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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 48 to 72 of 72. Go back in thread:
Posted by KaraS on September 6, 2004, at 18:12:04
In reply to Re: Article I sent Larry » KaraS, posted by Simus on September 6, 2004, at 17:08:47
> > Here's the article I sent Larry and his reaction to it that I was telling you about. I think it's enough for ME to be the one invited along on his next excursion!:
> >
> > > http://www.pcrm.org/health/prevmed/alzheimers.html
> >
> > "Excellent article! I could kiss you! Oh, dear. Gabbi might not like that much.
> >
> > "My relational database brain really liked the way it tied different threads together. I will read this one over and over again, methinks, and springboard from it to other avenues of research. Yes!"
> >
> > Are you running scared yet, Simus?
> > I think you best be planning your own vacation next year!!
>
> Hey! I would have sent him that article, but I sensed how he would react and I didn't want to come between him and Gabbi. I am very sensitive and considerate like that, you know.Really? How sensitive were you when you crashed their last vacation?
>Plus, I didn't want to appear too "show-off"y. LOL Well, you may be included on the next vacation because of your brains,
I just sent it to him. I didn't say I understood it. (I only understood a small fraction of it.)
> but don't count me out yet. If I can track them down to the Swiss Alps, I can track them anywhere! (Wouldn't it be funny if they really did go to the Alps??? LOL)
Gabbi said that they didn't go to the Swiss Alps, remember? Honestly, you'd better hone those skills if you expect to find "us" the next time!
> By the way, that is a very interesting article. I haven't read it all, nor do I understand it all, but it is very encouraging to me that someone in doing work in this area.Yes, I'd like to think that someday someone could fix the damage...
> I will forgive you in time,
>
> Simus(You're too kind!)
Kara
Posted by Simus on September 6, 2004, at 19:19:47
In reply to Re: Kara - not the best day » Simus, posted by KaraS on September 6, 2004, at 17:43:13
> how are you doing today, both physically and mentally?
Hey guys, I am having an evening a little reminiscent of Friday night - but not quite as bad. I ate an early dinner at around 5:00, took my vitamins, and went on with my day. By 7:00ish, I was starting to feel urpy and generally yucky. Anyway, I took benedryl and advil (my typical response to an allergic reaction to something I ate). And I am sipping ginger tea.Here is where I need some input. Today, as on Friday, I took 3000mg evening primrose oil. I usually take 2000mg borage oil, but Friday I remembered I had this "almost gone" bottle of EPO and decided to just use it instead of the borage oil to use it up and throw away the bottle. It wasn't expired yet - I checked. And I had taken EPO up until a couple of months ago instead of the borage oil. Anyhow, could this be what made me so sick on Friday night instead of the licorice???
I will let you know how the night progresses. God forbid I should have a repeat of Friday night.
Thanks,
Simus
Posted by KaraS on September 6, 2004, at 23:26:45
In reply to Kara and Larry - help?, posted by Simus on September 6, 2004, at 19:19:47
> > how are you doing today, both physically and mentally?
>
> Hey guys, I am having an evening a little reminiscent of Friday night - but not quite as bad. I ate an early dinner at around 5:00, took my vitamins, and went on with my day. By 7:00ish, I was starting to feel urpy and generally yucky. Anyway, I took benedryl and advil (my typical response to an allergic reaction to something I ate). And I am sipping ginger tea.
>
> Here is where I need some input. Today, as on Friday, I took 3000mg evening primrose oil. I usually take 2000mg borage oil, but Friday I remembered I had this "almost gone" bottle of EPO and decided to just use it instead of the borage oil to use it up and throw away the bottle. It wasn't expired yet - I checked. And I had taken EPO up until a couple of months ago instead of the borage oil. Anyhow, could this be what made me so sick on Friday night instead of the licorice???
>
> I will let you know how the night progresses. God forbid I should have a repeat of Friday night.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Simus
Hi Simus,
Usually with supplements I think that they just lose their potency rather than really being able to do any harm. However, with something that is in oil, maybe it could become rancid? Would that give you those symptoms though? Maybe you just have to experiment. I'm inclined to think that something else is going on here. Larry will have more informed comments for you though, I'm sure.You poor thing. I feel so bad that you are having to go throught this. At least when you know what you are dealing with, you can do something. I think that the not knowing is the worst part. But hang in there. You'll figure it out soon enough I would bet.
Please let me know if you're doing any better since you posted the message above.
XXXX OOOO,
Kara
Posted by Simus on September 7, 2004, at 1:11:18
In reply to Re: Kara and Larry - help? » Simus, posted by KaraS on September 6, 2004, at 23:26:45
> > > how are you doing today, both physically and mentally?
> >
> > Hey guys, I am having an evening a little reminiscent of Friday night - but not quite as bad. I ate an early dinner at around 5:00, took my vitamins, and went on with my day. By 7:00ish, I was starting to feel urpy and generally yucky. Anyway, I took benedryl and advil (my typical response to an allergic reaction to something I ate). And I am sipping ginger tea.
> >
> > Here is where I need some input. Today, as on Friday, I took 3000mg evening primrose oil. I usually take 2000mg borage oil, but Friday I remembered I had this "almost gone" bottle of EPO and decided to just use it instead of the borage oil to use it up and throw away the bottle. It wasn't expired yet - I checked. And I had taken EPO up until a couple of months ago instead of the borage oil. Anyhow, could this be what made me so sick on Friday night instead of the licorice???
> >
> > I will let you know how the night progresses. God forbid I should have a repeat of Friday night.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Simus
>
>
> Hi Simus,
> Usually with supplements I think that they just lose their potency rather than really being able to do any harm. However, with something that is in oil, maybe it could become rancid? Would that give you those symptoms though? Maybe you just have to experiment. I'm inclined to think that something else is going on here. Larry will have more informed comments for you though, I'm sure.
>
> You poor thing. I feel so bad that you are having to go throught this. At least when you know what you are dealing with, you can do something. I think that the not knowing is the worst part. But hang in there. You'll figure it out soon enough I would bet.
>
> Please let me know if you're doing any better since you posted the message above.
>
> XXXX OOOO,
> KaraHey Kara, your message made my evening! I feel pretty good now. I did throw the EPO away. I read that it can cause nausea, vomiting and diarrhea. Worse yet, it is not advised for people prone to seizures or on a med that makes people more seizure prone (Wellbutrin is one). Even if it wasn't what made me sick, I just don't want to take a chance...
Just what I needed... I was "kicked off" the internet about an hour ago because SOMEONE ELSE had just signed on using my login and password. Ain't that something?!! I called my internet subscriber and asked them what was going on, and they told me that programs can be put on our computers without our knowledge that somehow make our screen name and password available to hackers. I guess I knew it could happen, I just never thought it would happen to me. They were actually using my ID for at least 4 days, and even sending out mail from my address. Isn't that creepy? It's like finding out someone has been walking around in your home when you were gone. It doesn't even matter if anything was touched... it's just the thought of it...
Anyway, yeah, I am doing better. But as you said before, it can sure seem like a long, long road sometimes...
How have you been doing? Have you tried anything new? How is work? If you ever need any stress relief, let me know. We can start a new game of "Where in the World is Larry Hoover?" I hear it is quite popular in Canada.
