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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by KaraS on December 2, 2004, at 19:24:31
I have never been diagnosed as having asthma but at particular times in my life I've had difficulty breathing. It's been a long time since I've had much of a problem with it but lately it's become an issue again. (The last time I had a big problem with it I was under a lot of stress - as I am now also.) I have quite a few allergy problems so I'm sure that plays into it but I haven't been able to identify any particular allergens or triggers. I'm wondering what would be good ways to treat this without hard-core drugs. Has anyone here had a similar problem and, if so, have you had good results with particular supplements or other methods of treatment?
Posted by jujube on December 2, 2004, at 20:25:12
In reply to Alternative Treatment for Asthma?, posted by KaraS on December 2, 2004, at 19:24:31
I don't have much to offer, but when I was researching people's experiences with NADH, I did come across a post by Larry (dated August 3, 2003 - Musings about my experience with Enada NADH) in which he talks about how NADH had had a positive effect on his allergies and asthma. So, perhaps he can offer more in terms of his experience.
In a vitamin/mineral/supplement reference book I have, there is a reference to: EPA (essential fatty acids) tending to improve symptoms of asthma (by blocking the pro-inflammatory prostaglandins); Curcumin (a flavonoid) in doses in the range 500 - 1,500 mg apparently is supposed to be good for allergies, arthritis, asthma and inflammation; B-6 in doses between 50 - 300 mg may be beneficial to asthmatics.
Tamara
Posted by KaraS on December 2, 2004, at 21:30:36
In reply to Re: Alternative Treatment for Asthma? » KaraS, posted by jujube on December 2, 2004, at 20:25:12
> I don't have much to offer, but when I was researching people's experiences with NADH, I did come across a post by Larry (dated August 3, 2003 - Musings about my experience with Enada NADH) in which he talks about how NADH had had a positive effect on his allergies and asthma. So, perhaps he can offer more in terms of his experience.
>
> In a vitamin/mineral/supplement reference book I have, there is a reference to: EPA (essential fatty acids) tending to improve symptoms of asthma (by blocking the pro-inflammatory prostaglandins); Curcumin (a flavonoid) in doses in the range 500 - 1,500 mg apparently is supposed to be good for allergies, arthritis, asthma and inflammation; B-6 in doses between 50 - 300 mg may be beneficial to asthmatics.
>
> Tamara
Thanks Tamara,
I think I need to take things that are good as anti-inflammatories. It always seems to come down to that, doesn't it? Some people (like Ray) think inflammation is the cause of so many problems including depression.K
Posted by sabre on December 2, 2004, at 23:43:46
In reply to Re: Alternative Treatment for Asthma? » jujube, posted by KaraS on December 2, 2004, at 21:30:36
Hello jujube
Have you heard about the Buteyko method:
http://www.buteyko.com/When I took Lexapro and Tryptophan I found my exercise induced asthma became worse. I found a reference to it in ''The Encyclopaedia of Natural Medicine''. The authors recommended a low tryptophan diet or vit B6 supplementation. They mentioned that there were high levels of serotonin in the blood and sputum of asthmatics. H5-HIAA, a breakdown product of serotonin was also found in their urine and the level correlated with the severity of the asthma.
Other factors they mentioned were food allergies, low gastric acid secretion and candida albicans in the gut. They can contribute to leaky gut syndrome and an increased antigen load on the immune system, which can increase the chances of developing asthma.
Magnesium is also suposed to relax the smooth muscles of the bronchi.
High dietary salt apparently increases bronchial reactivity.
sabre
Posted by GeishaGirl on December 3, 2004, at 9:10:17
In reply to Re: Alternative Treatment for Asthma?, posted by sabre on December 2, 2004, at 23:43:46
Hi,
I have asthama, but it only happens every once in awhile, so I never wanted to take anything on a daily basis.
I was looking for a long time for something to take when I had an attack. I hate inhalers, they make me feel really wired, hyper, like I was crawling out of my skin.
