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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by gromit on November 11, 2004, at 1:23:18
Eeep, I just got results back from a blood test. Total cholesterol was 222 but triglycerides were 450. They were unable to figure out my HDL level since the triglycerides were so high! I had my last test less than a year ago, HDL level was a little low, but total was 170 or so. What would cause the levels go to up so quickly?
I'm going to keep the fish oil, add more fiber and soy protein. More aerobic exercise. What else have people tried that worked for them? Anyone tried the "functional foods"? Had any luck with them?
Thanks
Rick
Posted by MKB on November 11, 2004, at 1:32:41
In reply to High LDL and Triglycerides, posted by gromit on November 11, 2004, at 1:23:18
Rule out hypothyroidism, which causes a rise in cholesterol.
Posted by tealady on November 11, 2004, at 3:48:55
In reply to High LDL and Triglycerides, posted by gromit on November 11, 2004, at 1:23:18
> Eeep, I just got results back from a blood test. Total cholesterol was 222 but triglycerides were 450. They were unable to figure out my HDL level since the triglycerides were so high! I had my last test less than a year ago, HDL level was a little low, but total was 170 or so. What would cause the levels go to up so quickly?
>
> I'm going to keep the fish oil, add more fiber and soy protein. More aerobic exercise. What else have people tried that worked for them? Anyone tried the "functional foods"? Had any luck with them?
>
>
> Thanks
> Rick
>http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20041022/msgs/407330.html
how long b4 the cholesterol test did you stop the fish oil.
For ferritin you should stop about a week b4. I heard 5 days but I give it 2 weeks b4 to be sure.Probably about 2 weeks for fish oil as well?
no idea really...
Posted by gromit on November 11, 2004, at 11:38:44
In reply to Re: High LDL and Triglycerides » gromit, posted by tealady on November 11, 2004, at 3:48:55
> how long b4 the cholesterol test did you stop the fish oil.
> For ferritin you should stop about a week b4. I heard 5 days but I give it 2 weeks b4 to be sure.
>
> Probably about 2 weeks for fish oil as well?
> no idea really...I didn't stop at all, maybe I should have? I'll see her tomorrow and see what she suggests. My thyroid levels were quite good so it's not that.
Thanks
Rick
Posted by tealady on November 11, 2004, at 13:48:49
In reply to Re: High LDL and Triglycerides, posted by gromit on November 11, 2004, at 11:38:44
the other thing that crossed my mind is the cholesterol test is supposed to be done fasting, like first thing in the morning.
And yes, you should have stopped th fish oil at least a few days b4 from what I've heard.
i'd be interested if you do retest to hear what the difference is in your results as I've never heard of any actual individual results. personally I like to hear a few people having the same result difference to be sure.It didn't seem like a thyroid type difference to me at all BTW<g>
Also I'm trialling taking some things to increase the sulphur or sulponation or methylation..unsure of term (MSM and glucosamine sulphate and chrondrontin sulphate mix with iron and magnesium)..I'm hoping that's a good combo. I'd like to add in NAC here too.
as well as keeping my ferritin in the 50-100 range..well above 50 is the aim for me(that's liquid iron).
I'm just testing a theory that maybe a combo of sufficient iron and sulphur might help break down cholesterol...no idea if it works though. Both are needed in using cholesterol as well as other things..that's the logic behind it all.
Posted by gromit on November 12, 2004, at 3:33:39
In reply to Re: High LDL and Triglycerides » gromit, posted by tealady on November 11, 2004, at 13:48:49
> the other thing that crossed my mind is the cholesterol test is supposed to be done fasting, like first thing in the morning.
> And yes, you should have stopped th fish oil at least a few days b4 from what I've heard.
> i'd be interested if you do retest to hear what the difference is in your results as I've never heard of any actual individual results. personally I like to hear a few people having the same result difference to be sure.Well I lied in my first post, I did have a test a couple months ago but didn't fast. It was my first visit with a new GP and wasn't expecting bloodwork. So this actually was a re-test, this time fasting. It was way worse than the first one! I'm hoping it's a lab goof-up, I had a test come back once with my white count out of sight. Took another test the next day and it was fine.