God bless,
Simus
Posted by Simus on September 7, 2004, at 1:21:09
In reply to Re: Article I sent Larry » Simus, posted by KaraS on September 6, 2004, at 18:12:04
> > > Here's the article I sent Larry and his reaction to it that I was telling you about. I think it's enough for ME to be the one invited along on his next excursion!:
> > >
> > > > http://www.pcrm.org/health/prevmed/alzheimers.html
> > >
> > > "Excellent article! I could kiss you! Oh, dear. Gabbi might not like that much.
> > >
> > > "My relational database brain really liked the way it tied different threads together. I will read this one over and over again, methinks, and springboard from it to other avenues of research. Yes!"
> > >
> > > Are you running scared yet, Simus?
> > > I think you best be planning your own vacation next year!!
> >
> > Hey! I would have sent him that article, but I sensed how he would react and I didn't want to come between him and Gabbi. I am very sensitive and considerate like that, you know.
>
> Really? How sensitive were you when you crashed their last vacation?Actually, quite sensitive. Especially after Lar threw the glass at me. That downright smarted.
> >Plus, I didn't want to appear too "show-off"y. LOL Well, you may be included on the next vacation because of your brains,
>
> I just sent it to him. I didn't say I understood it. (I only understood a small fraction of it.)
>
> > but don't count me out yet. If I can track them down to the Swiss Alps, I can track them anywhere! (Wouldn't it be funny if they really did go to the Alps??? LOL)
>
> Gabbi said that they didn't go to the Swiss Alps, remember? Honestly, you'd better hone those skills if you expect to find "us" the next time!Wait a minute! I believe what she said was that he was watching a Star Trek marathon in his mother's basement. I don't remember her saying that his mother wasn't Swiss. LOL
> > By the way, that is a very interesting article. I haven't read it all, nor do I understand it all, but it is very encouraging to me that someone in doing work in this area.
>
> Yes, I'd like to think that someday someone could fix the damage...Better yet, in our lifetimes. =)
Simus
(Sometimes we really push the envelope of the "Alternative" board, don't we? Just "Alternative" enough to scrape by... LOL)
Posted by KaraS on September 7, 2004, at 22:09:52
In reply to Re: Kara and Larry - help? » KaraS, posted by Simus on September 7, 2004, at 1:11:18
>
> Hey Kara, your message made my evening! I feel pretty good now. I did throw the EPO away. I read that it can cause nausea, vomiting and diarrhea. Worse yet, it is not advised for people prone to seizures or on a med that makes people more seizure prone (Wellbutrin is one). Even if it wasn't what made me sick, I just don't want to take a chance...That's unbelievable. I never would have suspected that about EPO. I always think of it as so harmless and I've taken it for years without any problem. You have to be careful about borage oil as well. The poorer quality ones can have contaminants. I forgot what the offending chemical involved is. Black currant oil is another alternative as well.
> Just what I needed... I was "kicked off" the internet about an hour ago because SOMEONE ELSE had just signed on using my login and password. Ain't that something?!! I called my internet subscriber and asked them what was going on, and they told me that programs can be put on our computers without our knowledge that somehow make our screen name and password available to hackers. I guess I knew it could happen, I just never thought it would happen to me. They were actually using my ID for at least 4 days, and even sending out mail from my address. Isn't that creepy? It's like finding out someone has been walking around in your home when you were gone. It doesn't even matter if anything was touched... it's just the thought of it...
>How wierd. I've had viruses or worms where they get into your computer and send out spam and viruses from your PC with your name on it. Sometimes I'd get these messages that such and such was undeliverable to some address I'd never ever send anything to. It's amazing what some hackers can do. Of course you feel robbed. It is identity theft. But to throw you off of your own computer, the nerve!!! (Like you need this now of all times.)
BTW, how are you feeling now? Is the depression gone?
> How have you been doing? Have you tried anything new? How is work? If you ever need any stress relief, let me know. We can start a new game of "Where in the World is Larry Hoover?" I hear it is quite popular in Canada.The job today was really fast-paced and stressful and disorganized. They said that when I'm there in the evenings it won't be as crazy. Hopefully, that's true.
I think Larry is bored with us here on the Alternative Board. He's on the main board a lot more now. Also, he's been very involved on the administrative board arguing against some of the recent blocks. I hope he doesn't get himself blocked because of it.
Take care,
Kara
>
> God bless,
>
> Simus
Posted by KaraS on September 7, 2004, at 23:50:02
In reply to Re: Article I sent Larry » KaraS, posted by Simus on September 7, 2004, at 1:21:09
Have you had a chance to talk to your doctor about your thyroid test results? My neighbor just had the same kind of results. She went off of her thyroid medication that she's been taking for years because she was feeling hyperthyroid type symptoms. She's been off of her Armour thyroid for about 4 months now and has been feeling fine - lots of energy, concentration is good and she is warm all of the time. She just got tested and got the results today. Her T4 and T3 levels were fine but her TSH was over 21! Her situation is similar to yours. She hasn't spoken to her endocrinologist yet about it. I'd be very interested in his or her interpretation of those results. I'll let you know when she gets that feedback. Let me know when you get same.
Take care,
Kara
Posted by simus on September 8, 2004, at 0:02:05
In reply to Re: Kara and Larry - help? » Simus, posted by KaraS on September 7, 2004, at 22:09:52
> > Hey Kara, your message made my evening! I feel pretty good now. I did throw the EPO away. I read that it can cause nausea, vomiting and diarrhea. Worse yet, it is not advised for people prone to seizures or on a med that makes people more seizure prone (Wellbutrin is one). Even if it wasn't what made me sick, I just don't want to take a chance...
>
> That's unbelievable. I never would have suspected that about EPO. I always think of it as so harmless and I've taken it for years without any problem. You have to be careful about borage oil as well. The poorer quality ones can have contaminants. I forgot what the offending chemical involved is. Black currant oil is another alternative as well.Hmmmm... I had better read up on the borage oil before I start taking it again...
> > Just what I needed... I was "kicked off" the internet about an hour ago because SOMEONE ELSE had just signed on using my login and password. Ain't that something?!! I called my internet subscriber and asked them what was going on, and they told me that programs can be put on our computers without our knowledge that somehow make our screen name and password available to hackers. I guess I knew it could happen, I just never thought it would happen to me. They were actually using my ID for at least 4 days, and even sending out mail from my address. Isn't that creepy? It's like finding out someone has been walking around in your home when you were gone. It doesn't even matter if anything was touched... it's just the thought of it...
> >
>
> How wierd. I've had viruses or worms where they get into your computer and send out spam and viruses from your PC with your name on it. Sometimes I'd get these messages that such and such was undeliverable to some address I'd never ever send anything to. It's amazing what some hackers can do. Of course you feel robbed. It is identity theft. But to throw you off of your own computer, the nerve!!! (Like you need this now of all times.)Uhhh... Kara??? Strange mail was being sent from my e-mail address starting about a week ago (showed up in "sent" category). That was my FIRST tip that something was going on. That isn't from viruses or worms, but from spyware that has been installed on your computer via the internet. You don't even have to download something to get it - just sometimes click on something and "voile!". Someone actually has your address and password, and heaven only knows what else, thanks to the wonderful world of spywear, and is sending mail from address. I just learned about all of this from my daughter's computer geek boyfriend (I really adore him though). He came over tonight and ran a new virus scan and spywear detector. WOW!!! What a mess I had! My computer was so messed up that he won't let me use it to get on the internet. Well, he cleaned out all of the viruses, but the spywear (or possibly a virus) had somehow corrupted a file and he couldn't remove the spywear because of it. But he did clean out all of the viruses (and spywear) from the kid's machine, so at least I have some access to the internet.
