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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by NotAddicted on March 22, 2004, at 6:49:23
Anyone experience this? I take a few things I find really helpful, but have found I kept adding and adding and was taking loads of "stuff". I am now gearing down and just using what I really find helpful.
I was starting to feel a lot like the search for the "prefect" med (doesn't usually happen)..... and I could just keep adding and adding until my suppliments were the biggest expensive of the month.
As said before, some I do find helpful, but others didn't seem to do much or made me feel worse.
I was just wondering if anyone else felt they had gotten a bit obsessive (not necessarily in a clinical sense) about their use of suppliments?
Posted by joebob on March 22, 2004, at 8:57:51
In reply to Suppliment Burnout... anyone but me?, posted by NotAddicted on March 22, 2004, at 6:49:23
Posted by NotAddicted on March 22, 2004, at 10:58:24
In reply to which do you find helpful? (nm) » NotAddicted, posted by joebob on March 22, 2004, at 8:57:51
Talking strictly from a mood and emotional "wellbeing" standpoint (I do use other stuff for different ailments I am challenged with)...I think the only one to make a difference is Fish oil. I do use some Magnesium, not really for any mood effect, per se. The Mag is ok, but, for me has not been the "miracle" it was claimed to be in a "next wonderful" alternative in some info out about a year ago.
I have never really expected miracles from supplimentation, but some have been, for me, ALMOST as bad a med trials.
I don't think some folks realize that it can get overwhelming and costly. I'm not knocking it. If multiple stuff is working for anybody.... I think it's great.
I really wanted to know if others felt as I do....
So, I answered your question... what are your thoughts on my take???
Posted by joebob on March 22, 2004, at 16:18:43
In reply to Re: which do you find helpful? » joebob, posted by NotAddicted on March 22, 2004, at 10:58:24
over the last 25 years, and i would say some are great and some are not
quailty is a big issue, as is what you are taking it for
for my depression i did end up taking lexapro and am still on it
fish oils, i think there is a big difference in what will really work long term and what won't, that said, most people are better off taking any fish oils rather than none
one last thing about supplements, i think a lot of the real benefits may come long term, and msy be in what you don't get more than what you do have now.....when i got started it was all considered a waste of time and money, but time itself has shown the skeptics to be wrongwhat are you not addicted to?
Posted by joebob on March 22, 2004, at 16:21:44
In reply to Re: which do you find helpful? » joebob, posted by NotAddicted on March 22, 2004, at 10:58:24
it is better,simpler and cheaper to start with basics and then add what you need as you need it
basics are a real and good multiple, vit c, fish oils, etc
Posted by NotAddicted on March 22, 2004, at 16:41:52
In reply to actually i've had a lot of experience with supps, posted by joebob on March 22, 2004, at 16:18:43
"what are you not addicted to?"
Klonopin... it's my cause celeb, with the realization it and it's cousins are awful for some. It's been a lifesaver for me and I've avoided the pitfalls... I'm pretty proud of that therefore, the ID.
I do plan to stay with what I have found helpful... I have learned to not be so quick to try additional "stuff".
Thanks for your answering my question.
Posted by GabaGirl on March 24, 2004, at 20:33:10
In reply to actually i've had a lot of experience with supps, posted by joebob on March 22, 2004, at 16:18:43
Yes, it does get expensive especially when you try different forms and brands that are marketed as being better, and may well be in many cases, and not so much in others.
So far I agree that fish oil supplementation has been very worthwhile and switching to a higher quality source too with high EPA, made a difference for me. Magnesium seems to be promising, but time will tell, and the more general multivitamin/mineral, and B complex I've been taking forever it seems only somewhat helpful. Too bad insurance does not cover them!
Diet to me matters too, and I've been trying to get most of my nutrition through that, but it's not easy. I guess though there are no "miracle cures" meds or otherwise, no silver bullets, just trial and error, and no one combo of diet, supplements or meds is one size fits all.
