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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Sooshi on February 14, 2004, at 19:12:03
My pdoc wants to add Lithobid to my cocktail of Effexor and Topamax, and I just can't bring myself to take another med! If these two aren't working, adding another does NOT seem to be the answer....I don't know. I am wondering if lithium orotate, which I've only read about on this board, could be taken instead of the Lithobid?? I do NOT like the side effects of lithium that I get (nausea, shakes, dizziness) and wonder just HOW EFFECTIVE (mood stabilizing)the li orotate is?? Does it cause the same side effects? Any suggestions/advice would be GREATLY appreciated!!!
Posted by john1022 on February 15, 2004, at 8:28:32
In reply to Lithium orotate instead of Lithobid?, posted by Sooshi on February 14, 2004, at 19:12:03
My pdoc who is an MD, practices both normal medication and alternative methods. She says they always try lithium orotate first because it has been so effective to nearly everyone they have given it to and just as effective as the prescription lithium. The bonus: no side effects and no dangers to the body of toxicity. I am currently taking it and it is helping quite a bit. Can't hurt to try it first to see if it works and then move to the prescription if it doesn't. It sounds like from what my doc was telling me that if you respond to prescrition lithium, then you will probably react well to the organic lithium orotate form. good luck
Posted by Sooshi on February 15, 2004, at 10:22:21
In reply to Re: Lithium orotate instead of Lithobid?, posted by john1022 on February 15, 2004, at 8:28:32
Thank you so much john! Mind if I ask a few more questions? I'm assuming I can get it at the health food store? How is it taken..what dosages and such, or should I follow the bottle's instructions, (assuming it comes in pill form)? I will inform my pdoc if I decide to go this route, just so he will know what's going on with me next time we meet - he's pretty cool. I wish I could find an MD who follows alternative medicine...I might do some hard searching, but mainly it's a matter of insurance, darnit! Thanks again,
Sooshi
Posted by john1022 on February 15, 2004, at 10:34:11
In reply to Re: Lithium orotate instead of Lithobid? » john1022, posted by Sooshi on February 15, 2004, at 10:22:21
no problem. I don't think you can get Lithium orotate through health food stores (I think they only carry lithium aspartate for some reason or another and I am not sure about the effectivness of this lithium). You can order it online through findserenitynow.com I believe. My doc gives me it from the company Vitamin Research Products which can probably be found online.
Each capsule has 4.8 mg elemental lithium, but a total of 120 mg lithium orotate. I guess the rest is orotate.
The recommened amount is 2-3 pills a day at different times of the day. Up to 4 can be given as well. My doctor basically said try to work up to 3-4. Some people take as many as 6 though from what I have read. But I think if you are going to get results from it, around 3 pills a day would work.
I have zero side effects from it and it doesn't even seem like I am taking anything. no drugged or dumbed down feeling or anything.
I am beginning to think my problem has more to do with serotonin though because my doc added 5htp and I had an immediate strong response to it the last few days where my depression and fogginess pretty much lifted.
my doc also mentioned that they have found that bipolars usually have low levels of the amino acids taurine and tyrosine, which are both neurotransmitters. Taurine is involved with supressing glucose uptake (which is often the problem in bipolar) and it regulates other neurotransmitters that might be overactive or overfiring. I was low in Taurine and started supplementing 2000 mg a day. It also gave me a positive and beneficial effective no doubt about it. Quercitin is another vitiman or amino acid that is a natural glucose inhibitor that might be worth looking into as well
let me know if you have any other questions. I think everyone should try this first before going on prescription lithium just to see if it works first because of the safeness of it and it is side effect free
Posted by joebob on February 15, 2004, at 15:06:47
In reply to Re: Lithium orotate instead of Lithobid?, posted by john1022 on February 15, 2004, at 10:34:11
make a referral?
