't remember which brand. And New Chapter's Kava / Ginger Tonic is superior to the rest, for sure.
It's most effective 3 or 4 days after starting. The difference between dose one and day four is a lot for me. That's when the anti-depressant or stimulant effects really kick in. I've taken anywhere from 60 mg lactones / day to the upper range of like 280 / day. I find both to be almost equally helpful, especially after that 4 day period. For the people suspicious of liver problems, maybe just go with the low dose.I use Kava for like 10 days to 2 weeks at a time, and the difference in my productivity is immense. I'm twice as productive. School and work become quite easy. I suppose I might have more problems with ADD or anxiety rather than depression... since, it kicks in very quickly, and supposedly it activates the mesocortical (as i remember?) dopamine system, which is messed up in ADD. It's involved in motivation. So maybe it has such a difference in me because that area is my main weak spot and maybe causes most of my issues.
But I have to say, every time I take Kava, I'm blown away by the way it makes me feel... its so good for me. I've wondered if other people have such success with it.
Posted by jparsell82 on December 24, 2003, at 17:51:33
In reply to Re: Question?? Energy/Confidence/Drive, posted by NoMotic on December 17, 2003, at 19:58:37
> Take it easy now, you didn't even give me 24 horus to reply!! :)
>
> Well anyway, I put less emphasis on supps than I do the actual fact that my stress hormones are easily thrown off balance, or so I assume. As for supplements that actually reduce cortisol (as shown by studies) that I've used, I haven't found one that I really really like. www.qualitycounts.com has a cortisol section where they list cortisol controlling supplements. I've use Relora, but only for a few days which seems to be far too sedating. I've used St. John's Wort, which probably reduces cortisol in humans, as it does in rats. This probably has too much of a serotonin-ish dumbing effect for me, but I still enjoy using it, since it does have subjective stress reducing qualities for me. I've used L-theanine, tho not in the long term. IN the short term its very good at relieving anxiety, but poor at making me feel happy + relaxed, which I define as my own personal anti-stress hormone response. Acetyl-L-Carnitine has a decent effect on me, a rather nice mildly stimulating quality and mildly stress relieving.
>
> B vits are anti-stress in some respects, mostly if your body is not using them correctly or you dont get enough or your body uses too much up at too quick of a rate. In that case, B vits may provide relief. B6 has a noticable sedating effect on me. Anything that you're low on could have effects theoretically. Many neurotransmitters use Iron and Zinc in their formation.
>
> I feel that Kava is my number herb, ever. It has supreme anti-stress qualities, supreme stimulant qualities (yes, stimulant) that begin 3 days after use, acts as an antidepressant, and memory enhancing properties. If there wasnt the convern over the liver problems, Id use it every day, no question about it. It makes me feel SIGNIFICANTLY better, better than better. Thats me, though. Some people dont react as well to it. Also, I dont recall it having definite cortisol or glucocorticoid lowering properties as verified by studies. It very well may, but who knows.
>
> I also very much enjoy the anti-depressant, anti-anxiety, stimulating qualities of lemon balm and shizandra. These are my 2 second favorite herbs.
>
> I've tried Rhodiola... felt like St. John's Wort to me, but not as good. I really didn't feel much of an effect at all to be honest, besides my subjective rating of stress was a bit lower. It had a little bit of a dumbing effect on my memory. I felt anxious in conversation sometimes... It's nothing compared to Kava though.
>
>
>
> I am able to lower my subjective feelings of stress very well with 5-HTP. This makes me feel VERY relaxed and able to work at a task without distractions or worries but has a numbing effect on my brain... sometimes the nice way it makes me feel is much more worth it than the mild dumbing effect that seems to be typical of anything that raises serotonin without raising dopamine as well. Interestingly, 5-HTP acutely raises cortisol A LOT. I can't tell what effect, if any, this has on me... all I know is that 5-HTP is a very good supplement.
>
> As I said, my top rememies for me personally are being very aware of my caffeine use and alcohol usage (alcohol especially can have major stress enhancing properties a few days after you've gotten drunk) and getting lots of sleep. Getting 8 - 9 hours of sleep almost secures a definite nice low stress day. Getting 4 hours almost definitely will make me feel stressed out. Again, this is me personally. Food allergies may indirectly promote stress hormone release through activation of cytokines that can alter the HPA axis. That's very interesting stuff, in my opinion, since I have several food allergies I can directly relate to symptoms. Rice gives me heart palpitations consistantly, 45 minutes or so after eating it, and this is as obvious an indicator of stress hormone release that you can get. The only way I see my heart rate increasing is through increased binding at Beta 2 adrenoceptors (i think taking a beta blocker should theoretically lower my symptoms) by epinephrine or norepinephrine... i dont know of many ways to increase heart rate besides this. How this happens from a food... is obvious a flawed reaction in the body. But i guess it is possible through cytokines!
>
> I am so bent on naming stress hormones as the causitive factor in my problems because Ive read about how many problems it causes and how many different pathways it can mess up your brain. Cortisol enhances serotonin uptake, atrophies the hippocampus, reduces PFC and NAc functioning via lower NE and DA in the PFC, messes up blood sugar leading to more stress hormones, it causes subsensitivity of 5-HT1a receptors and super-sensitivity of 5-HT2a receptors. I can't remember all the other things Ive read off the top of my head, but lets just say im convinced.
That's odd that Rhodiola had a dumbing effect on you. Maybe you should give it another shot. It's been shown to improve memory and learning in studies. I notice an improvement in physical energy & stress also.
This is the end of the thread.
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