> BTW, how are you feeling now? Is the depression gone?
I am doing much better today, thanks. Well, aside from messing with the computer stuff and fretting over that. Thank God for daughters' geeky boyfriends!!! =) He is only 17, but he brilliant. He is about to start school for electrical engineering. (I hope he remembers "Mom" when he becomes rich and famous! LOL)
> > How have you been doing? Have you tried anything new? How is work? If you ever need any stress relief, let me know. We can start a new game of "Where in the World is Larry Hoover?" I hear it is quite popular in Canada.
>
> The job today was really fast-paced and stressful and disorganized. They said that when I'm there in the evenings it won't be as crazy. Hopefully, that's true.Ooooohhhhh... Nightshift! Right up my alley! I am virtually to the point of not fighting the insomnia anymore and just letting it work in my favor.
> I think Larry is bored with us here on the Alternative Board. He's on the main board a lot more now. Also, he's been very involved on the administrative board arguing against some of the recent blocks. I hope he doesn't get himself blocked because of it.
He seemed pretty stressed once when he posted... I REALLY hope he doesn't get blocked too. He is such a blessing.
God bless,
Simus
(P.S. Get that computer thingie looked into when you can.)
Posted by simus on September 8, 2004, at 0:28:54
In reply to Re: Question for Simus » Simus, posted by KaraS on September 7, 2004, at 23:50:02
> Have you had a chance to talk to your doctor about your thyroid test results? My neighbor just had the same kind of results. She went off of her thyroid medication that she's been taking for years because she was feeling hyperthyroid type symptoms. She's been off of her Armour thyroid for about 4 months now and has been feeling fine - lots of energy, concentration is good and she is warm all of the time. She just got tested and got the results today. Her T4 and T3 levels were fine but her TSH was over 21! Her situation is similar to yours. She hasn't spoken to her endocrinologist yet about it. I'd be very interested in his or her interpretation of those results. I'll let you know when she gets that feedback. Let me know when you get same.
>
> Take care,
> KaraKara,
I have done some research on it, and only one thing is clear now. NO ONE seems to completely understand much about the whole endocrine thing. It is like "brain chemical" issues. Unfortunately, the people who seem like they should have the most answers, the endocrinologists, seem to be the least "in the know".
I guess instead of repeating a lot of really valuable information I have found, I would like to direct you to the message board that TeaLady recommended to me here on PBA. (She posted the site for me a few days ago.) On that message board, look for my name (Simus), and read the posts. A couple of sites mentioned in the last post (?) are wonderful. VERY interesting...
I wish her all the best. I am going to get more testing done, but until I am sure I need the hormones, I am going to avoid them.
Take care,
Simus
Posted by Larry Hoover on September 9, 2004, at 10:42:02
In reply to Kara and Larry - help?, posted by Simus on September 6, 2004, at 19:19:47
> Here is where I need some input. Today, as on Friday, I took 3000mg evening primrose oil. I usually take 2000mg borage oil, but Friday I remembered I had this "almost gone" bottle of EPO and decided to just use it instead of the borage oil to use it up and throw away the bottle. It wasn't expired yet - I checked. And I had taken EPO up until a couple of months ago instead of the borage oil. Anyhow, could this be what made me so sick on Friday night instead of the licorice???
>
> I will let you know how the night progresses. God forbid I should have a repeat of Friday night.
>
> Thanks,
>
> SimusIf the oil had gone rancid, it could easily cause immense stomach problems. Your body senses the rancidity as a measure of food spoilage, and tries to protect you from the potential of contaminated intake. Expiry dates are not an infallible measure of safety, as polyunsaturated fatty acids are perishable. There are things that could have happened to the oil that you could not ever assess, long before you bought it. For example, your particular batch of oil might have been loaded onto a truck on a Friday afternoon, and left sitting out in the hot sun all weekend. You just can't know that sort of thing. If in doubt, throw it out.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on September 9, 2004, at 10:44:51
In reply to Re: Kara and Larry - help? » KaraS, posted by Simus on September 7, 2004, at 1:11:18
> Just what I needed... I was "kicked off" the internet about an hour ago because SOMEONE ELSE had just signed on using my login and password. Ain't that something?!! I called my internet subscriber and asked them what was going on, and they told me that programs can be put on our computers without our knowledge that somehow make our screen name and password available to hackers. I guess I knew it could happen, I just never thought it would happen to me. They were actually using my ID for at least 4 days, and even sending out mail from my address. Isn't that creepy? It's like finding out someone has been walking around in your home when you were gone. It doesn't even matter if anything was touched... it's just the thought of it...
Those hijack programs can do much more harm than that. There is a free and easy to use program to solve this problem. Ad-aware, by lavasoft.
http://www.lavasoftusa.com/software/adaware/
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on September 9, 2004, at 10:49:30
In reply to Re: Kara and Larry - help? » Simus, posted by KaraS on September 7, 2004, at 22:09:52
> I think Larry is bored with us here on the Alternative Board.
No, actually. This Solost, I mean, Zoloft that I'm taking messes with my thinking. Some days I just can't re-immerse myself into these complex threads. And I make some really stupid mistakes, ones I could not reasonably expect myself to make. It's quite frustrating.
> He's on the main board a lot more now.
Covering for chemist, a bit, and trying to provide accurate information.
> Also, he's been very involved on the administrative board arguing against some of the recent blocks.
I'm passionate about fairness.
> I hope he doesn't get himself blocked because of it.
I've learned from my past experiences, though I'm sure I come close to the edge, now and again.
Lar
Posted by KaraS on September 9, 2004, at 17:08:26
In reply to Re: Kara and Larry - help? » KaraS, posted by Larry Hoover on September 9, 2004, at 10:49:30
> > I think Larry is bored with us here on the Alternative Board.
>
> No, actually. This Solost, I mean, Zoloft that I'm taking messes with my thinking. Some days I just can't re-immerse myself into these complex threads. And I make some really stupid mistakes, ones I could not reasonably expect myself to make. It's quite frustrating.Sorry to hear that. I guess even Hoover, Larry Hoover, has his share of brain fog. I was solost on Zoloft too.
> > He's on the main board a lot more now.
>
> Covering for chemist, a bit, and trying to provide accurate information.It can't be easy being Larry Hoover, large scientist (oops, I meant scientist at large).
> > Also, he's been very involved on the administrative board arguing against some of the recent blocks.
>
> I'm passionate about fairness.Yes, I know. That's a good thing.
> > I hope he doesn't get himself blocked because of it.
>
> I've learned from my past experiences, though I'm sure I come close to the edge, now and again.
>
> LarGood. Take care of yourself. You've been missed.
-K
Posted by simus on September 9, 2004, at 21:46:39
In reply to Re: Kara and Larry - help? » KaraS, posted by Larry Hoover on September 9, 2004, at 10:49:30
> This Solost, I mean, Zoloft that I'm taking messes with my thinking. Some days I just can't re-immerse myself into these complex threads. And I make some really stupid mistakes, ones I could not reasonably expect myself to make. It's quite frustrating.
Solost... hehehe... Yeah, I know what you mean. As far as any mistakes, you can rest assured that I wouldn't catch them! Good to see you back.
Simus
P.S. Thanks for the answer on the EPO too.
