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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Minnie-Haha on May 11, 2004, at 16:59:55
I read on the board here that some use Calcium and Magnesium successfully to help them sleep. I have been trying it the last few nights and it seems to help somewhat (especially the first night I tried it). I'm taking 500mg Calcium carbonate and 250mg Magnesium oxide.
The thing is, my skin seems to be itchy. Is this a common side effect of taking these supplements? Is there a way around it? Other suggestions?
I have been on a low-level of Ativan (benzo) at bedtime for 7 months now and I want off SO BAD. I have tried Melatonin and Valerian (separately) and didn't care for how those made me feel. I am DXd BP2, so I need to be careful not to take anything that could play into that.
Also, taking the calcium and/or magnesium, I seem to wake up with a little bit of an upset stomach. I have reflux, so I'm not supposed to eat for at least 2 hours before bed, but since the minerals are supposed to be taken "preferably with a meal" (according to the bottles), I've been eating 3-4 saltine crackers when I take them. Any suggestions on how best to take them to avoid an upset stomach?
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 16, 2004, at 17:09:17
In reply to Rash and Calcium / Magnesium ?, posted by Minnie-Haha on May 11, 2004, at 16:59:55
Hi Minnie,
Cal/Mag, especially Mg is great stuff, but there is an art to it. Magnesium can cause gastric upsets, bloating, diarrea. Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) is real blow-out material! Different forms can help.Magnesium glycinate is supposed to be the least gastric upsetting. The form I like best is Magnesium taurate which is bonded to L-taurine and increases the physical and mood calming effect. I seem to have the best response to it although there is still a laxitive effect. There is also Mg aspartate, but aspartate is an exitatory amino acid and is too energizing for me. These forms are more expensive than Mg oxide but are supposedly better transported within the cells.
The other thing to consider is bioavailability and research stating that zinc and B6 are important cofactors for magnesium. Inorganic forms of minerals can be hard to assimilate. Natural sources, like coral calcium, or ionic seawater sources contain a broader mineral spectrum and supposedly are better assimilated. Coral calcium is pulverized coral which analyzes as calcium citrate, but in it's organic form containing other minerals is better utilized.
I get a good Mg Taurate product from Douglas Laboratories (www.douglaslabs.com). A good product for ionic minerals is LiquiMins ConcenTrace Mineral drops (www.traceminerals.com). It contains everything, a seawater source, but does cause loose poops.
Another good one is NOW (www.nowfoods.com) Mg & Calcium with OptiZinc. They use a variety of mineral forms and OptiZinc is a bioavailable form of zinc. I get most of my supplements from www.iherb.com which has the best prices I've found and carry most things. - BarbaraCat
Posted by Emme on May 24, 2004, at 22:06:13
In reply to Re: Rash and Calcium / Magnesium ? » Minnie-Haha, posted by BarbaraCat on May 16, 2004, at 17:09:17
> Inorganic forms of minerals can be hard to assimilate. Natural sources, like coral calcium, or ionic seawater sources contain a broader mineral spectrum and supposedly are better assimilated. Coral calcium is pulverized coral which analyzes as calcium citrate, but in it's organic form containing other minerals is better utilized.Coral Ca is Ca carbonate, which is inorganic, and not as well absorbed as Ca citrate.
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 25, 2004, at 0:15:46
In reply to Re: Rash and Calcium / Magnesium ? » BarbaraCat, posted by Emme on May 24, 2004, at 22:06:13
> Coral Ca is Ca carbonate, which is inorganic, and not as well absorbed as Ca citrate.
>
**Thanks for your reply. This coral CA is a tricky subject. I get leery of the hype on so much of this stuff and it's hard to discern what's true. Some supposedly objective sources claim that the chemical structure is inorganic but having come from an organic living critter is more available and contains synergistic trace elements.The idea of a bioavilable whole form of an injestible satisfies my general philosphy more than a synthetic as long as it's doing what it is supposed to. I also believe there's a biophysical energetic pattern to consider and not just the elemental makeup. A graphite pencil contains the same chemical ingredients as a diamond, but the structure makes all the difference.
But then there are the coral reefs they're mining the stuff from. I can't imagine that it benefits the island's ecosystem as is claimed. Whether or not there's any true benefit in coral CA's form I surely do not know and in the meantime am covering my bases with a whole slew of different forms of nutrient minerals. Maybe when I'm cured I can speak with authority!? - Barbara
Posted by Emme on May 25, 2004, at 10:05:30
In reply to Re: Rash and Calcium / Magnesium ? » Emme, posted by BarbaraCat on May 25, 2004, at 0:15:46
>
> > Coral Ca is Ca carbonate, which is inorganic, and not as well absorbed as Ca citrate.