What works for me is drinking about 16 ounces of yerba mate (there's an acccent over the 'e' in mate, sorry my computer couldn't do that one). It's a tea from South America. I steep one tablespoon of mate for every eight ounces of water and drink about 16 ounces of it if I get an attack (sometimes less, if the attack is more minor, sometimes a little more is the attack is bad). I stay away from the tea bags and buy it loose leaf. The tea bags aren't strong enough.
If you are sensitive to stimulants, I'm not sure how you'll react to mate. I have a hard time drinking a lot of coffee (jittery and angry), but not with mate. Others I have known some people with coffee sensitivity that have a problem drinking mate. After how I felt on inhalers, this was a truly wonderful thing for me. Everyone's body is different. I also don't know about how or if mate would interact with meds.
If you can't find mate at a store or if you like it and want to buy it cheaper in bulk, I have a link of where you can get some really good mate for cheaper than the stores.
Geisha Girl
Posted by KaraS on December 3, 2004, at 14:44:57
In reply to Re: Alternative Treatment for Asthma?, posted by GeishaGirl on December 3, 2004, at 9:10:17
> Hi,
>
> I have asthama, but it only happens every once in awhile, so I never wanted to take anything on a daily basis.
>
> I was looking for a long time for something to take when I had an attack. I hate inhalers, they make me feel really wired, hyper, like I was crawling out of my skin.
>
> What works for me is drinking about 16 ounces of yerba mate (there's an acccent over the 'e' in mate, sorry my computer couldn't do that one). It's a tea from South America. I steep one tablespoon of mate for every eight ounces of water and drink about 16 ounces of it if I get an attack (sometimes less, if the attack is more minor, sometimes a little more is the attack is bad). I stay away from the tea bags and buy it loose leaf. The tea bags aren't strong enough.
>
> If you are sensitive to stimulants, I'm not sure how you'll react to mate. I have a hard time drinking a lot of coffee (jittery and angry), but not with mate. Others I have known some people with coffee sensitivity that have a problem drinking mate. After how I felt on inhalers, this was a truly wonderful thing for me. Everyone's body is different. I also don't know about how or if mate would interact with meds.
>
> If you can't find mate at a store or if you like it and want to buy it cheaper in bulk, I have a link of where you can get some really good mate for cheaper than the stores.
>
> Geisha Girl
That's really interesting. Thanks. Wasn't there some controversy over the safety of mate though?Also, that would work if you're home and could brew it. What about if you're out somewhere?
Posted by GeishaGirl on December 7, 2004, at 13:31:11
In reply to Re: Alternative Treatment for Asthma? » GeishaGirl, posted by KaraS on December 3, 2004, at 14:44:57
Hi rainy,
> That's really interesting. Thanks. Wasn't there some controversy over the safety of mate though?Also, that would work if you're home and could brew it. What about if you're out somewhere?I havent heard about the controversy the you mentioned. I did mention this previously:
If you are sensitive to stimulants, I'm not sure how you'll react to mate. I have a hard time drinking a lot of coffee (jittery and angry), but not with mate. Others I have known some people with coffee sensitivity that have a problem drinking mate.Is this along the lines of what you are referring to? I'll elaborate a bit. I've had problems with feeling too speedy and also having 'anxiety' and I have no problem with mate. However, I do know some people who get too speedy and have 'anxiety' and they cannot drink mate because it makes things work for them.
What I have taken to doing when I hear conflicting info is trying something once or twice in very small amounts and see how my body and spirit are feeling and then decide whether or not to continue taking it.
As far as travelling is concerned...I tend to bring things with me when I travel or am out all day. I sometimes bring already made mate with me in a travel cup or thermos(it works the same for me regardless of temperature) or I carry some tea with me, along with a stainer (I don't use teaballs because they're too small. Mate exands a lot upon brewing.) Most cafes are good about giving out free hot water, if you have a cup with you or will sell it to you for the price of a cup of tea. Some cafes also sell mate, but it is much less stron. It's a bit of a pain, but after awhile I got used to it.