is she a psychiatrist or gp?thanks,
joebob
Posted by john1022 on February 15, 2004, at 18:05:52
In reply to where does your doctor practice....i'd like to, posted by joebob on February 15, 2004, at 15:06:47
Joebob,
Are you in the northeast? My doc is located in Boston. She is a pychiatrist and neurologist and seems to be very knowledgeable about a lot
The premise of alternative treatments are using amino acids and vitamins that participate in the creation of neurotransmitters that may be low. I found this doctor by checking out the site neuroreplete.com. I contacted them through email asking if there were any doctors in my area. They named a few and I ended up with one of the doctors they mentioned. If you contact them I am sure they will point you to the closest doctor to you
Posted by Sooshi on February 16, 2004, at 0:03:45
In reply to Re: Lithium orotate instead of Lithobid?, posted by john1022 on February 15, 2004, at 10:34:11
john, you are a true blessing!
I am definately a bipolar 2....the amino acids and 5htp sound alot more promising to me than the lithium, only because I just haven't had any success at with all the mood stabilizers I've taken, including the Topamax I'm now taking.
Wow, what a great response from the 5htp you've had! I'm in such a depression and my fogginess is in the form of not being able to concentrate, focus, organize, etc. Something I feel lithium would just make worse. I will definately check into 5htp. I know I can get this at the health food store, right?
I've been reading some about taurine and tyrosine too, and they also sound quite promising. I will check into these also.
I wonder what reactions any of these would have with my current meds (Effexor and Topamax)?
And what about inositol?
Thank you so much!
Posted by john1022 on February 16, 2004, at 11:54:12
In reply to Re: Lithium orotate instead of Lithobid? » john1022, posted by Sooshi on February 16, 2004, at 0:03:45
You can get 5htp at a health food store. You might want to be careful or at least do some research on the web about combining 5htp and Effexor because of the risk of serotonin syndrome. Although I did read some study somewhere that the use of Prozac and small amounts of 5htp were more effective than prozac alone. This is just one study though, so maybe ask your doctor or read up about it before you try it. In other words, don't take it from me that it is safe.
Inositol is probably not the thing that you want to try if you are bipolar 2. I have seen some studies of it trying to be used to treat mania (I think that was it) but actually with bipolar you want to try to decrease inositol levels which a lot of bipolar medications do. I was taking inositol and getting pretty bad (didn't really realize how bad I was getting) until I saw this doctor.
She said stop the inositol immediately and start the lithium orotate. Just stopping the inositol alone made me feel better and then even better when I began the lithium orotate. She said inositol is good for depression and OCD though, just not some forms of bipolar (which forms I don't know unfortunately)
She wanted to also start me on good sized doses of fish oil but I have been sensitive to meds lately (I am finally able to take 5htp and magnesium though which I couldn't a month ago). The fish oil is good for depression and also bipolar disorder apparently. I will probably try the fish oil here pretty soon.
I am not sure about reactions of all these with Topamax or Effexor so that might be something you look into before trying anything. Best of luck. Let me know if you have any other questions
Posted by Sooshi on February 16, 2004, at 17:38:01
In reply to Re: Lithium orotate instead of Lithobid?, posted by john1022 on February 16, 2004, at 11:54:12
Ok, I did tons of research today, and I think I've decided to go with the lithium orotate.
Do you have any suggestions where to get this? What brand/kind do you take? I've seen the Nubrain(?)/Nootropics brand and the, oh man now I can't remember (that's Topamax for you....). Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, as I have no idea what brand is truly the real thing.
ANYBODY ELSE who is reading this, what brand are you taking, and how is it working for you?I think I would also like to start taking L-tyrosine, and that would be about it for me, as I take a bunch of other stuff and my stomach can't deal with this much! (Nor can my pocketbook)
Again, thanks!