Posted by KaraS on September 11, 2004, at 4:14:33
In reply to Re: Question for Simus » KaraS, posted by simus on September 8, 2004, at 0:28:54
> > Have you had a chance to talk to your doctor about your thyroid test results? My neighbor just had the same kind of results. She went off of her thyroid medication that she's been taking for years because she was feeling hyperthyroid type symptoms. She's been off of her Armour thyroid for about 4 months now and has been feeling fine - lots of energy, concentration is good and she is warm all of the time. She just got tested and got the results today. Her T4 and T3 levels were fine but her TSH was over 21! Her situation is similar to yours. She hasn't spoken to her endocrinologist yet about it. I'd be very interested in his or her interpretation of those results. I'll let you know when she gets that feedback. Let me know when you get same.
> >
> > Take care,
> > Kara
>
> Kara,
>
> I have done some research on it, and only one thing is clear now. NO ONE seems to completely understand much about the whole endocrine thing. It is like "brain chemical" issues. Unfortunately, the people who seem like they should have the most answers, the endocrinologists, seem to be the least "in the know".
>
> I guess instead of repeating a lot of really valuable information I have found, I would like to direct you to the message board that TeaLady recommended to me here on PBA. (She posted the site for me a few days ago.) On that message board, look for my name (Simus), and read the posts. A couple of sites mentioned in the last post (?) are wonderful. VERY interesting...
>
> I wish her all the best. I am going to get more testing done, but until I am sure I need the hormones, I am going to avoid them.
>
> Take care,
>
> Simus
I haven't had the energy to follow up on your research but I think you're being wise to investigate further. There's obviously more to it all than TSH levels. My friend has so much energy and she's been going to school and doing well so she's able to focus and she's still too hot most of the time when I'm cold (even though her TSH was over 21). When she told her doctor that she was going to go off of her medication, her doctor told her that she shouldn't do it, that she would feel terrible and not be able to function. She hasn't spoken to her doctor yet since she got her test scores. I think you're right that there's just too much they don't know yet. I'm curious to see what her doctor has to say about the fact that my friend feels fine.How are you doing? Are you feeling ok now?
Posted by Larry Hoover on September 11, 2004, at 13:02:29
In reply to Re: Kara and Larry - help? » Larry Hoover, posted by KaraS on September 9, 2004, at 17:08:26
> > > I think Larry is bored with us here on the Alternative Board.
> >
> > No, actually. This Solost, I mean, Zoloft that I'm taking messes with my thinking. Some days I just can't re-immerse myself into these complex threads. And I make some really stupid mistakes, ones I could not reasonably expect myself to make. It's quite frustrating.
>
> Sorry to hear that. I guess even Hoover, Larry Hoover, has his share of brain fog. I was solost on Zoloft too.I have very nearly sworn off it, more than once, but I keep forgetting to follow through.
> > > He's on the main board a lot more now.
> >
> > Covering for chemist, a bit, and trying to provide accurate information.
>
> It can't be easy being Larry Hoover, large scientist (oops, I meant scientist at large).Ahhh, but then there is my alter-ego, Harry Loover. He's much more fun.
Lar
Posted by KaraS on September 11, 2004, at 20:53:11
In reply to Re: Kara and Larry - help? » KaraS, posted by Larry Hoover on September 11, 2004, at 13:02:29
> > > > I think Larry is bored with us here on the Alternative Board.
> > >
> > > No, actually. This Solost, I mean, Zoloft that I'm taking messes with my thinking. Some days I just can't re-immerse myself into these complex threads. And I make some really stupid mistakes, ones I could not reasonably expect myself to make. It's quite frustrating.
> >
> > Sorry to hear that. I guess even Hoover, Larry Hoover, has his share of brain fog. I was solost on Zoloft too.
>
> I have very nearly sworn off it, more than once, but I keep forgetting to follow through.
Zoloft is doing nothing for you, in fact it may be making you worse and you forget to stop taking it?????? You really are the absent-minded professor, aren't you? Should I be telling Gabbi to hound you on this one?> > > > He's on the main board a lot more now.
> > >
> > > Covering for chemist, a bit, and trying to provide accurate information.
> >
> > It can't be easy being Larry Hoover, large scientist (oops, I meant scientist at large).
>
> Ahhh, but then there is my alter-ego, Harry Loover. He's much more fun.
>
> Lar
That's ok. I have enough just dealing with Larry Hoover!-K
Posted by Simus on September 12, 2004, at 1:36:58
In reply to Re: Question for Simus » simus, posted by KaraS on September 11, 2004, at 4:14:33
> I haven't had the energy to follow up on your research but I think you're being wise to investigate further. There's obviously more to it all than TSH levels. My friend has so much energy and she's been going to school and doing well so she's able to focus and she's still too hot most of the time when I'm cold (even though her TSH was over 21). When she told her doctor that she was going to go off of her medication, her doctor told her that she shouldn't do it, that she would feel terrible and not be able to function. She hasn't spoken to her doctor yet since she got her test scores. I think you're right that there's just too much they don't know yet. I'm curious to see what her doctor has to say about the fact that my friend feels fine.
>
> How are you doing? Are you feeling ok now?Kara,
I'm OK. Thanks for asking. Every so often I seem to go into an "information overload" phase, which is where I find myself now. Too much info... Do this, don't do that... Don't do this, do that... Don't do either... Do both... It will pass though. It always does. I think I just need to "reboot". LOL
How have you been? How is work? Seen anyone famous lately???
We had our church directory pictures taken today. It really is like reading "Flowers for Algernon" to see from directory to directory how much I have gone downhill over the past 15 years. Not the most uplifting day... But, who knows? Maybe things will turn around soon...
Anyhow, take care. And keep Lar on his toes. Say something profound and give him "Spock eyebrows" again. LOL
Simus
Posted by KaraS on September 12, 2004, at 4:29:57
In reply to Re: Question for Simus » KaraS, posted by Simus on September 12, 2004, at 1:36:58
> Kara,
>
> I'm OK. Thanks for asking. Every so often I seem to go into an "information overload" phase, which is where I find myself now. Too much info... Do this, don't do that... Don't do this, do that... Don't do either... Do both... It will pass though. It always does. I think I just need to "reboot". LOL
>
> How have you been? How is work? Seen anyone famous lately???
>
> We had our church directory pictures taken today. It really is like reading "Flowers for Algernon" to see from directory to directory how much I have gone downhill over the past 15 years. Not the most uplifting day... But, who knows? Maybe things will turn around soon...
>
> Anyhow, take care. And keep Lar on his toes. Say something profound and give him "Spock eyebrows" again. LOL
>
> Simus
Hi Simus,I know what you mean about information overload. It's hard enough to fully understand everything you read and then to realize that so much of the information is contradictory really is overwhelming. If the doctors and scientists who study these things can't agree on what to do, how are we supposed to figure it all out? All we can do is our best I guess (and hound Larry some more, of course).
Do you get church pictures taken every year and you were looking at your picture every year over that time span? Is that what you were talking about in your previous message? We all age unfortunately (everyone other than Dick Clark that is). Just think how much wiser you are than you were 15 years ago? (I know that doesn't work much for me either but I thought it was worth a try...)
I'm not great either. That job is awful and I think that they might can me anyway. The people are nice but it's just a dirty and gross environment and they're not explaining things well (partly because it's so busy and crazy there). My insomnia lately and the awful brain fog are making it more difficult. I know that if I get myself out there I can do a lot better than this job but I was happy about this one because the evening hours would allow me time to interview during the day. What worries me is that my brain won't be up for any of the jobs and that once I get them, I won't be able to hold them. I started panicking about it a bit yesterday and today. The panic is good in some ways because at least it may get me moving to interview.