Hope this is helpful.
Geisha Girl
Posted by GeishaGirl on December 7, 2004, at 13:34:09
In reply to Re: Alternative Treatment for Asthma? » KaraS, posted by GeishaGirl on December 7, 2004, at 13:31:11
Hi Kara. The previous post I sent was for you. I think I may have gotten you screen name wrong when I said 'hi.' Sorry.
Geisha Girl
Posted by KaraS on December 9, 2004, at 17:24:04
In reply to Re: Alternative Treatment for Asthma?--Kara, posted by GeishaGirl on December 7, 2004, at 13:34:09
> Hi Kara. The previous post I sent was for you. I think I may have gotten you screen name wrong when I said 'hi.' Sorry.
>
> Geisha GirlNo problem. I don't remember where I read that info on yerba mate but I did a search and couldn't find anything respectable. I'm sure it's fine to use. Sorry to have scared you. Maybe I'll try it (but I don't usually like tea ... and I love coffee).
Take care,
Kara
Posted by jasmineneroli on December 11, 2004, at 23:32:59
In reply to Re: Alternative Treatment for Asthma? » GeishaGirl, posted by KaraS on December 9, 2004, at 17:24:04
Hi Kara:
I found this interesting abstract whilst researching the novel drug Tianeptine. I know it doesn't give you the answer you were looking for, but it does give some interesting info on plasma levels of serotonin and asthma...the two are definitely related.
"Studies have shown the levels of free serotonin in plasma are increased in symptomatic patients with asthma. In addition, the concentration of free serotonin in symptomatic children with asthma correlates positively with clinical status and negatively with pulmonary function (forced expiratory volume in 1 second [FEV1]). Thus, reducing the concentration of free serotonin in plasma may be useful in treating children with asthma. We studied the effectiveness of tianeptine in treating these patients. Tianeptine is the only drug known to be able to reduce the level of free serotonin in plasma and to enhance the uptake by platelets. Sixty-nine of the 82 children with asthma initially enrolled participated in this study. Children were randomized to receive tianeptine or placebo or both in a double-blind crossover trial. The trial lasted 52 weeks. Tianeptine provoked a dramatic and sudden decrease of both clinical rating and free serotonin plasma levels and an increase in pulmonary function."
(From xxx).If there is an alternative substance that works on 5HT1A and/ or ACCELERATES serotonin re-uptake (the 2 aspects of tianeptine)...it might duplicate tianeptine's effect.
If you cannot find an alternative treatment, Tianeptine might be a choice.
Take care,
Jas
Posted by KaraS on December 12, 2004, at 0:51:18
In reply to Re: Alternative Treatment for Asthma?, posted by jasmineneroli on December 11, 2004, at 23:32:59
> Hi Kara:
> I found this interesting abstract whilst researching the novel drug Tianeptine. I know it doesn't give you the answer you were looking for, but it does give some interesting info on plasma levels of serotonin and asthma...the two are definitely related.
> "Studies have shown the levels of free serotonin in plasma are increased in symptomatic patients with asthma. In addition, the concentration of free serotonin in symptomatic children with asthma correlates positively with clinical status and negatively with pulmonary function (forced expiratory volume in 1 second [FEV1]). Thus, reducing the concentration of free serotonin in plasma may be useful in treating children with asthma. We studied the effectiveness of tianeptine in treating these patients. Tianeptine is the only drug known to be able to reduce the level of free serotonin in plasma and to enhance the uptake by platelets. Sixty-nine of the 82 children with asthma initially enrolled participated in this study. Children were randomized to receive tianeptine or placebo or both in a double-blind crossover trial. The trial lasted 52 weeks. Tianeptine provoked a dramatic and sudden decrease of both clinical rating and free serotonin plasma levels and an increase in pulmonary function."
> (From xxx).