Posted by john1022 on February 16, 2004, at 17:48:29
In reply to Re: Lithium orotate instead of Lithobid? » john1022, posted by Sooshi on February 16, 2004, at 17:38:01
I am taking a brand made by Vitamin Research Products. I think the most commonly used brand is the one on findserenitynow.com. you can also purchase it from their site. They are the originators I believe of lithium orotate
Posted by Sooshi on February 18, 2004, at 0:28:25
In reply to Re: Lithium orotate instead of Lithobid?, posted by john1022 on February 16, 2004, at 17:48:29
I believe you've told me that once before, so thanks for repeating it!
Posted by LOOPS on February 20, 2004, at 8:11:44
In reply to Re: Lithium orotate instead of Lithobid? » john1022, posted by Sooshi on February 18, 2004, at 0:28:25
I get mine from betterlife.com. It's much cheaper than anywhere else and it works. Don't bother with the more expensive stuff (serenity?) - it's the same stuff.
If you're interested in taurine, l-tyrosine, there are loads of multi formulas specifically for the brain that are cheap (Mental Edge by Source Naturals is the most basic, but very good, contains l-tyrosine, l-phenylalanine, taurine I think and lots of vitamins/herbs). I have a multi called Neuroclear from good4all.net which I found works really well with 5-htp. I do vary my regime every couple of months so have a handful of stuff in the cupboard. Much better than meds though.
Lou
Posted by bruce_w6 on March 2, 2004, at 17:00:11
In reply to Lithium orotate, posted by LOOPS on February 20, 2004, at 8:11:44
I am taking Lamictal and was wondering if adding Lithium orotate will stop the mind racing. I am at 100 mg of Lamictal and don't know if a highr dose (when I reach it) will stop the mind racing.
I can't remember when I have had a good nights sleep. I am trying to go natural meds if I can.
Melatonan puts me to sleep but I am awake 2-3 hours later with my mind back to racing and I can't fall back to sleep.
Posted by joebob on March 6, 2004, at 21:11:51
In reply to I am taking Lamictal and, posted by bruce_w6 on March 2, 2004, at 17:00:11
Posted by Rob25 on April 26, 2004, at 8:35:01
In reply to Re: Lithium orotate instead of Lithobid? » john1022, posted by Sooshi on February 16, 2004, at 17:38:01
Hi --
I'm also using lithium orotate with great results. I can hardly believe it since I had such a horrible time with the standard meds. I use the NCI Advanced Research brand. It's very inexpensive and works as well for me as the Serenity stuff (expensive name brand.)
Rob
Posted by Rob25 on April 26, 2004, at 8:39:51
In reply to Re: Lithium orotate instead of Lithobid?, posted by john1022 on February 16, 2004, at 11:54:12
Would you mind if I posted this conversation with all the info you've put here at a lithium orotate message board I go to? It's linked to a lithium orotate info site with a lot of information and I think the people who go there would be really interested in what you have to say here. I know I am! : )
Thanks very much for taking the time to post all this information! It will probably help a lot of people.
Rob
Posted by Rob25 on April 26, 2004, at 8:42:13
In reply to Info site for lithium orotate » john1022, posted by Rob25 on April 26, 2004, at 8:39:51
http://mysite.verizon.net/res003jh/lithium-orotate/
The message board is listed as a link on the navigation bar.
Thanks again.
Rob
Posted by LOOPS on April 26, 2004, at 10:32:52
In reply to I am taking Lamictal and, posted by bruce_w6 on March 2, 2004, at 17:00:11
> I am taking Lamictal and was wondering if adding Lithium orotate will stop the mind racing. I am at 100 mg of Lamictal and don't know if a highr dose (when I reach it) will stop the mind racing.
>
> I can't remember when I have had a good nights sleep. I am trying to go natural meds if I can.
>
> Melatonan puts me to sleep but I am awake 2-3 hours later with my mind back to racing and I can't fall back to sleep.Have you tried taking 1,500mg inositol with 400mg chelated magnesium and 750mg GABA (along with the melatonin)?
I tried this a few days ago and it makes a huge difference in how long I stay asleep. Oddly, inositol during the day (500mg) is slightly activating for me, but a larger dose in the evening with GABA and magnesium really does the trick (also with valerian complex).