> It didn't seem like a thyroid type difference to me at all BTW<g>
>
> Also I'm trialling taking some things to increase the sulphur or sulponation or methylation..unsure of term (MSM and glucosamine sulphate and chrondrontin sulphate mix with iron and magnesium)..I'm hoping that's a good combo. I'd like to add in NAC here too.I've been taking quite a bit of MSM for a while now.
> as well as keeping my ferritin in the 50-100 range..well above 50 is the aim for me(that's liquid iron).
> I'm just testing a theory that maybe a combo of sufficient iron and sulphur might help break down cholesterol...no idea if it works though. Both are needed in using cholesterol as well as other things..that's the logic behind it all.Hmmm, didn't have any minerals checked. I really don't have a clue how this all works, I just want to avoid taking another drug, or at least keep the dose down as far as possible.
Rick
Posted by tealady on November 12, 2004, at 4:44:50
In reply to Re: High LDL and Triglycerides, posted by gromit on November 12, 2004, at 3:33:39
yes, Its probably a lab stuff up for your results.
if you are getting retested though and its covered by insurance getting electrolytes done and a ferritin test (part of iron studies or by itself) might be a good idea anyway.
most guys aren't low on high..most are high if anything, but low does occur rarely...and high needs to be treated too. Just good to rule out as much as possible I think if your levels are out.
I'm hoping to avoid a statin type drug too. I've decided I'm definitely not taking them, but my levels weren't all that bad.Ray posted this in a post above
"The gut and brain hormone CCK needs sulfate to be activated - so MSM can be useful to stimulate the digestion..most studies on CCK are on rats who's CCK works differently from ours.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15533776 "so I figure if CCK stimulates pancretic enzymes to be released..and they break down fats and lipids..then this MSM sufur giving things might help break down cholesterol...just wishing thinking at this stage for me..only started a couple of days ago.
Also the pathways charts seemed to indicate both iron and sulfur are needed in the breakdown of cholesterol...like I said, wishful thinking here. ..and maybe some correct theoretical logic..can't hurt at least.Jan
Posted by JLx on November 12, 2004, at 11:02:26
In reply to High LDL and Triglycerides, posted by gromit on November 11, 2004, at 1:23:18
> Eeep, I just got results back from a blood test. Total cholesterol was 222 but triglycerides were 450. They were unable to figure out my HDL level since the triglycerides were so high! I had my last test less than a year ago, HDL level was a little low, but total was 170 or so. What would cause the levels go to up so quickly?
>
> I'm going to keep the fish oil, add more fiber and soy protein. More aerobic exercise. What else have people tried that worked for them? Anyone tried the "functional foods"? Had any luck with them?
>
>
> Thanks
> Rick
>There's lots of information on this site: http://qualitycounts.com/fptriglyceride.html
Looks like there are other possibilities such as pantethine, inositol hexanicotinate, psyllium fiber, green tea, curcumin, silymarin.
This is interesting:
Health & Nutrition Breakthrough, 1/99 - "Low copper levels, which can be induced by taking more than 25 mg/day of zinc, may increase triglycerides as well as reduce HDL levels.25 Zinc/copper ratios should be monitored."
That's from a general magazine but there's some evidence of confirmation on other pages on the web, such as this one indirectly: http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/full/18/4/353
Digestive enzymes: http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:oSgqq3aMoAkJ:www.diagnose-me.com/cond/C281702.html+diagnose-me+triglycerides&hl=en
Here's what they say at Life Extension:
"The following nutritional supplements offer synergistic benefits to assist dietary modification to reduce total serum cholesterol and elevate HDL cholesterol:
Policosanol, take one tablet twice per day with meals: one in the afternoon and one in the evening.
Soluble fiber (psyllium, guar gum, and/or pectin), 4 to 6 grams before any high-fat meal.
Chitosan, three to six 500-mg chitosan capsules and one 1000 mg ascorbic acid capsule right before a high-fat meal.
Niacin, 1500 to 3000 mg a day (if tolerable). Consider flush-free niacin (inositol hexanicotinate) to avoid a "red face."
Artichoke extract, 300 mg, 3 times a day.
Garlic, 900 to 8000 mg a day.