>
> If there is an alternative substance that works on 5HT1A and/ or ACCELERATES serotonin re-uptake (the 2 aspects of tianeptine)...it might duplicate tianeptine's effect.
> If you cannot find an alternative treatment, Tianeptine might be a choice.
> Take care,
> Jas
Thanks, that's interesting. I don't know of anything natural that would do that either. I know that SSRIs work the opposite way from Tianeptine but I am beginning to wonder if the fact that I'm no longer on an SSRI has something to do with the asthma I've been experiencing.It's funny that you should post this to me now because I was just going to post something to you about panic attacks. My asthma and high anxiety levels have recently caused me to have anxiety attacks as well. Larry has recommended B3 (niacinamide) in the past as an antihistamine and a relaxant. Today I tried it for the first time. I wasn't expecting much, to be honest, but it was very powerful stuff. I only took 250 mg. instead of the 500 mg. that is the maximum. It relaxed me so much and it made breathing easier (I was even able to breathe out of my nose somewhat). It really stopped the panic too. It made me somewhat tired though but still it was very worth it to cut the panic before it escalates. Of course once you get that high grade equine tryptophan, you may not need it!
Thanks for thinking of me,
Kara
Posted by jasmineneroli on December 12, 2004, at 22:21:31
In reply to Re: Alternative Treatment for Asthma? » jasmineneroli, posted by KaraS on December 12, 2004, at 0:51:18
Kara:
You're welcome!
And thanks for thinking of me, too!!
I started taking niacinimide (500mg) at night. Don't know yet if it's helping or not.
I've had a very stressful week, and responded with anxiety, but, I think, not as much as without meds, or trypt/niacinimide/magnesium. It's so hard to tell!!!
Warm wishes,
Jas
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 13, 2004, at 3:03:40
In reply to Re: Alternative Treatment for Asthma?, posted by jasmineneroli on December 11, 2004, at 23:32:59
> (From xxx).
Please don't use this site to exchange information that could be used to produce medication. Which the above site links to, though I understand you posted it for other reasons.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#illegal
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by jasmineneroli on December 13, 2004, at 20:46:53
In reply to Re: Alternative Treatment for Asthma?, posted by jasmineneroli on December 11, 2004, at 23:32:59
Sorry Dr. Bob - I didn't know that site could be accessed for finding out how to produce medication (eeeks!). I didn't look around the site, I just got there by way of a link, when searching for info on Tianeptine.
Thanks for the heads-up!
Jas
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 13, 2004, at 21:13:24
In reply to Re: Alternative Treatment for Asthma? » jasmineneroli, posted by jasmineneroli on December 13, 2004, at 20:46:53
Posted by KaraS on December 15, 2004, at 21:10:01
In reply to Re: Alternative Treatment for Asthma? » KaraS, posted by jasmineneroli on December 12, 2004, at 22:21:31
> Kara:
> You're welcome!
> And thanks for thinking of me, too!!
> I started taking niacinimide (500mg) at night. Don't know yet if it's helping or not.
> I've had a very stressful week, and responded with anxiety, but, I think, not as much as without meds, or trypt/niacinimide/magnesium. It's so hard to tell!!!
> Warm wishes,
> Jas
Jas,
Are you taking a good brand of the niacinamide? Is it in capsule form? I'm taking Twinlab's capsules and there's absolutely no mistaking the effect. I take 1/2 of a capsule and I feel like I've just taken a STRONG benzo. It's amazing (and, again, I am a person who rarely can tell the difference on any kind of supplement.) Also, I've been extremely stressed out myself but this still works like magic.Kara
Posted by jasmineneroli on December 16, 2004, at 1:26:28
In reply to Re: Niacinamide » jasmineneroli, posted by KaraS on December 15, 2004, at 21:10:01
Hi Kara:
I'm actually feeling a LOT better now :). Still subject to the same stressful situation, but feel a lot calmer. So much so, I completely forgot to take my a.m. dose of Klonopin!!! So I know SOMETHING is helping.