Do you have some days where you wake up feeling relatively normal and others where you wake up feeling so drugged and brain-fogged even though you haven't taken anything that could do this to you? I think it usually happens when I get a good long night's sleep after not sleeping well for at least a couple of days. I have been so groggy all day and I can't concentrate on these darn spreadsheets I need to work on. I wish I understood why this happens so that I could prevent it in the future. It's probably related to adrenal fatigue, don't you think? It's so frustrating. How am I supposed to function like this?
I'm thinking seriously of trying Cymbalta. I've been following the other people who are taking it on the main board and overall the reports seem to be quite good. Maybe that will at least get me to being semi-functional. Do you think that the Wellbutrin has helped you think clearly? I keep meaning to try the ginkgo but I just hate trying these different things and dealing with all of the side effects. I know you understand. Have you had the nerve to try the licorice again?
Well sorry to blabber on here and not have much humor involved. I'm sure I'll be better company once I get these spreadsheets finished and I have some closure one way or another on that horrible job.
Kara
Posted by Simus on September 12, 2004, at 15:00:15
In reply to Re: Question for Simus » Simus, posted by KaraS on September 12, 2004, at 4:29:57
> > Kara,
> >
> > I'm OK. Thanks for asking. Every so often I seem to go into an "information overload" phase, which is where I find myself now. Too much info... Do this, don't do that... Don't do this, do that... Don't do either... Do both... It will pass though. It always does. I think I just need to "reboot". LOL
> >
> > How have you been? How is work? Seen anyone famous lately???
> >
> > We had our church directory pictures taken today. It really is like reading "Flowers for Algernon" to see from directory to directory how much I have gone downhill over the past 15 years. Not the most uplifting day... But, who knows? Maybe things will turn around soon...
> >
> > Anyhow, take care. And keep Lar on his toes. Say something profound and give him "Spock eyebrows" again. LOL
> >
> > Simus
>
>
> Hi Simus,
>
> I know what you mean about information overload. It's hard enough to fully understand everything you read and then to realize that so much of the information is contradictory really is overwhelming. If the doctors and scientists who study these things can't agree on what to do, how are we supposed to figure it all out? All we can do is our best I guess (and hound Larry some more, of course).Kara,
One discouragement I have been dealing with lately is the fact that if ANY of the doctors had listened to me 10 years ago and had done ANY endocrine testing I asked for AT ALL, I wouldn't have had to go through the he** of 9 years on unneeded and unhelpful SSRIs and all the complications and life disruptions they have caused. My family doc wouldn't, nor would the p-doc. I even went on my own money to a nationally known Ohio "Clinic". I wanted to go to their endo department. They sent me to the psych department and told me that the psych dept would refer me to endo if they saw the need. The "student" took a look at my info, said,
"You were properly diagnosed, and you are on the right meds.", and sent me home. If I had only known then what I know now... Looking back, I was slender at the time, so they probably wouldn't have considered thyroid problems. But I was slender because of my obsessive dieting and exercise to control a life-long tendency toward "chubbiness". I probably not only masked the "symptom" of weight weight gain associated with thyroid problems, but also burned out my adrenals. Anyway, now I have to undo both the damage of 10 years of psych drugs and untreated endo problem (which I still have to pinpoint the exact cause of). Well, enough whining...
>
> Do you get church pictures taken every year and you were looking at your picture every year over that time span? Is that what you were talking about in your previous message? We all age unfortunately (everyone other than Dick Clark that is). Just think how much wiser you are than you were 15 years ago? (I know that doesn't work much for me either but I thought it was worth a try...)The directory is redone every 4 years, and there were dramatic changes between every picture. I gained considerable weight and I am clearly "unhealthier" from directory to directory. I hate having my picture taken, ESPECIALLY when I know it is going to be "published".
>
> I'm not great either. That job is awful and I think that they might can me anyway. The people are nice but it's just a dirty and gross environment and they're not explaining things well (partly because it's so busy and crazy there). My insomnia lately and the awful brain fog are making it more difficult.I understand, and my heart goes out to you. Brain fog is awful, and insomnia has a way with messing with every part of our lives. And people just don't seem to understand either one. It's hard enough to keep going in a job you love, not to mention a job you can't stand.
> I know that if I get myself out there I can do a lot better than this job but I was happy about this one because the evening hours would allow me time to interview during the day. What worries me is that my brain won't be up for any of the jobs and that once I get them, I won't be able to hold them. I started panicking about it a bit yesterday and today. The panic is good in some ways because at least it may get me moving to interview.
This is exactly where I am right now. The tears started welling up when I read that. I understand so well. I don't want to let another employer down because of my health taking another turn for the worse. I don't know if I could do it one more time...
> Do you have some days where you wake up feeling relatively normal and others where you wake up feeling so drugged and brain-fogged even though you haven't taken anything that could do this to you? I think it usually happens when I get a good long night's sleep after not sleeping well for at least a couple of days. I have been so groggy all day and I can't concentrate on these darn spreadsheets I need to work on. I wish I understood why this happens so that I could prevent it in the future. It's probably related to adrenal fatigue, don't you think? It's so frustrating. How am I supposed to function like this?
Yes, I know exactly what you mean about good/days bad days and trying to figure out what causes each. It very well could be adrenal fatigue. When I "stretch" myself by working harder and sleeping less, I feel really good... for about two or three days. Then I crash, and it takes a couple of days to recover. One thing that does help me during the "down" times (I may have mentioned this before) is green/ginseng/ginger tea. I put one bag of each in a big cup of boiling water and let them sit for several minutes. If you can stand the taste, it may help. I used to hate all teas, and expecially herbals. But when I finally found something to help the "fog" even a little, taste becames less important.
> I'm thinking seriously of trying Cymbalta. I've been following the other people who are taking it on the main board and overall the reports seem to be quite good. Maybe that will at least get me to being semi-functional.
That's a new one to me. What is it???
> Do you think that the Wellbutrin has helped you think clearly?
Oh, absolutely. But maybe it wasn't as much the Wellbutrin as finally getting off of the SSRIs.
> I keep meaning to try the ginkgo but I just hate trying these different things and dealing with all of the side effects. I know you understand. Have you had the nerve to try the licorice again?
I HATE taking a new ANYTHING. I am going to go to the health food store and get ginkgo tea and licorice tea. It isn't as strong as a pill, but I can "sip" a little and wait to see how I react to each, and work my way up. That is how I got into ginseng and ginger.
> Well sorry to blabber on here and not have much humor involved. I'm sure I'll be better company once I get these spreadsheets finished and I have some closure one way or another on that horrible job.
>
> KaraPlease write about anything you are going through. It always helps me too because more often than not I am going through the same thing. I may not have an answer, but it sure helps to know we aren't alone in this battle.
