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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Franz on May 21, 2005, at 9:59:56
Hello, I need to increase serotonin levels and drugs have not been much of a success for me. S. J. Wort was not good either.
I know that tryptophan and 5HTP are precursors and could be used.
5HTP seems to be better for daytime use because it does not compete with transporters (if I understood well).
Both are expensive. can you recommend doses, timing, etc.?.Also, I read that vitamin B6 helps to increase serotonin. I take a multi or B50, is that enough?. Is pyridoxal phosphate much better (cost matters)?.
From food, which can I consume that can have high tryptophan content?. Bananas, whey protein, milk?.
regarding to herbs, from what I tried, ginseng seems to be good for an energizing feeling. I am not sure if ginseng works on serotonin. Do you know which herbs, apart from SJW can help?.
I need to fix this and I feel short of alternatives. I have not tried all drugs of course. Apart from SSRIs, tianeptine which could be good?. Does citalopram work better?.
Your help is much appreciated.
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 21, 2005, at 18:04:14
In reply to is it possible to increase serotonin w/ diet/sup?, posted by Franz on May 21, 2005, at 9:59:56
> Hello, I need to increase serotonin levels and drugs have not been much of a success for me. S. J. Wort was not good either.
>
> I know that tryptophan and 5HTP are precursors and could be used.
>
> 5HTP seems to be better for daytime use because it does not compete with transporters (if I understood well).
I don't see the transport issue to be very important, with 5-HTP. It's taken up by the brain, and that's all that really matters, I suppose. Yes, you can take 5-HTP at any time, whereas tryptophan is best taken on an empty stomach, and followed 30-45 minutes later with a sweet carbohydrate.....something to get the blood insulin levels up. That solves the tryptophan transporter competition issue.>
> Both are expensive. can you recommend doses, timing, etc.?.Tryptophan isn't that expensive here:
http://www.buygpdirect.com/gpefeed.htm
Near the bottom of the page, you'll find "SU-PER TRYPTOPHANE ULTRA PURE". It's the real deal.
Dosing is entirely something you figure out by experiment. There's a little scoop with that tryptophan, and I just use a scoop full. Or, grab a teaspoon from the drawer, and use a heaping spoonful.
Most people find that 100 mg of 5-HTP is plenty, but some people take much more than that. A lot of people take it just before bed. I don't use it, so I can't say what it's like, or how much to use.
> Also, I read that vitamin B6 helps to increase serotonin. I take a multi or B50, is that enough?. Is pyridoxal phosphate much better (cost matters)?.Yes, that multi is enough. Make sure you have a good source of zinc(30 mg), and selenium (200 mg). And vitamin C.
I would strongly recommend fish oil. And, if you use that, you should take some vitamin E and/or alphalipoic acid.> From food, which can I consume that can have high tryptophan content?. Bananas, whey protein, milk?.
There are no foods that really stand out. Whey protein powder seems to make me feel better, and I'm really not sure why. I get lots of protein, otherwise. Maybe it's just so easy to absorb, as it's already predigested (the stuff I use is hydrolysed).
> regarding to herbs, from what I tried, ginseng seems to be good for an energizing feeling. I am not sure if ginseng works on serotonin.Does it matter, if it works? Do you mean red ginseng?
> Do you know which herbs, apart from SJW can help?.
Siberian ginseng (not the same as red ginseng).
Eleutherococcus senticosus is what you want, here.Ashwaghanda is a possibility. Withania somnifera
Rhodiola is another. Rhodiola rosea
There are other choices, but you don't really say what your symptoms are.
> I need to fix this and I feel short of alternatives. I have not tried all drugs of course. Apart from SSRIs, tianeptine which could be good?. Does citalopram work better?.
>
> Your help is much appreciated.Even IF if you are using drugs, you need to feed your body what it needs to function properly. You are what you eat. Literally. Maybe it's time to give your body a nutritional tune-up. Some high octane fuel. Ya know?
Lar
Posted by Franz on May 21, 2005, at 18:41:26
In reply to Re: is it possible to increase serotonin w/ diet/sup? » Franz, posted by Larry Hoover on May 21, 2005, at 18:04:14
Hi Lar, thanks for the reply.
> > Hello, I need to increase serotonin levels...
skip
> Most people find that 100 mg of 5-HTP is plenty, but some people take much more than that. A lot of people take it just before bed. I don't use it, so I can't say what it's like, or how much to use.I have tried 5HTP and tryptophan for short periods and you are right, sometimes 100 mg is too much (like too vivid dreams). I never took it during the day.
>
> > Also, I read that vitamin B6 helps to increase serotonin. I take a multi or B50, is that enough?. Is pyridoxal phosphate much better (cost matters)?.
>
> Yes, that multi is enough. Make sure you have a good source of zinc(30 mg), and selenium (200 mg). And vitamin C.I didn´t know selenium was important for serotonin thanks. 200 is a high dose.
