![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by green willow on January 6, 2005, at 14:27:43
I am interested in learning exactly what the substance is in dairy products that causes inflamation in some people. Someone told me it was the milkfat, and if that is true, then drinking skim milk and non-fat yogurt should not be a problem. However, from personal experience I have not found that to be the case.
Posted by Larry Hoover on January 6, 2005, at 18:12:25
In reply to need info on dairy and inflamation, posted by green willow on January 6, 2005, at 14:27:43
> I am interested in learning exactly what the substance is in dairy products that causes inflamation in some people. Someone told me it was the milkfat, and if that is true, then drinking skim milk and non-fat yogurt should not be a problem. However, from personal experience I have not found that to be the case.
It's not usually milkfat that is the problem. I suppose it could be, but then we'd think of it as a butter problem?
Most likely, it has something to do with the milk protein casein. One theory is that differences in the way protein is digested lead to different protein fragments being created. A large protein like casein could be broken down billions of different ways, just depending on which bonds are broken first. This breaking down, called hydrolysis, is usually done by enzymes. The fragments that are left are probably what is irritating.
The theories are: A) certain people tend to create particularly irritating fragments; B) certain people are particularly sensitive to the irritating fragments; C) a combination of the two.
One candidate for such an irritant is called beta-casomorphin. That is geek speak for the second identified casein fragment that acts like morphine. By incidentally creating a protein fragment (a peptide) that activates opioid receptors in gut cells, that initiates a cascade of inflammatory/paralytic processes. If the peptide is in high enough concentrations, or encountered recurrently before healing can occur, that might explain why some people can tolerate a bit of dairy once in a while, but not a lot at one sitting, nor a bit every day.
It's just a theory, but it seems to fit the facts.
Lar
Posted by green willow on January 7, 2005, at 20:43:12
In reply to Re: need info on dairy and inflamation » green willow, posted by Larry Hoover on January 6, 2005, at 18:12:25
Thanks for the info. Casein is present in all dairy products isn't it? Or is it removed by any certain processes?
Posted by Larry Hoover on January 7, 2005, at 22:25:20
In reply to Re: need info on dairy and inflamation » Larry Hoover, posted by green willow on January 7, 2005, at 20:43:12
> Thanks for the info. Casein is present in all dairy products isn't it? Or is it removed by any certain processes?
The only dairy products it's not in is whey, which is the leftovers from cheesemaking.
There are oral enzyme tablets which are supposed to ensure full digestion of milk proteins. Kirkman Labs sells them.
Lar
Posted by green willow on January 8, 2005, at 14:52:26
In reply to Re: need info on dairy and inflamation » green willow, posted by Larry Hoover on January 7, 2005, at 22:25:20
Do the oral enzyme tablets do something other than address lactose intolerance? Do they do something to make it so the individual does not experience inflamation from from dairy? Do you know if there are any dairy products made from just whey? Does whey contain calcium and lactose? I really appreciate your info. Thanks!
> > Thanks for the info. Casein is present in all dairy products isn't it? Or is it removed by any certain processes?
>
> The only dairy products it's not in is whey, which is the leftovers from cheesemaking.
>
> There are oral enzyme tablets which are supposed to ensure full digestion of milk proteins. Kirkman Labs sells them.
>
> Lar
>
Posted by Darwin on January 9, 2005, at 4:01:26
In reply to need info on dairy and inflamation, posted by green willow on January 6, 2005, at 14:27:43
> I am interested in learning exactly what the substance is in dairy products that causes inflamation in some people. Someone told me it was the milkfat, and if that is true, then drinking skim milk and non-fat yogurt should not be a problem. However, from personal experience I have not found that to be the case.
It probably varies from person to person but in my case it is milkfat which causes inflammation through my digestive tract. The main symptom is pruritus (anal itching). Butter and cream cheese are major offenders but suprisingly, hard cheeses (cheddar for example) do not seem to cause a problem.
I may also be sensitive to casein but the symptoms seem to be more of a mental nature such as fatigue, brain fog, or depression.
Posted by green willow on January 9, 2005, at 22:16:18
In reply to Re: need info on dairy and inflamation » green willow, posted by Darwin on January 9, 2005, at 4:01:26
Darwin,
I mean inflamation such as rheumatoid inflamation. Are you affected that way or are you affected primarily in the digestive tract? Thanks, Green Willow
Posted by Regis Harold on January 10, 2005, at 0:24:22
In reply to Re: need info on dairy and inflamation » green willow, posted by Darwin on January 9, 2005, at 4:01:26
For years I've been dealing with brain fog, depression, and fatigue, and I am beginning to believe that it may be a result of what I am eating. On multiple occasions I have gone to a primary care physician (different ones each time) and explained the situation: soon after eating I can become tired and fatigued, have difficulty concentrating, and experience impairment of both my short-term and long-term memory. Each time, they suggest that I take a blood sugar test to see if I have diabetes, and each time my blood sugar levels come back normal. I don’t believe that I have diabetes, but I am convinced that my troubles are related to the food I eat.
