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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on April 30, 2004, at 1:01:23
I'm perfectly stable on my meds right now, which include a stimulant (Prozac, Klonopin, & Adderall), and have been feeling great on this combination for about six months. Even with my depressive, anxiety, and attentional dysfunction symptoms totally eradicated (not to mention successfully losing weight on Atkins -- 55 lbs. in two months and counting!), I find that I've always been one of those people who's searching for something "more than human." That is to say, the prospect of (*safe*) performance/mind-enhancing practices (e.g. tai chi, transcendental meditation, binaural beats, self-hypnotism) and supplements has always intrigued me. So naturally I became a bit excited when I read about the French "supplement" (it's prescription in Europe) called sulbutiamine (brand name 'Arcalion'), a derivative of vitamin B-1 (thiamin) and a tonic/adaptogen/stimulant/potential anti-depressant. I'm definitely wanting to try this stuff, and would like to know of any experiences anyone's had. Arcalion can be ordered from a variety of places online, but there's another alternative called "Ravive" (designed for ravers to take the day after MDMA to nourish their brains/bodies) that contains sulbutiamine along with 5-HTP and a bunch of other nice stuff.
Anyway, someone let me know what they think of this stuff, or at least if you've got any good research on it!
P.S. In case anyone's interested, my current supplement/medication schedule is as follows:
6:00AM - 1 tsp sodium bicarbonate solution, 40mg Prozac, 3mg Klonopin, 30mg Adderall, 500mg acetyl-l-carnitine, 500mg l-tyrosine, 100mg pyridoxal 5' phosphate (P5P), 3,000mg niacinamide time release, 30mg pregnenolone, 2 sublingual sprays Bio-Pro (each spray contains 2mg ATP and 2mg NADH)Before breakfast - 500mg centrophenoxine, 30mg idebenone, 100mg picamilon, 10mg yohimbine, 200ug chromium polynicotinate, 2 tabs Cholvex*, 2mL Total B liquid sublingual B-complex**, 1 tab Green Source multinutrient***
With breakfast - 2 softgels New Chapter Supercritical Stress Advantage****, 10mg vinpocetine, 100ug selenium, 100mg zinc gluconate, 1,000mg ESTER-C Time Release
After breakfast - 2 sprays Bio-Pro, 2 tabs TriVita Sublingual B-12, B-6 & Folic Acid
11:00AM - 1 tsp sodium bicarbonate solution, 2mg Klonopin, 30mg Adderall
Before lunch - 30mg idebenone, 100mg picamilon, 10mg yohimbine, 200ug chromium polynicotinate, 1 tab Green Source
With lunch - 100ug selenium, 100mg P5P
After lunch - 2 sprays Bio-Pro, 2 tabs TriVita
With a snack - 2,000 IU vitamin E (as d-alpha tocopheryl acetate), 5 Iceland Health Maximum Strength Omega-3 (total 2,000mg EPA/1,000mg DHA)
4:00PM - 1 tsp sodium bicarbonate solution, 3mg Klonopin, 30mg Adderall
Before dinner - 500mg centrophenoxine, 30mg idebenone, 100mg picamilon, 10mg yohimbine, 200ug chromium polynicotinate, 1 tab Green Source
With dinner - 100ug selenium, 100mg P5P
After dinner - 2 sprays Bio-Pro, 2 tabs TriVita
Before bed - if needed for sleep, either 2 grams Somnote (chloral hydrate) or 800mg Seconal
*Per 2 tabs of Cholvex: 1,500 citrus pectin, 50mg niacin, 500mg soy protein isolate (90% isoflavones), 85mg phytosterols, 50mg bioflavonoids complex, 5mg inositol
