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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sabre on February 11, 2005, at 14:59:10
Hi
Whatever I took a few years ago couldn't have been glutamine as my experiments with it in the last few days have yielded a very different response.
I took 2gm three evenings ago.
Didn't sleep well that night. Woke up feeling wired. Went for a run and felt like I could have gone on for hours. Felt alert, hyper and energetic. Able to read and concentrate. No appetite. Didn't sleep well. Unable to relax.
Next morning still wired, euphoric. Took another 1gm to test the stuff at work. Also took 1/2 tablet of Propanolol as I felt I was bouncing off the wall. Felt on edge socially and the panic started to break through a few times. Didn't suffer my usual beta blocker tiredness and stupidity.
This morning the body started to feel fatigued but the brain is still wired.So...does this mean that glutamine is converting to glutamate causing excitation in the brain and possibly the conversion from glutamate to GABA is faulty???
What happens to excess glutatmate in the brain if it can't turn to GABA? Can it cross the bloodbrain barrier and be reconverted to glutamine? Or does it go round and round the brain until your neurones fry??
I feel like my head is going to melt down!!!
sabre
Posted by Jakeman on February 11, 2005, at 21:51:29
In reply to Glutamine = speed??, posted by sabre on February 11, 2005, at 14:59:10
> Hi
> Whatever I took a few years ago couldn't have been glutamine as my experiments with it in the last few days have yielded a very different response.
> I took 2gm three evenings ago.
> Didn't sleep well that night. Woke up feeling wired. Went for a run and felt like I could have gone on for hours. Felt alert, hyper and energetic. Able to read and concentrate. No appetite. Didn't sleep well. Unable to relax.
> Next morning still wired, euphoric. Took another 1gm to test the stuff at work. Also took 1/2 tablet of Propanolol as I felt I was bouncing off the wall. Felt on edge socially and the panic started to break through a few times. Didn't suffer my usual beta blocker tiredness and stupidity.
> This morning the body started to feel fatigued but the brain is still wired.
>
> So...does this mean that glutamine is converting to glutamate causing excitation in the brain and possibly the conversion from glutamate to GABA is faulty???
>
> What happens to excess glutatmate in the brain if it can't turn to GABA? Can it cross the bloodbrain barrier and be reconverted to glutamine? Or does it go round and round the brain until your neurones fry??
> I feel like my head is going to melt down!!!
> sabre
>
Sabre, thanks for your report. I wish I could answer your questions but I can only give you my experience. I take 500 mg morning and another 500 mg in afternoon. I've found, overall, it helps with my afternoon brain fog, fatique, and anxiety. I feel that with glutamine I'm more apt to exercise and have less carb and alchohol cravings. Maybe that's why so many bodybuilders use it in large amounts.I've never taken it at night. I do suspect that it could be helping with possible hypoglycemia (doctors aren't interested). But I've read that it does play a role in glucose metabolism, among many other things. I've found it's difficult to draw many conclusions from the literature because of the various complex ways that it affects the body and the conflicting reports. I'd like some of our drs. or chemists to weigh in on this subject.
here's a pretty informative article:
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag99/sep99-report3.html-Jake
Posted by sabre on February 12, 2005, at 3:52:26
In reply to Re: Glutamine = speed?? » sabre, posted by Jakeman on February 11, 2005, at 21:51:29
Thanks Jakeman
I think your dosage of glutamine might be preferable! Two gms was probably way too much.
My brain didn't fry and by mid morning was close to normal.Your article was very good. Interestingly there was a comment on ketosis and epilepsy. It mentioned different reasons as to why it works compared with what I read today. When I looked for methods of enhancing the conversion of glutamate to GABA I found ketosis was mentioned. The thought of having to eat a diet low in carbs and high in fats just doesn't appeal.
Useful drugs were shown on this site:
http://www.vcu-cme.org/gaba/poster.pdf
The illustrations were great.Another site mentioned taurine as being very important in the regulation of the conversion.
The last site I found concerning glutamate:
http://www.psychiatry.ufl.edu/Newsletters/Content/Krystal.pdf
mentioned that NE and DA modulators affect the glutamate cell release of GABA.
So does that mean that taking Tyrosine with Glutamine could be useful?Thanks
sabre
Posted by Jakeman on February 12, 2005, at 18:26:14
In reply to Re: Glutamine = speed??, posted by sabre on February 12, 2005, at 3:52:26
Good articles...illustrations always help my muddled brain understand things. I do take tyrosine with glutamine occasionally...for me it has an activating effect on those days when I've lost all motivation and drive.