> >
> **Thanks for your reply. This coral CA is a tricky subject. I get leery of the hype on so much of this stuff and it's hard to discern what's true. Some supposedly objective sources claim that the chemical structure is inorganic but having come from an organic living critter is more available and contains synergistic trace elements.You got me curious and so I looked at a few of coral calcium vendor web sites. You're right about the hype thing. The amazingly bizarro and far-reaching claims they make definitely raise my "quack antennae". One of the web sites said something about providing minerals in ionic form - that's ambiguous and misleading. The thing about raising your body's pH makes no sense. They don't even say what *part* of the body they mean. The stuff would act like antacid in your stomach. Interestingly, the Federal Trade Commission FTC has charged the marketers of Coral Calcium Supreme with making false and unsubstantiated claims about the product's health benefits.
> The idea of a bioavilable whole form of an injestible satisfies my general philosphy more than a synthetic as long as it's doing what it is supposed to. I also believe there's a biophysical energetic pattern to consider and not just the elemental makeup. A graphite
> pencil contains the same chemical
> ingredients as a diamond, but the structure makes all the difference.True about diamond/graphite. In this case, the structure of coral Ca is going to be the same as other Ca carbonate-based supplements. Corals produce calcium carbonate (limestone) minerals as a protective shell. (By mineral I mean geologically, like quartz or diamond for example - not in the vitamin/mineral sense). Ca carbonate formed or mined in any other way will have the same structure. Basically coral Ca is the same stuff as in antacids and classroom chalk. Seashells, which are used in some supplements, are formed analogously to coral, with bivalves making their shells from Ca and carbonate in the water. If a Ca carbonate is purified, it’s solubility will differ a little bit from coral Ca, largely due to the Mg in coral Ca. But that difference would be very small compared to the difference between different Ca forms. Chemically speaking, citrate forms are more bioavailable by a long shot.
The coral Ca will have some Mg because there's lots of Mg in seawater, and it'll have various trace elements. But that'll just be a reflection of what's present in the seawater and not something uniquely therapeutic. The vendors don’t provide information saying which trace elements are present, or how much, or any reliable scientific references on which elements provide health benefits and in what amounts they would be needed. So, you don’t know whether there’s too little of anything to matter, or if there are high concentrations of heavy metals like mercury.
Since the coral Ca is really pricey, I'll just stick with what I've got. I take Mg citrate, and I get the chewy Ca carbonate-based candy-like things because I just can't swallow another darned capsule of anything and you have to take several Ca-citrate capsules to get 1000mg.
Sorry to get carried away and rattle on so long.
> Maybe when I'm cured I can speak with authority!?
When you get cured, let me know how!! :)
cheers,
Emme
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 25, 2004, at 22:48:13
In reply to Re: Rash and Calcium / Magnesium ? » BarbaraCat, posted by Emme on May 25, 2004, at 10:05:30
Thanks for your response, Emme. I have a few bottles of Coral to use up in conjunction with the one I'll probably stick with, NOW Foods Ca/Mg/Zn. The formulation appears to cover most of the Ca/Mg bases with multiple mineral/amino bonds as well as L-Optizinc (zinc L-monomethionine).
>
> When you get cured, let me know how!! :)
>
Watch for the best seller -- a discount for my Babble-Buds! ;) BTW, if you don't mind my asking, what is your science background in all this? You posts are informative and enjoyable to read. - Barbara
Posted by Emme on May 26, 2004, at 10:21:23
In reply to Re: Rash and Calcium / Magnesium ? » Emme, posted by BarbaraCat on May 25, 2004, at 22:48:13
> > When you get cured, let me know how!! :)
> >
> Watch for the best seller -- a discount for my Babble-Buds! ;)We'll be lining up for your book signings! :)
> BTW, if you don't mind my asking, what is your science background in all this? You posts are informative and enjoyable to read.
Oh, thanks! I majored in Geology in college. My grad. degree is also in the earth sciences, but was done in an Environmental Sciences program. Now if I could only manage to get my understanding of biochemistry and psychopharmacology to where I'd like it to be. I miss Larry Hoover.
Emme
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