God bless,
Simus
Posted by KaraS on September 12, 2004, at 17:38:08
In reply to Re: Question for Simus » KaraS, posted by Simus on September 12, 2004, at 15:00:15
> One discouragement I have been dealing with lately is the fact that if ANY of the doctors had listened to me 10 years ago and had done ANY endocrine testing I asked for AT ALL, I wouldn't have had to go through the he** of 9 years on unneeded and unhelpful SSRIs and all the complications and life disruptions they have caused. My family doc wouldn't, nor would the p-doc. I even went on my own money to a nationally known Ohio "Clinic". I wanted to go to their endo department. They sent me to the psych department and told me that the psych dept would refer me to endo if they saw the need. The "student" took a look at my info, said,
> "You were properly diagnosed, and you are on the right meds.", and sent me home. If I had only known then what I know now... Looking back, I was slender at the time, so they probably wouldn't have considered thyroid problems. But I was slender because of my obsessive dieting and exercise to control a life-long tendency toward "chubbiness". I probably not only masked the "symptom" of weight weight gain associated with thyroid problems, but also burned out my adrenals. Anyway, now I have to undo both the damage of 10 years of psych drugs and untreated endo problem (which I still have to pinpoint the exact cause of). Well, enough whining...
Dear friend,I can certainly see why you're so mad! So often with women, our complaints are passed off as just depression. That's unbelievable that you spent your own money only to get the same results. Did you ever send any of these doctors letters telling them how wrong they were and how much better you're doing now that you've been adequately diagnosed and taken off of those darn SSRIs?
Unfortunately, years ago, the SSRIs were given to everyone for depression and they were really only the answer for a small subset of depressives who needed more serotonin. The rest of us got made worse by them. I have also wasted many years on them. Maybe they could have helped had they been combined with other kinds of medications or supplements but just on their own, they stifled any motivation I may have had (not to mention what they did to you!) Also unfortunately, there are still doctors out there giving out the SSRIs to everyone who walks into their offices even though that person's symptoms don't really warrant their use. As we keep saying, you have to be your own doctor. But what do we do if they won't honor our requests or give us the tests we need?????
> > Do you get church pictures taken every year and you were looking at your picture every year over that time span? Is that what you were talking about in your previous message? We all age unfortunately (everyone other than Dick Clark that is). Just think how much wiser you are than you were 15 years ago? (I know that doesn't work much for me either but I thought it was worth a try...)
>
> The directory is redone every 4 years, and there were dramatic changes between every picture. I gained considerable weight and I am clearly "unhealthier" from directory to directory. I hate having my picture taken, ESPECIALLY when I know it is going to be "published".
As for the pictures, I believe that you will finally get your system under control. You're on the right path now. Then you will lose weight. I was overweight for many years and never thought I'd be thin again. About a year ago I took off a lot of weight and have so far maintained it. That can happen to you too. Then your next directory picture will make you happy again and you'll finally and visually see all the progress you've been making.
> > I'm not great either. That job is awful and I think that they might can me anyway. The people are nice but it's just a dirty and gross environment and they're not explaining things well (partly because it's so busy and crazy there). My insomnia lately and the awful brain fog are making it more difficult.
>
> I understand, and my heart goes out to you. Brain fog is awful, and insomnia has a way with messing with every part of our lives. And people just don't seem to understand either one. It's hard enough to keep going in a job you love, not to mention a job you can't stand.How true! Also, in a job you've been at for awhile, you can get away with some brain fog now and then but if you're being trained and they're watching your every move to see if you've gotten it and you're in a grogged out state, you can't get away with it.
> > I know that if I get myself out there I can do a lot better than this job but I was happy about this one because the evening hours would allow me time to interview during the day. What worries me is that my brain won't be up for any of the jobs and that once I get them, I won't be able to hold them. I started panicking about it a bit yesterday and today. The panic is good in some ways because at least it may get me moving to interview.
>
> This is exactly where I am right now. The tears started welling up when I read that. I understand so well. I don't want to let another employer down because of my health taking another turn for the worse. I don't know if I could do it one more time...I'm more worried about me than letting the employers down. They've never been all that concerned about me in the corporate world. The rejection is just horrible and my stomach is in knots now just worrying about this stupid job because of the ego thing and because of the implications for future jobs. (Sorry to make you tear up.)
The good days vs. bad days, do you also feel exhausted and malaise throughout your body - not just the brain fog on the bad days? When I'm in that kind of fog, it doesn't feel like anything can penetrate it. It's so scary. There's the usual brain fog of depression but then there's the complete brain fog of those days after I've finally gotten a good night's sleep after not sleeping well for at least a couple of nights.
I slept 8 hours the other night and woke up feeling so out of it. I could understand if I had slept for 12 or 16 hours straight but it was only 8! I wonder if MAOIs would help with this at all.I'm definitely going to have to try the teas. I have green tea here already and some Siberian ginseng in capsules. I think I've mentioned that the S. Gingseng gives me a strange feeling like electricity is going through my body but I can tolerate it in smaller doses. Also, I'll have to try it when not on Effexor and try a different brand. Why the ginger? I really hate the taste of that one although green tea is really bad too.
> > I'm thinking seriously of trying Cymbalta. I've been following the other people who are taking it on the main board and overall the reports seem to be quite good. Maybe that will at least get me to being semi-functional.
>
> That's a new one to me. What is it???It's a new medication that just came out. Hasn't even been out a month yet. There are some people on the main board who are trying it and they post journals everyday on their progress and a lot of us are following their results. It's like Effexor in that it is an SNRI but it's a more balanced SNRI. Effexor is mostly serotonergic until you get to the higher dosages and even then it's skewed to serotonin. Cymbalta is more evenly noradrenergic from the start. It's supposed to work faster than other ADs but the new ones always say that, don't they? I remember the same hype about Effexor which never panned out. Anyway, so far 3 out of 4 people seem to be seeing results and the fourth one is very treatment resistant (but then so am I).
> > Do you think that the Wellbutrin has helped you think clearly?
>
> Oh, absolutely. But maybe it wasn't as much the Wellbutrin as finally getting off of the SSRIs.
>
> > I keep meaning to try the ginkgo but I just hate trying these different things and dealing with all of the side effects. I know you understand. Have you had the nerve to try the licorice again?
>
> I HATE taking a new ANYTHING. I am going to go to the health food store and get ginkgo tea and licorice tea. It isn't as strong as a pill, but I can "sip" a little and wait to see how I react to each, and work my way up. That is how I got into ginseng and ginger.You could also try the tinctures. Then you could put drops into your drinks (tea or juice or a smoothy) and it could still give you that control but might make the taste better. The tinctures tend to stay fresh a long time too because their is a bit of alcohol in them.
> Please write about anything you are going through. It always helps me too because more often than not I am going through the same thing. I may not have an answer, but it sure helps to know we aren't alone in this battle.
>
> God bless,
>
> SimusThank you. It really does help to know that someone else understands, is listening and cares.
God bless you too.
Kara
Posted by Simus on September 12, 2004, at 23:49:55
In reply to Re: Question for Simus » Simus, posted by KaraS on September 12, 2004, at 17:38:08
> Did you ever send any of these doctors letters telling them how wrong they were and how much better you're doing now that you've been adequately diagnosed and taken off of those darn SSRIs?
No. Well, my family doc is the same man who originally prescribed the SSRIs (oh, did I mention that I was soon thereafter suicidal as a result of side effects so he sent me to a Pdoc?), and he has seen me continually get worse and worse until the Wellbutrin turnaround (which surprised him). My Pdoc is the same man I had years ago, and he is also very surprised that I am doing so well on the Wellbutrin alone. And I no longer have a great respect for the teaching hospitals.
> Unfortunately, years ago, the SSRIs were given to everyone for depression and they were really only the answer for a small subset of depressives who needed more serotonin. The rest of us got made worse by them.
Yeah..
