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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by SLS on January 25, 2005, at 17:24:52
This is old news, but I thought it might reinforce the findings of others.
I think it is important to take into consideration that no causal relationship has been established. However, it can't hurt to increase folate and reduce homocysteine.
- Scott
-----------------------------
Journal of PsychopharmacologyPublished in Association with:
British Association for Psychopharmacology
Editors David J Nutt University of Bristol, UK
Pierre Blier University of Ottawa, Canada
Volume 19 Issue 01 - Publication Date: 01/2005
Treatment of depression
Alec Coppen and Christina Bolander-Gouaille , MRC Neuropsychiatric Research Laboratory, Epsom, Surrey, UK;Pharmacist, Helsingborg, SwedenWe review the findings in major depression of a low plasma and particularly red cell folate, but also of low vitamin B&#sub12; status. Both low folate and low vitamin B&#sub12; status have been found in studies of depressive patients, and an association between depression and low levels of the two vitamins is found in studies of the general population. Low plasma or serum folate has also been found in patients with recurrent mood disorders treated by lithium. A link between depression and low folate has similalrly been found in patients with alcoholism. It is interesting to note that Hong Kong and Taiwan populations with traditional Chinese diets (rich in folate), including patients with major depression, have high serum folate concentrations. However, these countries have very low life time rates of major depression. Low folate levels are furthermore linked to a poor response to antidepressants, and treatment with folic acid is shown to improve response to antidepressants. A recent study also suggests that high vitamin B&#sub12; status may be associated with better treatment outcome. Folate and vitamin B&#sub12; are major determinants of one-carbon metabolism, in which S-adenosylmethionine (SAM) is formed. SAM donates methyl groups that are crucial for neurological function. Increased plasma homocysteine is a functional marker of both folate and vitamin B&#sub12; deficiency. Increased homocysteine levels are found in depressive patients. In a large population study from Norway increased plasma homocysteine was associated with increased risk of depression but not anxiety. There is now substantial evidence of a common decrease in serum/red blood cell folate, serum vitamin B&#sub12; and an increase in plasma homocysteine in depression. Furthermore, the MTHFR C677T polymorphism that impairs the homocysteine metabolism is shown to be overrepresented among depressive patients, which strengthens the association. On the basis of current data, we suggest that oral doses of both folic acid (800g daily) and vitamin B&#sub12; (1mg daily) should be tried to improve treatment outcome in depression.
Posted by sabre on January 27, 2005, at 16:31:30
In reply to Folate and homocysteine in depression, posted by SLS on January 25, 2005, at 17:24:52
Hi Scott
Do you take folic acid and B12 supplements and if so, do they help?
sabre
Posted by SLS on January 27, 2005, at 20:34:17
In reply to Re: Folate and homocysteine in depression, posted by sabre on January 27, 2005, at 16:31:30
> Hi Scott
> Do you take folic acid and B12 supplements and if so, do they help?
> sabreHi Sabre.
I take a Centrum in the morning. I've been doing it for years. However, I don't remember ever trying megadoses of the stuff. I'd like to get a little more input before committing to something like this. I have been very disappointed by using vitamins and supplements in the past.
The Harvard study seem pursuasive enough. They isolate low serum folate levels as being associated with a diminished response to antidepressants. I'll give it serious thought.
- Scott
Posted by KaraS on January 27, 2005, at 22:30:24
In reply to Re: Folate and homocysteine in depression, posted by SLS on January 27, 2005, at 20:34:17
> > Hi Scott
> > Do you take folic acid and B12 supplements and if so, do they help?
> > sabre
>
> Hi Sabre.
>
> I take a Centrum in the morning. I've been doing it for years. However, I don't remember ever trying megadoses of the stuff. I'd like to get a little more input before committing to something like this. I have been very disappointed by using vitamins and supplements in the past.
>
> The Harvard study seem pursuasive enough. They isolate low serum folate levels as being associated with a diminished response to antidepressants. I'll give it serious thought.