-J>> Useful drugs were shown on this site:
> http://www.vcu-cme.org/gaba/poster.pdf
> The illustrations were great.
>
> Another site mentioned taurine as being very important in the regulation of the conversion.
>
> The last site I found concerning glutamate:
> http://www.psychiatry.ufl.edu/Newsletters/Content/Krystal.pdf
> mentioned that NE and DA modulators affect the glutamate cell release of GABA.
> So does that mean that taking Tyrosine with Glutamine could be useful?
>
> Thanks
> sabre
Posted by Larry Hoover on February 14, 2005, at 7:54:57
In reply to Glutamine = speed??, posted by sabre on February 11, 2005, at 14:59:10
> Hi
> Whatever I took a few years ago couldn't have been glutamine as my experiments with it in the last few days have yielded a very different response.
> I took 2gm three evenings ago.
> Didn't sleep well that night. Woke up feeling wired. Went for a run and felt like I could have gone on for hours. Felt alert, hyper and energetic. Able to read and concentrate. No appetite. Didn't sleep well. Unable to relax.
> Next morning still wired, euphoric. Took another 1gm to test the stuff at work. Also took 1/2 tablet of Propanolol as I felt I was bouncing off the wall. Felt on edge socially and the panic started to break through a few times. Didn't suffer my usual beta blocker tiredness and stupidity.
> This morning the body started to feel fatigued but the brain is still wired.
>
> So...does this mean that glutamine is converting to glutamate causing excitation in the brain and possibly the conversion from glutamate to GABA is faulty???
>
> What happens to excess glutatmate in the brain if it can't turn to GABA? Can it cross the bloodbrain barrier and be reconverted to glutamine? Or does it go round and round the brain until your neurones fry??
> I feel like my head is going to melt down!!!
> sabreConsidering the low dose (20 grams is not unheard of), I suspect you may have a blood-sugar regulatory problem....hypoglycemia. But I can't imagine that would last as long as you described. No more than an hour, I would expect.
Have you considered that the glutamine you have might be mislabelled? That it might be something else entirely?
I don't have any other ideas about what transpired. The combination of taurine and glutamine may well be something to consider.
Lar
Posted by MoparFan91 on February 15, 2005, at 21:27:19
In reply to Re: Glutamine = speed?? » sabre, posted by Larry Hoover on February 14, 2005, at 7:54:57
George Eby on his Magnesium website says that Glutamine is evil when it comes to depression. He said that it's an excitotoxin and that it tends to worsen depression.
Posted by sabre on February 16, 2005, at 0:36:55
In reply to Re: Glutamine = speed?? » sabre, posted by Larry Hoover on February 14, 2005, at 7:54:57
Thanks Larry. I always appreciate your comments.
I have had hypoglycaemia problems off and on -usually when I'm under more physical or mental stress. Work is doing it to me at the moment. The threat of weekly presentations has arisen and I'm not coping.I found 500mg a lot better. It is mentally stimulating but in a hard brittle way.
I just want a nice simple solution to the draining anticipatory anxiety, churning gut, the mental white out, loss of words and the backlash of fatigue and burnout after.
I have ordered theanine. I tried a little Mg taurate. Is this as a effective as straight taurine?
My husband tried the glutamine and it did absolutely nothing to him!
Thanks Larry.
sabre
Posted by Jakeman on February 16, 2005, at 0:40:17
In reply to Re: Glutamine = speed??, posted by MoparFan91 on February 15, 2005, at 21:27:19
Hi Mopar: Do you mind posting the quote or url? There are many varied opinions about glutamine, some people take multiple grams a day with no apparent ill effect,(many report numerous benefits) other reports say to completely stay away from it. In terms of what helps with depression, I suspect it depends on the person and whether or not you have a deficency.
thanks- Jake
Posted by sabre on February 16, 2005, at 0:49:11
In reply to Re: Glutamine = speed??, posted by MoparFan91 on February 15, 2005, at 21:27:19
Hi Mopar
I wondered about glutamine too because it is a precursor to glutamate which is excitatory but glutamate is converted to GABA in the brain and that's inhibitory.To make it more complicated I found out on Babble that areas of the brain can be both overactive and underactive in depression (and presumably anxiety). I don't think it is very simple! Apparently NA and dopamine get in on the act too, regulating the conversion. As does taurine, which Larry suggested.
I didn't find glutamine had a depressing effect on me at all. At a higher dose of 2g I felt euphoric at times. I don't know whether that would be repeatable because I only tried it once.