But so many of these books I see seem to promote that impression, give false hope, but miss the complete picture and mislead people. Not so different from the big pharm companies in a way, as we live in a profit motivated world, and not all of that is bad. But I think you have to maintain a healthy skepticism, yet be curious, open to new research, and pragmatic too, and watch your pocket book!
Research, read, and if convinced they may be helpful, try alternatives working with a sympathetic doctor hopefully. I found one finally, by accident really. Just starting with her, but feel good about it and like I'm not adding anything that might interact with meds, etc...
I feel the same burnout with meds though myself. I've tried so many, been on them so long, and don't always notice the benefit, but usually do notice the side effects and drain on my finances!
Still hanging in there though and keeping the faith, so to speak, just not as convinced that I'll finally find the perfect combo that'll do it forever for me. I just keep trying new things based on research and other's experience, then by trial and error, and keep going with what works, what I can afford, and leave the rest behind...
Best,
GabaGirl
Posted by NotAddicted on March 25, 2004, at 5:05:39
In reply to Re: actually i've had a lot of experience with supps, posted by GabaGirl on March 24, 2004, at 20:33:10
and true---thanks!!
Posted by GabaGirl on March 26, 2004, at 22:13:08
In reply to Re: actually i've had a lot of experience with supps, posted by GabaGirl on March 24, 2004, at 20:33:10
Thanks!
I can just so much identify with your frustration. Myself, I just started taking a few supplements beyond the basics and am noticing some slight changes. Whether they will last is another post months on down the line...
Need to start a new thread too I suppose on side effects from supplements! I don't know if it's the fish oil, the magnesium, or both that's got me running for the bathroom every five minutes in the mornings AND evenings, for instance... They may be "natural" and make you more "regular" but that can have a double meaning apparently! And not so disimilar from med reactions, no? Like for example, for me Lexapro was a serious gastrointestinal disaster... This is even worse I think!
Any experiences with inositol? I'm diagnosed with bipolar, btw, but deal with depression most of the time, worst in the winter, sort of a SAD over-or under- lay I suppose. But I just started yesterday taking powdered Inositol with juice and water -- it tastes great, btw, but is sweet, so for me extra water is needed. I do think it gave me a boost this morning at any rate. Not long lasting, alas, but still a noticeable difference -- maybe take it in divided doses throughout the day? I took advantage of the $7.50 deal for 227 grams a previous poster suggested through a sports fitness distributor. Can repost the source and/or post for anyone interested. Just don't have the links bookmarked at home, only at work and starting to seriously fade tonight.
Interested though in what has worked and what hasn't for others and also what experiences they have with their prescribing doctors and alternative treatments. Open, cautious, or adamantly opposed? I've encountered the whole range thus far...
Also, anyone check out http://remedyfind.com? I found it pretty cool and interesting. Nice to see meds and alt therapies rated by patients for a change in longer term clinical and personal practice as opposed to time limited clinical trials with no follow up. It was started by a guy, Brett Hodges, who is diaganosed with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, but the site also covers depression, ADD, anxiety, and bipolar amongst other conditions. Nicely he includes links to clinical trials on different meds and supps when you look at them individually. I posted a few ratings for meds so far, but the verdict is still out on other treatments so maybe I'll post more later. Anyone look at this site?
Best,
GabaGirl
Posted by NotAddicted on March 27, 2004, at 6:42:24
In reply to Very nice post NotAddicted, posted by GabaGirl on March 26, 2004, at 22:13:08
I will be the first one to admit that I probably started out a bit hard and fast with the use of suppliments. I guess it was the hope there was an "it" to my problems and gave me a little way to be more proactive about this process of getting "well".
What I found did not live up to the promise I had envisioned. It all sounded so GOOD. So, perhaps that's the real issue for me. I think I did expect miracles... at first.
I am continuing with the few things I like and feel are helpful. I do know some things, indeed, make me feel worse... emotionally and physically.