> I have also wasted many years on them. Maybe they could have helped had they been combined with other kinds of medications or supplements but just on their own, they stifled any motivation I may have had (not to mention what they did to you!) Also unfortunately, there are still doctors out there giving out the SSRIs to everyone who walks into their offices even though that person's symptoms don't really warrant their use. As we keep saying, you have to be your own doctor. But what do we do if they won't honor our requests or give us the tests we need?????
That's why we have alternative doctors. =)
> > > Do you get church pictures taken every year and you were looking at your picture every year over that time span? Is that what you were talking about in your previous message? We all age unfortunately (everyone other than Dick Clark that is). Just think how much wiser you are than you were 15 years ago? (I know that doesn't work much for me either but I thought it was worth a try...)
> >
> > The directory is redone every 4 years, and there were dramatic changes between every picture. I gained considerable weight and I am clearly "unhealthier" from directory to directory. I hate having my picture taken, ESPECIALLY when I know it is going to be "published".
>
> As for the pictures, I believe that you will finally get your system under control. You're on the right path now. Then you will lose weight. I was overweight for many years and never thought I'd be thin again. About a year ago I took off a lot of weight and have so far maintained it. That can happen to you too. Then your next directory picture will make you happy again and you'll finally and visually see all the progress you've been making.{{{smiles}}} You always seem to know just what to say...
> > > I know that if I get myself out there I can do a lot better than this job but I was happy about this one because the evening hours would allow me time to interview during the day. What worries me is that my brain won't be up for any of the jobs and that once I get them, I won't be able to hold them. I started panicking about it a bit yesterday and today. The panic is good in some ways because at least it may get me moving to interview.
> >
> > This is exactly where I am right now. The tears started welling up when I read that. I understand so well. I don't want to let another employer down because of my health taking another turn for the worse. I don't know if I could do it one more time...
>
> I'm more worried about me than letting the employers down. They've never been all that concerned about me in the corporate world. The rejection is just horrible and my stomach is in knots now just worrying about this stupid job because of the ego thing and because of the implications for future jobs. (Sorry to make you tear up.)Implication for future jobs... That's exactly it.
> The good days vs. bad days, do you also feel exhausted and malaise throughout your body - not just the brain fog on the bad days?
I used to feel that, where everything used to be a major effort. But I am much better in that area now. But I am still not where I should be. I really don't even have depression (aside from the occasional fever) anymore.
> When I'm in that kind of fog, it doesn't feel like anything can penetrate it. It's so scary. There's the usual brain fog of depression but then there's the complete brain fog of those days after I've finally gotten a good night's sleep after not sleeping well for at least a couple of nights.
The SSRIs had a bad brain fog effect on me. The other brain fog doesn't bother me as much because it isn't as debilitating or as seemingly permanent.
> I slept 8 hours the other night and woke up feeling so out of it. I could understand if I had slept for 12 or 16 hours straight but it was only 8! I wonder if MAOIs would help with this at all.
Oh, I don't know... I would carefully consider that first...
> I'm definitely going to have to try the teas. I have green tea here already and some Siberian ginseng in capsules. I think I've mentioned that the S. Gingseng gives me a strange feeling like electricity is going through my body but I can tolerate it in smaller doses.Hmmmm... Maybe you shouldn't do the ginseng.
> Also, I'll have to try it when not on Effexor and try a different brand. Why the ginger? I really hate the taste of that one although green tea is really bad too.
It was just one of those things in my studies that I found was supposed to be good for so many things, so I tried it and liked it. I think it is mentioned in the adrenal fatigue book...
> > > I'm thinking seriously of trying Cymbalta. I've been following the other people who are taking it on the main board and overall the reports seem to be quite good. Maybe that will at least get me to being semi-functional.
> >
> > That's a new one to me. What is it???
>
> It's a new medication that just came out. Hasn't even been out a month yet. There are some people on the main board who are trying it and they post journals everyday on their progress and a lot of us are following their results. It's like Effexor in that it is an SNRI but it's a more balanced SNRI. Effexor is mostly serotonergic until you get to the higher dosages and even then it's skewed to serotonin. Cymbalta is more evenly noradrenergic from the start. It's supposed to work faster than other ADs but the new ones always say that, don't they? I remember the same hype about Effexor which never panned out. Anyway, so far 3 out of 4 people seem to be seeing results and the fourth one is very treatment resistant (but then so am I).It may just work for you. I did pretty well on Effexor for 3-4 years (overlooking chronic hives). But getting off of it was a little harder than a SSRI.
> > > I keep meaning to try the ginkgo but I just hate trying these different things and dealing with all of the side effects. I know you understand. Have you had the nerve to try the licorice again?
> >
> > I HATE taking a new ANYTHING. I am going to go to the health food store and get ginkgo tea and licorice tea. It isn't as strong as a pill, but I can "sip" a little and wait to see how I react to each, and work my way up. That is how I got into ginseng and ginger.
>
> You could also try the tinctures. Then you could put drops into your drinks (tea or juice or a smoothy) and it could still give you that control but might make the taste better. The tinctures tend to stay fresh a long time too because their is a bit of alcohol in them.I like the tincture idea. Isn't Ouzo flavored with licorice??? LOL
God bless,
Simus
Posted by karaS on September 13, 2004, at 2:15:03
In reply to Re: Question for Simus » KaraS, posted by Simus on September 12, 2004, at 23:49:55
> > Did you ever send any of these doctors letters telling them how wrong they were and how much better you're doing now that you've been adequately diagnosed and taken off of those darn SSRIs?
>
> No. Well, my family doc is the same man who originally prescribed the SSRIs (oh, did I mention that I was soon thereafter suicidal as a result of side effects so he sent me to a Pdoc?),You'd think that would be his first clue that the medication wasn't for you!
and he has seen me continually get worse and worse until the Wellbutrin turnaround (which surprised him). My Pdoc is the same man I had years ago, and he is also very surprised that I am doing so well on the Wellbutrin alone.
I'm glad that at least your gp doctor got to see that he was wrong. That must have felt good at least.
>And I no longer have a great respect for the teaching hospitals.
I no longer have respect for any of the hospitals!
> > Unfortunately, years ago, the SSRIs were given to everyone for depression and they were really only the answer for a small subset of depressives who needed more serotonin. The rest of us got made worse by them.
>
> Yeah..
>
> > > The directory is redone every 4 years, and there were dramatic changes between every picture. I gained considerable weight and I am clearly "unhealthier" from directory to directory. I hate having my picture taken, ESPECIALLY when I know it is going to be "published".
> >
> > As for the pictures, I believe that you will finally get your system under control. You're on the right path now. Then you will lose weight. I was overweight for many years and never thought I'd be thin again. About a year ago I took off a lot of weight and have so far maintained it. That can happen to you too. Then your next directory picture will make you happy again and you'll finally and visually see all the progress you've been making.
>
> {{{smiles}}} You always seem to know just what to say...Now if I could only turn a little of that wisdom on myself...
> > > > I know that if I get myself out there I can do a lot better than this job but I was happy about this one because the evening hours would allow me time to interview during the day. What worries me is that my brain won't be up for any of the jobs and that once I get them, I won't be able to hold them. I started panicking about it a bit yesterday and today. The panic is good in some ways because at least it may get me moving to interview.
> > >
> > > This is exactly where I am right now. The tears started welling up when I read that. I understand so well. I don't want to let another employer down because of my health taking another turn for the worse. I don't know if I could do it one more time...