I find I get more and more amazed at how complex the whole thing is and how varied people's reactions are to chemicals.
sabre
Posted by MoparFan91 on February 16, 2005, at 1:47:14
In reply to Re: Glutamine = speed?? » MoparFan91, posted by Jakeman on February 16, 2005, at 0:40:17
> Hi Mopar: Do you mind posting the quote or url? There are many varied opinions about glutamine, some people take multiple grams a day with no apparent ill effect,(many report numerous benefits) other reports say to completely stay away from it. In terms of what helps with depression, I suspect it depends on the person and whether or not you have a deficency.
> thanks- JakeThe URL for that site is:
www.coldcure.com/html/dep.htmlQuoted text from site:
"Aspartate, glutamate, and glutamine, among other amino acids, are excitatory. They are antagonistic to the functions of taurine, alanine, GABA and glycine according to a contemporary review of taurine by Richard Smayda, D.O.. Consequently, Carol is correct, taurine does detoxify glutamates. Dr. Smayda's review is of considerable importance to all of us interested in magnesium and depression. Dr. Smayda points out that major depression is marked by alterations in serum levels of the excitatory amino acids glutamate and aspartate, accompanied by deviations in levels of taurine, serine, and glycine as well. In patients who did not respond to treatment with classical SSRI antidepressants (treatment-resistant depression - like what we are discussing in this page), characteristically lower serum levels of taurine, aspartate, asparagine, serine and threonine, with a steep increase in glutamine, were noted. Consequently, magnesium taurate is the preferred forms of magnesium for treating benefiting "structure or function" of the body or the "well-being" depression."
Posted by ravenstorm on February 17, 2005, at 11:21:45
In reply to Glutamine = speed??, posted by sabre on February 11, 2005, at 14:59:10
glutamate can make the bipolar manic.
Posted by sabre on February 18, 2005, at 2:51:55
In reply to Re: Glutamine = speed??, posted by ravenstorm on February 17, 2005, at 11:21:45
Hello Ravenstorm
I must admit the way some of these medications and supplements have made me tip backwards and forwards between depression and being hyped I have wondered but that's kind of artificial, isn't it?How do you define BP?
I just feel like if I could eliminate SA, I'd be the sanest person on the planet!...?
sabre
Posted by TamaraJ on February 20, 2005, at 17:16:06
In reply to Glutamine = speed??, posted by sabre on February 11, 2005, at 14:59:10
Last summer, when I was taking Effexor, I trialed both L-Tyrosine and L-Glutamine (concurrently) to try to combat AD-induced fatigue and apathy. At first I felt energetic and motivated, but, around the two-week mark, I became extremely agitated. One day, I was practically freaking out - I felt wired, jumpy, shaky, and like I was losing my mind. It was a scary and extremely uncomfortable feeling. Since I was taking both L-Tyrosine and L-Glutamine, I don't know which one caused the agitation, but I chose to stop both. I may try again, one at a time to start with and smaller doses, at some point.
Tamara
Posted by jakeman on February 20, 2005, at 22:53:16
In reply to Re: Glutamine = speed?? » MoparFan91, posted by Jakeman on February 16, 2005, at 0:40:17
Posted by sabre on February 20, 2005, at 23:54:46
In reply to Re: Glutamine = speed?? » sabre, posted by TamaraJ on February 20, 2005, at 17:16:06
Hi Tamara
I really don't know if this is the case for everyone but the tyrosine has never made me feel jittery or anxious. It does vary in its strength of effect and I do find I have to go on and off it.
The glutamine gave me the wired, hyped feeling especially at over the 1g mark. I took it on Saturday (around 800mg without the Tyrosine) and didn't get the same boost of energy. I felt a hyper irritation instead.
I suspect everyone's reactions must be different.
Try the tyrosine by itself and see what you think.sabre
Posted by TamaraJ on February 21, 2005, at 10:26:50
In reply to Re: Glutamine = speed??-Tamara, posted by sabre on February 20, 2005, at 23:54:46
Thanks Sabre. Ya, I am pretty sure that it was the L-Glutamine that caused the severe agitation. Now that I think about it, when I first started the aminos, I had used only L-Tyrosine for the first few days. As for now, my doctor has prescribed Provigil for me to help with the apathy and lack of motivation. I think, once I get back up to my baseline though, I will try the aminos again, maybe in a more structured way and in consultation with a naturopath or something. Most family doctors and pdocs don't seem to be up on this stuff or sufficiently interested I think. (There I go probably generalizing again. Sorry.)
Tamara
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