I have an anxiety disorder with depresssion not being the main part of the mix, although, is there at times... usually when the anxiety is ill controlled.
As said before, I'm not so quick to add anymore.
I do think we should give the same caution and attention to supplimenting as we should have with starting new meds. Just because its supplimenting doesn't mean it can't be harmful or make things worse. And there's ALOT of marketing out there, just as there are with meds... it's really easy to buy into that when you are trying to feel better and you're feeling just awful.
Good Luck in your search... I hope you find some very helpful things.
Posted by GabaGirl on March 27, 2004, at 13:51:04
In reply to Re: Very nice post NotAddicted » GabaGirl, posted by NotAddicted on March 27, 2004, at 6:42:24
I think I may be doing the same thing right now though working with my pdoc's suggestions who is very concerned about my depression of late. But within 2 weeks I've started on Carlson's Finest Fish Oil, magnesium/calcium -- which I need to change to just magnesium probably though and see if there's a form of it that causes less side effects! -- and then the inositol. I am waiting on a prescription of Prozac too which I will likely start at only 5mg this Monday. So it's been a bit of a blitz for me lately. I feel so much less control when depression hits, but do hope I find some things that work.
So far the fish oil and inositol seem the most helpful. But I'm also battling a lot of extreme fatigue of late which only the inositol seems to benefit. I need to get a comprehensive physical and lab work done ASAP to see if any other factors may be contributing to that. My doc thinks it's the depression and my meds, but I sense something else may be amiss since I've been on the Zyprexa and Neurontin combo since early 1999 and not had these problems to this extent. Plus I'm now only taking 2.5-5 mg of Zyprexa, as opposed to 10 or even more earlier.
Tried any of the below for anxiety?
Passionflower
Bach's Rescue Remedy
Taurine
GABA
Hops
Valerian
Kava Kava
Tryptophan - from turkey mainly - never tried the supplement myselfWhile not in a hypomanic phase now, when I am in one I often experience periods of intense anxiety and even full fledged panic attacks. I have a whole arsenal of back-ups in terms of supplements and herbs I use then -- also to help me maintain during work days and offset my hyper, restless energy. What's been most effective for me then has been passionflower tea especially, though the tincture works OK, then Bach's Rescue Remedy several times a day. Also have tried taurine, hops, valerian, kava kava, GABA and eating lots of turkey. Not sure about any of them as much as passionflower and Rescue Remedy, but turkey burgers definitely helped!
> I will be the first one to admit that I probably started out a bit hard and fast with the use of suppliments. I guess it was the hope there was an "it" to my problems and gave me a little way to be more proactive about this process of getting "well".
>
> What I found did not live up to the promise I had envisioned. It all sounded so GOOD. So, perhaps that's the real issue for me. I think I did expect miracles... at first.
>
> I am continuing with the few things I like and feel are helpful. I do know some things, indeed, make me feel worse... emotionally and physically.
>
> I have an anxiety disorder with depresssion not being the main part of the mix, although, is there at times... usually when the anxiety is ill controlled.
>
> As said before, I'm not so quick to add anymore.
>
> I do think we should give the same caution and attention to supplimenting as we should have with starting new meds. Just because its supplimenting doesn't mean it can't be harmful or make things worse. And there's ALOT of marketing out there, just as there are with meds... it's really easy to buy into that when you are trying to feel better and you're feeling just awful.
>
> Good Luck in your search... I hope you find some very helpful things.
>
Posted by Laura915 on March 30, 2004, at 9:07:10
In reply to Very nice post NotAddicted, posted by GabaGirl on March 26, 2004, at 22:13:08
Inositol will keep you going to the bathroom. It's an undigestible sugar, similar to what they use in sugar-free candy (notorious for that side effect).
I posted a lengthy message on the main board re:klonopin withdrawal that explains my success with amino acid supplements. I have had incredible success so far in managing my withdrawal symptoms and am returning to a calm, relaxed, pain-free existence after years on loads of meds. I was never a big herbal/alternative medicine person until now. I'll never go back.