**Per 2mL Total B: 120mg vitamin C, 40mg niacin, 20mg pantothenic acid, 4mg pyridoxine HCl, 4.7mg riboflavin, 3mg thiamin, 650ug biotin, 400ug folic acid, 48ug cyanocobalamin
***Per 3 tabs of Green Source: 15,000 IU vitamin A (as beta-carotene), 400 IU vitamin D, 250 IU vitamin E (as d-alpha tocopheryl acid succinate and mixed tocopherols), 25mg thiamin, 25mg mixed riboflavin/riboflavin 5' phosphate, 25mg niacin, 25mg mixed pyridoxyl 5' phosphate/pyridoxine HCl, 400ng folic acid, 25ng cyanocobalamin, 50ng biotin,25mg pantothenic acid, 250mg calcium, 125mg magnesium, 15mg zinc, 25ng selenium, 500ng copper, 4mg manganese, 400ng chromium, 50ng molybdenum, 50mg potassium, 1mg boron, 50mg choline bitartrate, 25mg inositol, 25mg para-aminobenzoic acid, 100mg citrus bioflavonoids complex (Citrus sinensis), 25mg quercetin (from Dimorphandra mollis), 25mg rutin (Dimorphandra mollis), 10mg hesperidin complex (Citrus spp.), 20mg bromelain (pineapple-2000 GDU/gm), 20mg betaine HCl, 20mg papain, 5mg amylase, 5mg lipase, 1mg protease, 2.5mg cellulase, 25mg proprietary lactobacillus blend (L. acidophilus, L. bifidus, L. bulgaricus), 25mg oat bran (Avena sativa), 25mg pectin (apple), 35mg RNA, 10mg DNA, 10mg carotenoids, 4mg chlorophyll, 100mg vegetable oil (borage and sunflower), 5mg l-glutathione, 1,000mg spirulina (Spirulina plantensis), 100mg wheat grass (Triticum sativum), 100mg barley juice concentrate (Hordeum vulgare), 100mg flaxseed oil (Linum ustatissimum), 100mg Chinese chlorella (Algae spp.), 100mg bee pollen, 50mg Korean ginseng (Panax ginseng), 10mg dehydrated garlic (Allium sativum), 60mg proprietary herbal blend (echinacea [Echinacea purpurea], milk thistle [Silybum marianum], goldenseal [Hydrastis canadensis], ginger root [Zingiber officinale], gingko biloba [Gingko biloba], cayenne pepper [Capsicum annum)
****Per 2 softgels of Stress Advantage: 100mg schizandra berry (Schisandra chinensis), min. 1.6% schizandrins; 100mg American ginseng root (Panax quinquefolius), min. 4% ginsenosides; 100mg eleuthero leaf (Eleutherococcus senticosus), min. 0.6% total eleutherosides; 100mg rhodiola root (Rhodiola rosea), min. 36% polyphenols and min. 0.8% salidroside); 34mg Curcuma xanthorrhyza rhizome supercritical extract, min. 25% curcuminoids and min. 7% xanthorrhizol); 66mg Curcuma xanthorrhyza rhizome PSE extract, min. 3% curcuminoids; 26mg Alpinia galanga rhizome, min. 60% total curcuminoids and min. 1% 1,8-cineole; 74mg Alpinia galangal rhizome PSE extract; turmeric rhizome (Curcuma longa), 10mg extract (min. 45% turmerones) and 40mg hydroethanolic extract (min. 11% curcuminoids); 50mg astragalus root, min. 0.4% hydroxy-3-methoxyisoflavone-7-sug; 4mg ginger rhizome (Zingiber officinale) supercritical extract, min. 30% pungent compounds and min. 8% zingiberene; 16mg ginger rhizome (Zingiber officinale) PSE extract, min. 2% pungent compounds
Posted by LOOPS on April 30, 2004, at 14:09:26
In reply to OTC Stimulant Arcalion -- too good to be true?, posted by Ame Sans Vie on April 30, 2004, at 1:01:23
Hiya -
how have you found the bio-pro spray? I ordered some awhile back, but haven't gotten round to using it, as it has NADH in it - which doesn't have consistent effects on me.
Do you find acetyl-l-carnitine makes you any more hungry than usual? I tolerate this stuff much better if I take it with ALA and COQ10 - and it does make a big difference in my mental resilience to stress.