> >
> > I'm more worried about me than letting the employers down. They've never been all that concerned about me in the corporate world. The rejection is just horrible and my stomach is in knots now just worrying about this stupid job because of the ego thing and because of the implications for future jobs. (Sorry to make you tear up.)
>
> Implication for future jobs... That's exactly it.
Unfortunately, I spoke with my friend at the agency and they do want me to come back to that job this week. I have such mixed feelings about it. On the one hand, I hate it and would be so relieved and on the otherhand I desperately need the money and don't want the ego-crushing rejection. I guess it's better for me to hang in there and leave on my own terms.> > The good days vs. bad days, do you also feel exhausted and malaise throughout your body - not just the brain fog on the bad days?
>
> I used to feel that, where everything used to be a major effort. But I am much better in that area now. But I am still not where I should be. I really don't even have depression (aside from the occasional fever) anymore.
>
> > When I'm in that kind of fog, it doesn't feel like anything can penetrate it. It's so scary. There's the usual brain fog of depression but then there's the complete brain fog of those days after I've finally gotten a good night's sleep after not sleeping well for at least a couple of nights.
>
> The SSRIs had a bad brain fog effect on me. The other brain fog doesn't bother me as much because it isn't as debilitating or as seemingly permanent.So your main brain fog problem was because of the SSRIs. Once you got them out of your system you were able to focus again? "The other brain fog" you described above is just a result of the adrenal fatigue and is not that big a deal as it is not as intense and not consistent. Am I interpreting correctly?
I hate to belabor this point but I'm really stuck on this right now. I used to think that if I slept well and took care of myself that I could function well in a job. Now I'm realizing that that is just not the case. I can sleep well and get up and have a mind that is useless. I can't hold a job with days like that or at least not the kind of jobs that I've been used to. I am really scared. I have to be able to take something or change my lifestyle or diet or do something so that those foggy days are clearer. It's just so overwhelming to me right now. So I guess I'm drilling you because I want to believe that I can get rid of the worst of this just like you have. However, our brain fog issues might not be exactly the same. Mine is not caused primarily by SSRIs. There's the everyday brain fog of depression which I can function enough with but those other days are just indescribable and I'm just not sure what to attribute them to.
I can't stop getting a good night's sleep once in a while.> > I slept 8 hours the other night and woke up feeling so out of it. I could understand if I had slept for 12 or 16 hours straight but it was only 8! I wonder if MAOIs would help with this at all.
>
> Oh, I don't know... I would carefully consider that first...A lot of people on the main board take them. They seem to be one of the better remedies for those who are treatment resistant. I was always so afraid of them but the results people are having are impressive. They also say that the diets are not that restrictive or hard to handle.
> > I'm definitely going to have to try the teas. I have green tea here already and some Siberian ginseng in capsules. I think I've mentioned that the S. Gingseng gives me a strange feeling like electricity is going through my body but I can tolerate it in smaller doses.
>
> Hmmmm... Maybe you shouldn't do the ginseng.It could be the brand I have that was the problem or that I can only tolerate a small dosage. I'll see. I'd hate to give up on it completely since it's so good for adrenal fatigue.
> > Also, I'll have to try it when not on Effexor and try a different brand. Why the ginger? I really hate the taste of that one although green tea is really bad too.
>
> It was just one of those things in my studies that I found was supposed to be good for so many things, so I tried it and liked it. I think it is mentioned in the adrenal fatigue book...Yeah, it is in the book but I wonder what it brings to the table that the other herbs don't.
> > > > I'm thinking seriously of trying Cymbalta. I've been following the other people who are taking it on the main board and overall the reports seem to be quite good. Maybe that will at least get me to being semi-functional.
> > >
> > > That's a new one to me. What is it???
> >
> > It's a new medication that just came out. Hasn't even been out a month yet. There are some people on the main board who are trying it and they post journals everyday on their progress and a lot of us are following their results. It's like Effexor in that it is an SNRI but it's a more balanced SNRI. Effexor is mostly serotonergic until you get to the higher dosages and even then it's skewed to serotonin. Cymbalta is more evenly noradrenergic from the start. It's supposed to work faster than other ADs but the new ones always say that, don't they? I remember the same hype about Effexor which never panned out. Anyway, so far 3 out of 4 people seem to be seeing results and the fourth one is very treatment resistant (but then so am I).
>
> It may just work for you. I did pretty well on Effexor for 3-4 years (overlooking chronic hives).How awful for you. You must have felt you had to put up with that or else go back to the severe depression.
But getting off of it was a little harder than a SSRI.
I'm on a tiny bit of Effexor now (about 19 mg.) and I'm wanting to go off of it entirely but I'm not up for the rest of the withdrawal process yet. It's definitely not a fun withdrawal or "discontinuation syndrome" as the drug companies and physicians call it.
> > > > I keep meaning to try the ginkgo but I just hate trying these different things and dealing with all of the side effects. I know you understand. Have you had the nerve to try the licorice again?
> > >
> > > I HATE taking a new ANYTHING. I am going to go to the health food store and get ginkgo tea and licorice tea. It isn't as strong as a pill, but I can "sip" a little and wait to see how I react to each, and work my way up. That is how I got into ginseng and ginger.
> >
> > You could also try the tinctures. Then you could put drops into your drinks (tea or juice or a smoothy) and it could still give you that control but might make the taste better. The tinctures tend to stay fresh a long time too because their is a bit of alcohol in them.
>
> I like the tincture idea. Isn't Ouzo flavored with licorice??? LOL
>Now you're talking! I'll just get different liquers and put drops of various herbs in them. That way if they taste bad or give me horrible side effects, I won't know or care!
> God bless,
>
> Simus
>
Take care,
Kara
Posted by karaS on September 14, 2004, at 22:38:15
In reply to Re: Question for Simus » Simus, posted by karaS on September 13, 2004, at 2:15:03
Just wanted to say that I'm doing better than in my last couple of messages. I've been working and my brain has been cooperating nicely to my great relief. I'm less panicked about not being able to hold down a job now. Tonight I'll probably get a good night's sleep and then I'll wake up feeling foggy but I think I know enough to function with it on the job now. You can get away with it if it's once in a while and you're not in training or on the spot.
How are you doing? Busy sipping that uzo?
-K
Posted by Simus on September 14, 2004, at 23:22:17
In reply to Re: Question for Simus, posted by karaS on September 14, 2004, at 22:38:15
> Just wanted to say that I'm doing better than in my last couple of messages. I've been working and my brain has been cooperating nicely to my great relief. I'm less panicked about not being able to hold down a job now. Tonight I'll probably get a good night's sleep and then I'll wake up feeling foggy but I think I know enough to function with it on the job now. You can get away with it if it's once in a while and you're not in training or on the spot.
>
> How are you doing? Busy sipping that uzo?
>
> -K
LOL No, no uzo yet. I was wondering how you have been doing. I am glad you are having at least a little better time of it. Sometimes it can be downright overwhelming, can't it? Hey, do you remember when sleep used to be our friend???I am doing ok. My "down" times now are more situation related than chemical. And they aren't that serious. So at least I have a fighting chance.
Are you taking any supplements right now? I am on just a few "core" vitamins and minerals. Now, if I could just be disciplined enough to take them every day... I really need to shake myself and just proceed with trying some of the new things. But you know, it is so hard to "mess with a good thing" even if the good thing isn't perfect...
Simus
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