Until about a week ago I was taking Niacin at night with the tryptophan, but after reading here that niacinamide was preferred, I switched. I seem to wake up more clear-headed, but calm.
I think the tryptophan/magnesium/niacinamide has had a positive effect on the type of sleep I'm getting, for sure, so that in itself may be helping my anxiety! I'm going to start taking 250mg Niacin in the am and drop my Klonopin morning dose. That will give me a better idea about it's effect on anxiety.I take it in a caplet form, by a Canadian manufacturer called "Trophic". Sort of a mid-priced version. If I don't get a positive effect, I will definitely try a different brand.
Jas
Posted by KaraS on December 16, 2004, at 22:09:43
In reply to Re: Niacinamide » KaraS, posted by jasmineneroli on December 16, 2004, at 1:26:28
> Hi Kara:
> I'm actually feeling a LOT better now :). Still subject to the same stressful situation, but feel a lot calmer. So much so, I completely forgot to take my a.m. dose of Klonopin!!! So I know SOMETHING is helping.
> Until about a week ago I was taking Niacin at night with the tryptophan, but after reading here that niacinamide was preferred, I switched. I seem to wake up more clear-headed, but calm.
> I think the tryptophan/magnesium/niacinamide has had a positive effect on the type of sleep I'm getting, for sure, so that in itself may be helping my anxiety! I'm going to start taking 250mg Niacin in the am and drop my Klonopin morning dose. That will give me a better idea about it's effect on anxiety.
>
> I take it in a caplet form, by a Canadian manufacturer called "Trophic". Sort of a mid-priced version. If I don't get a positive effect, I will definitely try a different brand.
> Jas
Glad to hear that you're doing so much better. I'm doing better anxiety-wise too. I still have a long way to go with the depression though. One thing at a time, I guess.Take care,
Kara
Posted by Ed O`Flaherty on December 18, 2004, at 8:08:15
In reply to Re: Alternative Treatment for Asthma?, posted by GeishaGirl on December 3, 2004, at 9:10:17
I would recommend omega-3 fish oil for asthma,as it has been shown in recent work in Australia to be useful.It takes a few months to work though as it gradually coats all the cells in the body with the proper covering of omega-3 instead of omega-6.Use olive oil instead of vegetable oil for cooking.Fish oil also makes anti-inflammatory eicosanoids which reduce inflammation in the lungs and blood vessels for example.
Posted by KaraS on December 18, 2004, at 16:59:47
In reply to Re: Alternative Treatment for Asthma?, posted by Ed O`Flaherty on December 18, 2004, at 8:08:15
> I would recommend omega-3 fish oil for asthma,as it has been shown in recent work in Australia to be useful.It takes a few months to work though as it gradually coats all the cells in the body with the proper covering of omega-3 instead of omega-6.Use olive oil instead of vegetable oil for cooking.Fish oil also makes anti-inflammatory eicosanoids which reduce inflammation in the lungs and blood vessels for example.
I already take 1 gram per day but I think I need quite a bit more. I'll be increasing my dosage ASAP. Just wish it didn't take so long...Thanks so much,
Kara
Posted by KaraS on December 18, 2004, at 18:50:19
In reply to Re: Alternative Treatment for Asthma?, posted by Ed O`Flaherty on December 18, 2004, at 8:08:15
Also, in the past I've taken Omega 3s and developed cycstic acne from it. I tried flax seed oil and the same thing happened. I posted something to that effect here a few months ago and several other people replied that they had the same thing happen to them. At any rate, I've been afraid to increase the small dosage I'm on currently (though I have a feeling that this brand I'm taking now might not cause that problem).
However, recently I remembered that many years ago a holistic doctor had me try some for a skin condition. It was supposedly high quality stuff that I bought directly from her. I took several grams per day without a problem.
Can you think of any reason why the Omega 3's might cause problems with acne? Could brand purity be an issue?