Off topic here, but I recently found I really like inositol if I take it with some l-glutamine. If I take it on its own I get too hyper.
Posted by samplemethod on May 1, 2004, at 13:52:24
In reply to Re: OTC Stimulant Arcalion -- too good to be true?, posted by LOOPS on April 30, 2004, at 14:09:26
Loops,
what does ALCAR feel like when you dont take it with ALA and C0q10
I think I too get a bit hyper/emotional if I take inositol by itself (bout 1gram but im sensitive)...i might try it with glutamine as you suggest
have you tried taurine??
Posted by LOOPS on May 2, 2004, at 10:29:32
In reply to Re: OTC Stimulant Arcalion -- too good to be true? » LOOPS, posted by samplemethod on May 1, 2004, at 13:52:24
> Loops,
>
> what does ALCAR feel like when you dont take it with ALA and C0q10
>
> I think I too get a bit hyper/emotional if I take inositol by itself (bout 1gram but im sensitive)...i might try it with glutamine as you suggest
>
> have you tried taurine??Hi -
funny you should ask - I just ordered some taurine today - so I'll let you know how that effects me.
About the ALC - I have a bottle of just ALC and found I didn't like it on it's own; I found I could tolerate 250mg, but bump it up to 500mg and I began to get a bit irritable and VERY HUNGRY.
ALA is supposed to support ALC in terms of anti-oxidant effect. I am also vegan so Q10 is a good idea. All three together (found a good brand) work MUCH better. I only take like a third of a pill at a time though - I don't think you need much of this stuff to get quite a strong effect.
About the inositol - I am very careful with this, but also very pleased with its effects. I now take 500mg inositol along with 400mg GABA, 100mg chelated magnesium, 500mg l-glutamine, 500mg niacinamide and 1g vit C for each dose.
I dropped the lithium orotate for the time being to see how I fare. Basically my eczema has been clearing up a lot in the last few days - this may be coincidence, but low levels of inositol have been associated with eczema.
Loops
Posted by samplemethod on May 5, 2004, at 7:44:23
In reply to Re: OTC Stimulant Arcalion -- too good to be true? » samplemethod, posted by LOOPS on May 2, 2004, at 10:29:32
how did it go LOOPS?
Posted by LOOPS on May 5, 2004, at 9:28:31
In reply to Re: OTC Stimulant Arcalion -- too good to be true? » LOOPS, posted by samplemethod on May 5, 2004, at 7:44:23
> how did it go LOOPS?
Hiya -
The last week has been completely mental to say the least.
The l-glutamine started to have the OPPOSITE effect on me 3 days in (more hyped up), so I stopped taking this.
Then the day before yesterday my much-awaited l-tryptophan arrived through the post.
Previously to this, I'd tried taking some True Calm tablet which contains taurine, and found it DID calm me down, but I didn't feel that great (still a bit anxious - knot in my stomach feeling etc).
So the night before last, I took 600mg tryptophan with some orange juice. Gradually over the next hour began to come back to earth again, and not in a 'down' way.
Yesterday I took 3 doses of 600mg, and had the calmest, mellowest day I've had in a couple of years. It DID NOT even make me sleepy, which was a worry for me. I had a good game of tennis, which shows it does not necessarily lead to lack of motivation etc, which happened with the 5-htp.
Well it's only day 3 today, so we shall see.
By the way I found an excellent article on Tryptophan by James South which really explains how it all works. Apparently you want to reduce cortisol whilst taking l-tryptophan, or some enzyme in the liver stops tryptophan being metabolized (I think). So the ALC is a great adjunct for tryptophan as it reduces cortisol reactions.
http://www.antiaging-systems.com/extract/ltrypt.htm;
This confirms that I have been doing the right thing taking the B3 with the tryptophan.