Loops
Posted by bruce_w6 on April 26, 2004, at 10:43:21
In reply to Re: I am taking Lamictal and, posted by LOOPS on April 26, 2004, at 10:32:52
I am also taking Lamictal (250 mg) and lithium orotate (6 x 120 a day) and it doesn't stop the mind racing. I had the same problem sleeping and the only thing that helped is 12.5 mg or seroquel at bedtime (1/2 of 25 mg tablet). I sleep 7-9 hours soundly but when I wake up the mind racing starts again.
> > I am taking Lamictal and was wondering if adding Lithium orotate will stop the mind racing. I am at 100 mg of Lamictal and don't know if a highr dose (when I reach it) will stop the mind racing.
> >
> > I can't remember when I have had a good nights sleep. I am trying to go natural meds if I can.
> >
> > Melatonan puts me to sleep but I am awake 2-3 hours later with my mind back to racing and I can't fall back to sleep.
>
>
>
> Have you tried taking 1,500mg inositol with 400mg chelated magnesium and 750mg GABA (along with the melatonin)?
>
> I tried this a few days ago and it makes a huge difference in how long I stay asleep. Oddly, inositol during the day (500mg) is slightly activating for me, but a larger dose in the evening with GABA and magnesium really does the trick (also with valerian complex).
>
> Loops
Posted by NetPublicist on May 12, 2004, at 8:27:44
In reply to Re: I am taking Lamictal and, posted by LOOPS on April 26, 2004, at 10:32:52
My wife has rapid cycling bi-polar disorder. The doctors tried many different meds with her, but the side effects were terrible. She has been on 5HTP for the depression and Lithium Orotate for the manic episodes for two years now.
She has not had a manic episode in almost two years, and has only had mild depression. We get the 5HTP at Wal-Mart and the Lithium Orotate from WebVitamins.com
Posted by Isuba on November 24, 2004, at 0:41:21
In reply to I am taking Lamictal and, posted by bruce_w6 on March 2, 2004, at 17:00:11
> I am taking Lamictal and was wondering if adding Lithium orotate will stop the mind racing. I am at 100 mg of Lamictal and don't know if a highr dose (when I reach it) will stop the mind racing.
>
> I can't remember when I have had a good nights sleep. I am trying to go natural meds if I can.
>
> Melatonan puts me to sleep but I am awake 2-3 hours later with my mind back to racing and I can't fall back to sleep.=================
I have been taking OmegaBrite now for 8 months. It is very good. I have Bipolar I with Psychosis. I take 4 capsules per day with 500mg Vit. C and 400 IU of Vit. E. http://www.omegabrite.com/ The main ingredient is Eicosapentaenoic Acid or EPA, which is a type of Omega-3 Fatty Acid. Each capsule of OmegaBrite has 350mg of EPA, 500mg Total contents. 4 caps would be 1400mg of EPA that I consume every day. It is excellent. Racing thoughts are gone. Manias and risky behaviors are gone. Delusions and psychosis are like 99% gone. I still have the occasional mild higher energy state but it's almost a non-issue. For like 4-5 Months I had no depressions worth mentioning. HOWEVER... when the first fall/ beginning of winter came, that I was taking this fish oil... finally a BIG major depressive episode broke through. So it doens't completely take care of the depressive end. But I don't think I'll ever have another mania or racing thoughts risky behavior, trying to do too many things at once and getting confused or overwhelmed again. And THANK GOD FOR THAT.
NOTE: Safety Note: Make sure you find a product that does not contain Mercury, or other heavy metals or toxins... Make sure they filter them out. Would suck to get the mania and psychosis and stuff under control and then end up with long term Mercury Poisoning...
There is another comparable product on the market similar to OmegaBrite, called OM3... but I have not personally tried it out. http://www.isodisnatura.co.uk/om3.htm
Good luck.
I think I will now do more research on Lithium Orotate, and eventually try it if all checks out ok, in my eyes. I have just discovered it tonight.