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15323594
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15323595
>
>
> - Scott
Thanks. I think I'll start taking the folate and B12 again. Can't hurt.K
Posted by SLS on January 28, 2005, at 6:41:02
In reply to Re: Folate and homocysteine in depression » SLS, posted by KaraS on January 27, 2005, at 22:30:24
Hi.
> > The Harvard study seem pursuasive enough. They isolate low serum folate levels as being associated with a diminished response to antidepressants. I'll give it serious thought.
> >
> > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15323594
> >
> > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15323595> Thanks. I think I'll start taking the folate and B12 again. Can't hurt.
How much folate do you plan to take? How high have you seen other people go?Thanks.
- Scott
Posted by KaraS on January 29, 2005, at 0:35:32
In reply to Re: Folate and homocysteine in depression, posted by SLS on January 28, 2005, at 6:41:02
> Hi.
>
> > > The Harvard study seem pursuasive enough. They isolate low serum folate levels as being associated with a diminished response to antidepressants. I'll give it serious thought.
> > >
> > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15323594
> > >
> > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15323595
>
> > Thanks. I think I'll start taking the folate and B12 again. Can't hurt.
>
>
> How much folate do you plan to take? How high have you seen other people go?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> - Scott
Hi,
I took the amount mentioned in your original post - 800 folate and 1 gram of sublingual B12 - and would start on that again. I took that amount because Dr. Priscilla Slagle recommends it in her book. I don't know of anyone who has taken more than that. Larry posted a lot about this topic recently. He may have more to add about dosage.Also, "Raybakes" used to post a lot about homocysteine if you feel up to reading more about it.
You don't have much to lose by trying it. Even if it doesn't help much with depression, it's good for your overall health. Make sure that you get methylcobalamin rather than the lesser absorbed cyanocobalamin though.
K
Posted by SLS on January 29, 2005, at 13:07:06
In reply to Re: Folate and homocysteine in depression » SLS, posted by KaraS on January 29, 2005, at 0:35:32
Thanks, Kara.
:-)
I think I'll go ahead and try the folate at 800mg.
- Scott
> Hi,
> I took the amount mentioned in your original post - 800 folate and 1 gram of sublingual B12 - and would start on that again. I took that amount because Dr. Priscilla Slagle recommends it in her book. I don't know of anyone who has taken more than that. Larry posted a lot about this topic recently. He may have more to add about dosage.
>
> Also, "Raybakes" used to post a lot about homocysteine if you feel up to reading more about it.
>
> You don't have much to lose by trying it. Even if it doesn't help much with depression, it's good for your overall health. Make sure that you get methylcobalamin rather than the lesser absorbed cyanocobalamin though.
>
>
> K
Posted by KaraS on January 29, 2005, at 15:27:43
In reply to Re: Folate and homocysteine in depression » KaraS, posted by SLS on January 29, 2005, at 13:07:06
Scott,
I think you need to balance it with the B12 too.
Good luck!
K
> Thanks, Kara.
>
> :-)
>
> I think I'll go ahead and try the folate at 800mg.
>
>
> - Scott
>
>
>
> > Hi,
> > I took the amount mentioned in your original post - 800 folate and 1 gram of sublingual B12 - and would start on that again. I took that amount because Dr. Priscilla Slagle recommends it in her book. I don't know of anyone who has taken more than that. Larry posted a lot about this topic recently. He may have more to add about dosage.
> >
> > Also, "Raybakes" used to post a lot about homocysteine if you feel up to reading more about it.
> >
> > You don't have much to lose by trying it. Even if it doesn't help much with depression, it's good for your overall health. Make sure that you get methylcobalamin rather than the lesser absorbed cyanocobalamin though.
> >
> >
> > K
>
>
Posted by Larry Hoover on February 14, 2005, at 16:24:37
In reply to Re: Folate and homocysteine in depression » KaraS, posted by SLS on January 29, 2005, at 13:07:06
> Thanks, Kara.
>
> :-)
>
> I think I'll go ahead and try the folate at 800mg.
>
>
> - ScottI'm sure it was just a slip of the finger, but that's mcg (micrograms), not mg (miligrams) folate.
Lar
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