Thanks again,
Kara
Posted by sergio on January 13, 2005, at 14:40:25
In reply to Re: Alternative Treatment for Asthma? - Also » Ed O`Flaherty, posted by KaraS on December 18, 2004, at 18:50:19
Hello all, I noticed this discussion by typing "serotonin + asthma" in Google. I think my experience could be of interest to some parties here.
Last year I started withdrawal from Paroxetine (Paxil, Seroxat), when I reached critical stage with zaps and other weird staff I stared coughing a lot. This was May and I thought my mild hay fever is taking an unusual new shape. Doctor prescribed new antihistamines and I started taking Omega-3 fish oils to ease off withdrawal from Paroxetine, coz I read a book on how omega-3 is helpful for depression. In July I was ok, then in August cough came back and I started wheezing. I went back to the doctors and was given Salbutamol (Ventolin) inhaler, and in a month time I was using it 4 times day, coughing horribly all the time. I came to conclusion that Salbutamol exacerbated the asthma (I could be wrong) and started doing acupuncture and Chinese herbs, it seemed to work and I was getting better.
Then in November asthma got worse, I increased acupuncture - it started getting gradually better, but then in the new year a minor flu sparked asthma really big time, I can hardly walk now and nearly lost it. Now I am taking steroid inhaler, steroid tablets, salbutamol at least twice a day. All this time (since June) I have been taking Omega-3 about 2 gram of EPA (5-7) capsules depending on the brand.I can definitely say Omega-3 doesn't help much with asthma (at least for me). I would recommend to anyone to be careful with asthma - it could escalate very quickly.
I wonder if anybody had a similar experience with stopping SSRIs and developing asthma? I think there must be a link. I am 37, never had any asthma before (neither anybody in the family had it).
Thanx
Sergio
Posted by Ed O`Flaherty on January 13, 2005, at 17:20:54
In reply to Asthma, SSRIs and omega-3, posted by sergio on January 13, 2005, at 14:40:25
> Hello all, I noticed this discussion by typing "serotonin + asthma" in Google. I think my experience could be of interest to some parties here.
>
> Last year I started withdrawal from Paroxetine (Paxil, Seroxat), when I reached critical stage with zaps and other weird staff I stared coughing a lot. This was May and I thought my mild hay fever is taking an unusual new shape. Doctor prescribed new antihistamines and I started taking Omega-3 fish oils to ease off withdrawal from Paroxetine, coz I read a book on how omega-3 is helpful for depression. In July I was ok, then in August cough came back and I started wheezing. I went back to the doctors and was given Salbutamol (Ventolin) inhaler, and in a month time I was using it 4 times day, coughing horribly all the time. I came to conclusion that Salbutamol exacerbated the asthma (I could be wrong) and started doing acupuncture and Chinese herbs, it seemed to work and I was getting better.
> Then in November asthma got worse, I increased acupuncture - it started getting gradually better, but then in the new year a minor flu sparked asthma really big time, I can hardly walk now and nearly lost it. Now I am taking steroid inhaler, steroid tablets, salbutamol at least twice a day. All this time (since June) I have been taking Omega-3 about 2 gram of EPA (5-7) capsules depending on the brand.
>
> I can definitely say Omega-3 doesn't help much with asthma (at least for me). I would recommend to anyone to be careful with asthma - it could escalate very quickly.
>
> I wonder if anybody had a similar experience with stopping SSRIs and developing asthma? I think there must be a link. I am 37, never had any asthma before (neither anybody in the family had it).
>
> Thanx
> SergioAsthma can start at any time of life and the connection with SSRIs here is probably a red herring.I am surprised though that you are on steroid tablets already-the steroid inhalers plus Ventolin plus perhaps Singulair tablets plus salmetrol can reduce the demands for steroid tablets to a low level in most cases.An asthma attack is a serious business-that is for sure.Omega-3 only helps a little in asthma.There is no magic wand.Moving to an area far away from where you live at present may occasinally be very successful but not 100% either.
>
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