Thanks a lot, and let's put the greedy pharmaceutical companies back in their goddamned places. ;)
Posted by Poetess on November 24, 2004, at 3:01:02
In reply to Fish Oil stops the racing thoughts and mania., posted by Isuba on November 24, 2004, at 0:41:21
Hi,
Flax oil also works in the same way as fish oil. I used to take flax oil, and now take organic milled flax seeds instead. Milled flax tastes a lot better and also has worked better for me than the oil. I take two tablespoons a day of milled flax seeds. I just sprinkle it on my food.I understand it's best not to grind your own flax seeds. Seems that the nutrients are senstive to the heat produced from the heat of the motor in spice grinder. Organic is also best for nutrients.
I forget the name of the milled flax that I take, but I can send it out later, if you want.Poetess
> I have been taking OmegaBrite now for 8 months. It is very good. I have Bipolar I with Psychosis. I take 4 capsules per day with 500mg Vit. C and 400 IU of Vit. E. http://www.omegabrite.com/ The main ingredient is Eicosapentaenoic Acid or EPA, which is a type of Omega-3 Fatty Acid. Each capsule of OmegaBrite has 350mg of EPA, 500mg Total contents. 4 caps would be 1400mg of EPA that I consume every day. It is excellent. Racing thoughts are gone. Manias and risky behaviors are gone. Delusions and psychosis are like 99% gone. I still have the occasional mild higher energy state but it's almost a non-issue. For like 4-5 Months I had no depressions worth mentioning. HOWEVER... when the first fall/ beginning of winter came, that I was taking this fish oil... finally a BIG major depressive episode broke through. So it doens't completely take care of the depressive end. But I don't think I'll ever have another mania or racing thoughts risky behavior, trying to do too many things at once and getting confused or overwhelmed again. And THANK GOD FOR THAT.
>
> NOTE: Safety Note: Make sure you find a product that does not contain Mercury, or other heavy metals or toxins... Make sure they filter them out. Would suck to get the mania and psychosis and stuff under control and then end up with long term Mercury Poisoning...
>
> There is another comparable product on the market similar to OmegaBrite, called OM3... but I have not personally tried it out. http://www.isodisnatura.co.uk/om3.htm
>
> Good luck.
>
> I think I will now do more research on Lithium Orotate, and eventually try it if all checks out ok, in my eyes. I have just discovered it tonight.
>
> Thanks a lot, and let's put the greedy pharmaceutical companies back in their goddamned places. ;)
>
Posted by Larry Hoover on November 25, 2004, at 4:53:11
In reply to Fish Oil stops the racing thoughts and mania., posted by Isuba on November 24, 2004, at 0:41:21
> NOTE: Safety Note: Make sure you find a product that does not contain Mercury, or other heavy metals or toxins... Make sure they filter them out. Would suck to get the mania and psychosis and stuff under control and then end up with long term Mercury Poisoning...
Glad to hear the fish oil has been so effective.
Just a note for clarification, but there is no mercury, or any metals of any kind, in fish oil. It's like oil and water. Metals stay in the water soluble/protein world. When the oil is separated from the flesh of the fish, all metals are left behind.
There are fat-soluble pollutants that might be present, but some brands claim to be near totally purged of those, as well. I believe Omega-brite is one of those brands.
Lar
Posted by lostforwards on December 7, 2004, at 17:49:09
In reply to Fish Oil stops the racing thoughts and mania., posted by Isuba on November 24, 2004, at 0:41:21
If it works keep it up.
don't help them to bury the light Don't give in without a fight.
Posted by windygo on December 15, 2005, at 21:11:40
In reply to Oops! Here's the link to the lithium orotate site, posted by Rob25 on April 26, 2004, at 8:42:13
Those who are still monitoring this old thread on lithium orotate should be interested in the new thread beginning with the following URL:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20051025/msgs/586709.html
Thanks,
Wayne
This is the end of the thread.
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