After doing some researching, I believe that my symptoms largely resemble those described by Allergic Tension Fatigue Syndrome (http://www.diagnose-me.com/cond/C74565.html). However, this is apparently a somewhat controversial topic, and diagnosing the foods that one might have a reaction to is supposed to be somewhat difficult.
Regarding the casein, I suspect that I might be sensitive to the proteins in milk as well as eggs. Just a few hours ago I had an English muffin with butter, and I have been feeling tired and finding it difficult to concentrate since. The same goes with eggs. After eating eggs for breakfast the other day, within minutes, my eyes started to feel heavy, I became lethargic, and my focus was shot for the rest of the day. On that particular day, I could really do nothing more than read and sleep, and even that was difficult.
I did a search through the archives here and I notice that there hasn’t been a whole lot of discussion regarding this on here. Has anyone else ever heard of this or suspect that the depression they may be experiencing is a result of their diet? If so, other than avoidance of the foods (which is hard for me because I don’t know what all the foods might be), are there other ways of treating this through supplements – perhaps through enzymes or anti-histimine/anti-inflammatory supps? Any suggestions?
> > I am interested in learning exactly what the substance is in dairy products that causes inflamation in some people. Someone told me it was the milkfat, and if that is true, then drinking skim milk and non-fat yogurt should not be a problem. However, from personal experience I have not found that to be the case.
>
> It probably varies from person to person but in my case it is milkfat which causes inflammation through my digestive tract. The main symptom is pruritus (anal itching). Butter and cream cheese are major offenders but suprisingly, hard cheeses (cheddar for example) do not seem to cause a problem.
>
> I may also be sensitive to casein but the symptoms seem to be more of a mental nature such as fatigue, brain fog, or depression.
>
>
Posted by Darwin on January 10, 2005, at 16:29:05
In reply to Re: need info on dairy and inflamation » Darwin, posted by green willow on January 9, 2005, at 22:16:18
> Darwin,
> I mean inflamation such as rheumatoid inflamation. Are you affected that way or are you affected primarily in the digestive tract? Thanks, Green WillowI have had conditions such as knee cap pain, lower back pain, and recently, shoulder bursitis. Milk fat may aggravate those conditions but I have never noticed a connection.
Have you considered eliminating dairy products completely for a couple of weeks to determine whether they are causing your inflammation problems? If you try this, be careful with dairy substitutes. Many of them contain casein derivatives such as 'sodium caseinate' and should be avoided.
Darwin
Posted by Darwin on January 10, 2005, at 19:23:43
In reply to Brain fog from the food you eat? » Darwin, posted by Regis Harold on January 10, 2005, at 0:24:22
Food allergies, sensitivities, or intolerances are certainly worth investigating as a cause or partial cause of your brain fog, depression, and fatigue.
I just performed a search at Amazon.com on the terms 'food allergies fatigue' which resulted in 90 related books. I recommend that you read up on the subject and become your own investigator by simply eliminating foods you suspect may be causing a problem and noting the results. I am skeptical of the value of expensive testing at allergy clinics. Good Luck. Darwin
Posted by green willow on January 11, 2005, at 12:45:23
In reply to Re: need info on dairy and inflamation » green willow, posted by Darwin on January 10, 2005, at 16:29:05
Darwin, Specifically I had such severe inflamation in the soft tissues of my feet (heel area) that I could not even walk, also in my fingers. I did stop dairy and the results were dramatic with much improvement. Since then I have gotten the DX rheumatoid arthritis. However, prior to stopping dairy, I had been consuming only skim milk, so I doubted it was the fat content. But my physical therapist tells me that it is the fat. I am trying to keep a little lactose in my diet so that I don't become lactose intolerant, so that is why I am hoping to find the actual dairy culprit for rheumatoid inflam. I am willing to bet it is the casien, so that is why I am wondering about ways to get a little lactose without throwing my situation off-balance. Hope you get to the source of your ailments. May be related to foods. Thanks, Green Willow
> > Darwin,
> > I mean inflamation such as rheumatoid inflamation. Are you affected that way or are you affected primarily in the digestive tract? Thanks, Green Willow
>
> I have had conditions such as knee cap pain, lower back pain, and recently, shoulder bursitis. Milk fat may aggravate those conditions but I have never noticed a connection.
>
> Have you considered eliminating dairy products completely for a couple of weeks to determine whether they are causing your inflammation problems? If you try this, be careful with dairy substitutes. Many of them contain casein derivatives such as 'sodium caseinate' and should be avoided.
>
> Darwin
>
>
>
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Alternative | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.