Curcumin, 900 to 1800 mg a day.
Gugulipid, 140 mg 1 to 2 times a day.
Green tea, 350 mg a day of green tea, 95% polyphenol extract.
Perilla oil, 6000 mg a day. We suggest taking six 1000-mg gel caps daily. If triglycerides are high, take 6000 mg of fish oil instead.
Vitamin E, 400 to 800 IU daily
Soy protein extract, 2 heaping teaspoons (5 to 6 grams) of soy powder daily. Soy powder can be easily dispersed and has a light peanut butter taste. For those who want to avoid powders, one capsule of Mega Soy Extract (135 mg/40% extract) twice a day may work as well.
Selenium, 200 to 600 mcg daily."Bill Sardi, http://www.askbillsardi.com/sdm.asp?pg=cr_iii, says that tocotrienols (preferably tocopherol free), magnesium, taurine, fish oils (for tryglycerides), niacin (up to 1500 mg) and the zinc-copper ratio are the "most valid cholesterol lowering agents". Disproven are chitosan and soy with things like lecithin, chromium, boron, etc. requiring further study. Interesting.
JL
Posted by raybakes on November 12, 2004, at 11:31:16
In reply to High LDL and Triglycerides, posted by gromit on November 11, 2004, at 1:23:18
> Eeep, I just got results back from a blood test. Total cholesterol was 222 but triglycerides were 450. They were unable to figure out my HDL level since the triglycerides were so high! I had my last test less than a year ago, HDL level was a little low, but total was 170 or so. What would cause the levels go to up so quickly?
>
> I'm going to keep the fish oil, add more fiber and soy protein. More aerobic exercise. What else have people tried that worked for them? Anyone tried the "functional foods"? Had any luck with them?
>
>
> Thanks
> Rick
>Hi Rick,
high LDL and triglycerides could be part of a syndrome X picture - insulin raises the activity of the rate limiting enzyme in chloesterol production (HMG CoA reductase). So it would be interesting to see what your insulin levels are like. Vitamin D, fish oils, CLA, tocotrienols, lipoic acid and soluble fibre are all useful in insulin resistance.
tocotrienols and HMG CoA reductase
'alpha-tocotrienol (alpha-T3), a vitamin E analogue and HMG CoA reductase (HMGR) inhibitor'
As cholesterol is removed through the bile, liver gall bladder and gut function are important - Jan mentioned CCK and sulphate, I think the gall bladder emptying depends on CCK. Also acid entering the duodenum triggers the gall bladder, so ensuring sufficient stomach acid is wise.
The bowel flora are imporant too...Serum cholesterol and bowel flora in the newborn.
'Lactobacilli organisms predominate in the stools when serum cholesterol is low and may play a role in the metabolism of cholesterol'
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=45573&dopt=Abstract
Good luck,
Ray
Posted by gromit on November 14, 2004, at 0:50:34
In reply to Re: High LDL and Triglycerides, posted by gromit on November 12, 2004, at 3:33:39
Thank you all for your help. I will try to digest all this information, I'll probably still be baffled and have to ask more questions later.
Rick
Posted by Jai Narayan on November 22, 2004, at 22:12:34
In reply to Re: High LDL and Triglycerides, posted by gromit on November 14, 2004, at 0:50:34
there's one more product. It's Cinnamon Force by New Chapter. It reduces high Triglycerides and LDL. It tastes great and I chew the cap. Take one right after a high carb meal. two a day is the limit.
Jai
Posted by gromit on November 24, 2004, at 13:03:28
In reply to Re: High LDL and Triglycerides....... Gromit wait, posted by Jai Narayan on November 22, 2004, at 22:12:34
> there's one more product. It's Cinnamon Force by New Chapter. It reduces high Triglycerides and LDL. It tastes great and I chew the cap. Take one right after a high carb meal. two a day is the limit.
I remember reading an article about cinnamon having health benefits a while ago, my cholesterol was ok then. I forgot all about it, thank you for posting. Has taking this product lowered your cholesterol?
I really wonder what has changed in the last 18 months that caused my levels to go so much higher.
Thanks
Rick
This is the end of the thread.
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