> Thanks!
>
> I can just so much identify with your frustration. Myself, I just started taking a few supplements beyond the basics and am noticing some slight changes. Whether they will last is another post months on down the line...
>
> Need to start a new thread too I suppose on side effects from supplements! I don't know if it's the fish oil, the magnesium, or both that's got me running for the bathroom every five minutes in the mornings AND evenings, for instance... They may be "natural" and make you more "regular" but that can have a double meaning apparently! And not so disimilar from med reactions, no? Like for example, for me Lexapro was a serious gastrointestinal disaster... This is even worse I think!
>
> Any experiences with inositol? I'm diagnosed with bipolar, btw, but deal with depression most of the time, worst in the winter, sort of a SAD over-or under- lay I suppose. But I just started yesterday taking powdered Inositol with juice and water -- it tastes great, btw, but is sweet, so for me extra water is needed. I do think it gave me a boost this morning at any rate. Not long lasting, alas, but still a noticeable difference -- maybe take it in divided doses throughout the day? I took advantage of the $7.50 deal for 227 grams a previous poster suggested through a sports fitness distributor. Can repost the source and/or post for anyone interested. Just don't have the links bookmarked at home, only at work and starting to seriously fade tonight.
>
> Interested though in what has worked and what hasn't for others and also what experiences they have with their prescribing doctors and alternative treatments. Open, cautious, or adamantly opposed? I've encountered the whole range thus far...
>
> Also, anyone check out http://remedyfind.com? I found it pretty cool and interesting. Nice to see meds and alt therapies rated by patients for a change in longer term clinical and personal practice as opposed to time limited clinical trials with no follow up. It was started by a guy, Brett Hodges, who is diaganosed with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, but the site also covers depression, ADD, anxiety, and bipolar amongst other conditions. Nicely he includes links to clinical trials on different meds and supps when you look at them individually. I posted a few ratings for meds so far, but the verdict is still out on other treatments so maybe I'll post more later. Anyone look at this site?
>
> Best,
>
> GabaGirl
>
>
>
>
Posted by spoc on April 10, 2004, at 14:40:54
In reply to Very nice post NotAddicted, posted by GabaGirl on March 26, 2004, at 22:13:08
Hi GabaGirl,
Just wanted to take any opportunity to pay a compliment to the Remedyfind site. Such a noble effort to look into and rate anything feasible under the sun. And Brett Hodges is a great guy. He is very accessible and communicative and even forwarded me some great info by email (I shouldn't say that though -- the poor guy may be way too busy to do that on a regular basis).
I had been reading info and also posting some info about my own experiences there, then got sidetracked away from the site by some shiny objects and bells and whistles I must have seen somewhere else, as I often do. I have this Internet addiction that has me spending untold days or months on anything great that I stumble on and then I never get back to previous great ones. Even if I follow a "Resources" link from a site I adore, if I am also blown away by what I find at the link, I may be gone daddy gone. I began camping out at PB in a similar way, but have a running list of favorites to go back to; and another running list of new ones to try. Gives me a figurative headache and works against the usefulness of the whole "hobby." But oops, that's a subject for an addiction thread. Think it would fit under PB Substance Use????
Apologies, only wanted to second the motion on Remedyfind, and I am pretty 'dadburn' picky! : )
======
> Also, anyone check out http://remedyfind.com? I found it pretty cool and interesting. Nice to see meds and alt therapies rated by patients for a change in longer term clinical and personal practice as opposed to time limited clinical trials with no follow up. It was started by a guy, Brett Hodges, who is diaganosed with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, but the site also covers depression, ADD, anxiety, and bipolar amongst other conditions. Nicely he includes links to clinical trials on different meds and supps when you look at them individually. I posted a few ratings for meds so far, but the verdict is still out on other treatments so maybe I'll post more later. Anyone look at this site? >
This is the end of the thread.
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