By the way an unexpected benefit was regarding my drinking problem. Last night I had very little incentive to go grab a beer and drink. This will be a double whammy as booze actually exacerbates serotonin-deficit syndrome. However I am addicted. If I can reduce my alchohol intake even further by using tryptophan supplementation, I might have hit on the answer(some of it).
I'll let you know if this regime continues to work or if not...
Loops
Posted by btnd on May 28, 2004, at 6:49:49
In reply to Re: OTC Stimulant Arcalion -- too good to be true? » samplemethod, posted by LOOPS on May 2, 2004, at 10:29:32
> > I think I too get a bit hyper/emotional if I take inositol by itself (bout 1gram but im sensitive)...i might try it with glutamine as you suggest
> >
> > have you tried taurine??
>
.........I'm surprised that you haven't tried (heard) of vit.b5 (pantothenic acid). it was the best treatment for my eczema. the cheapest source is at www.beyond-a-century.com (as always with vitamins). check this out:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=b5%20eczema&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wg
Posted by LOOPS on May 28, 2004, at 9:57:34
In reply to Re: OTC Stimulant Arcalion -- too good to be true?, posted by btnd on May 28, 2004, at 6:49:49
>
> > > I think I too get a bit hyper/emotional if I take inositol by itself (bout 1gram but im sensitive)...i might try it with glutamine as you suggest
> > >
> > > have you tried taurine??
> >
> .........
>
I'm surprised that you haven't tried (heard) of vit.b5 (pantothenic acid). it was the best treatment for my eczema. the cheapest source is at www.beyond-a-century.com (as always with vitamins). check this out:
>
> http://groups.google.com/groups?q=b5%20eczema&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wg
Hiya -you meant taking B-5 internally? Because I take a lot of B vitamins, and am getting a lot of B-5 as a result. My guess would be that my eczema would get a lot worse if I stopped taking it -but it's still quite bad right now.
I find the inositol goes well with either 5-htp or tryptophan. I don't know why it seems to have an activating action when it's supposed to regulate serotonin levels. Maybe if there is not enough tryptophan going round the body/brain to start with makes it more activating for some people.
I have tried taurine and it does seem to be quite calming. However I took it on an empty stomach and it gave me bad acid.
Loops
>
>
Posted by madwand on October 24, 2004, at 16:15:37
In reply to OTC Stimulant Arcalion -- too good to be true?, posted by Ame Sans Vie on April 30, 2004, at 1:01:23
Greetings,
I have been away from the board for a while (and wondering if anyone still remembers me). Not sure if you and I ever crossed paths (although your handle is familiar).
Anyway, I realize that is an old thread but I am wondering if you ever learned anything more about Arcalion/sulbutiamine. I just tripped over it in an odd corner of the web but have been able to find out very little about it. Serdia's website says:
"Arcalion is a symptomatic treatment of functional asthenia. It is intended for the various manifestations of asthenia such as fatigue, memory difficulties, intellectual tiredness and convalescence from illness and infections"
which sounds like it might be a good thing for what I have been assuming is a combination of depression and ADD (am being medicated for both).
I notice that the followups to your thread went in a different direction but I was hoping you might have learned something from other directions. I have been toying with ordering some online (my first step into that particular universe) but I would love to find at least product circular first.
Posted by Anonymous 4161 on November 15, 2004, at 14:07:31
In reply to OTC Stimulant Arcalion -- too good to be true?, posted by Ame Sans Vie on April 30, 2004, at 1:01:23
Why did you stop: Namenda, Duragesic, and Avinza? I am hopeful for something that can reverse Adderall tolerance- I think the amount I take is too much for my heart. I tried Ebixa (Namenda, but you knew that, of course) and I did not like at all the way I felt on it. How is this combination working? It looks like you've gone natural.
Posted by gromit on November 17, 2004, at 4:48:06
In reply to Re: OTC Stimulant Arcalion -- too good to be true?, posted by Anonymous 4161 on November 15, 2004, at 14:07:31
I have not tried it but http://www.smi2le.biz has it in bulk form for a good price.
Rick
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