>
> I would strongly recommend fish oil. And, if you use that, you should take some vitamin E and/or alphalipoic acid.
>Yes I think it would be good but I will not be able to buy the amino acid and the fish oil. I have some lipoic acid and I am taking small amounts.
> > From food, which can I consume that can have high tryptophan content?. Bananas, whey protein, milk?.
>
> There are no foods that really stand out. Whey protein powder seems to make me feel better, and I'm really not sure why.
Thanks for mentioning it. I read it has a high proportion of tryptophan. Maybe it is just good for some other reason.skip
>
> > regarding to herbs, from what I tried, ginseng seems to be good for an energizing feeling. I am not sure if ginseng works on serotonin.
>
> Does it matter, if it works? Do you mean red ginseng?Well, yes it does matter because I want to make sure I am regulating serotonin and not just feeling better because it gives me some energy. I don´t know hot to explain better, say I take a coffee and feel better for a moment, that is good but not what I need.
>
> > Do you know which herbs, apart from SJW can help?.
>
> Siberian ginseng (not the same as red ginseng).
> Eleutherococcus senticosus is what you want, here.
>
> Ashwaghanda is a possibility. Withania somnifera
>
> Rhodiola is another. Rhodiola rosea
>
> There are other choices, but you don't really say what your symptoms are.
>I have tried Siberian ginseng and rhodiola. A brand of Siberian ginseng I liked but then ordered Siberian ginseng and rhodiola from Beyond a century and did not felt anything from them.
Regarding my symtoms, I feel low energy and mood. From lab tests I know I have low serotonin markers. The results are coincident with some of the symptoms, so I think it may be right that I have a problem with serotonin. I have tried zoloft and tianeptine. I got only side effects from zoloft (maybe less anxiety). Tianeptine was better but not clear antidepressive or motivation effects.
An alternative could be SAMe. I have tried it and felt a stimulating effect.
The problem with supplements is that these are expensive and I have no coverage for them.
skip
>
> Even IF if you are using drugs, you need to feed your body what it needs to function properly. You are what you eat. Literally. Maybe it's time to give your body a nutritional tune-up. Some high octane fuel. Ya know?
>
> LarSure, I try to eat right and exercise but there is always room for improvement. Certainly, I need more fresh vegetables.
Thanks
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 21, 2005, at 19:20:52
In reply to Re: is it possible to increase serotonin w/ diet/s » Larry Hoover, posted by Franz on May 21, 2005, at 18:41:26
> > Yes, that multi is enough. Make sure you have a good source of zinc(30 mg), and selenium (200 mg). And vitamin C.
>
> I didn´t know selenium was important for serotonin thanks. 200 is a high dose.Brain f*rt. Sorry. That's micrograms, not mg of selenium.
Yes, it is a high amount. You'd take that for, say, three months, and then you could take half that amount.
I believe that selenium gets depleted by exposure to neuronal oxidants, and environmental toxins.
> >
> > I would strongly recommend fish oil. And, if you use that, you should take some vitamin E and/or alphalipoic acid.
> >
>
> Yes I think it would be good but I will not be able to buy the amino acid and the fish oil. I have some lipoic acid and I am taking small amounts.I don't know if you like it at all, but I buy pink salmon in a tin. Really inexpensive, when on sale. One or two tins a week would be good for the fish oils, and it's got lots of minerals too, because the bones have been softened enough you can eat them. Really quite a good nutrient source.
> > > From food, which can I consume that can have high tryptophan content?. Bananas, whey protein, milk?.
> >
> > There are no foods that really stand out. Whey protein powder seems to make me feel better, and I'm really not sure why.
>
>
> Thanks for mentioning it. I read it has a high proportion of tryptophan. Maybe it is just good for some other reason.Dunno. It just seems to be better than other protein sources, mood wise.
> skip
>
> >
> > > regarding to herbs, from what I tried, ginseng seems to be good for an energizing feeling. I am not sure if ginseng works on serotonin.
> >
> > Does it matter, if it works? Do you mean red ginseng?
>
> Well, yes it does matter because I want to make sure I am regulating serotonin and not just feeling better because it gives me some energy. I don´t know hot to explain better, say I take a coffee and feel better for a moment, that is good but not what I need.I get what you're saying.
We're not really sure just what most herbs do. They're complex mixtures of active substances. It's pretty hard to pin herbs down, and say "this herb raises that neurotransmitter". We know SJW is an antidepressant, but we can't really say why, even after years of intensive research.
> >
> > > Do you know which herbs, apart from SJW can help?.
> >
> > Siberian ginseng (not the same as red ginseng).
> > Eleutherococcus senticosus is what you want, here.
> >
> > Ashwaghanda is a possibility. Withania somnifera
> >
> > Rhodiola is another. Rhodiola rosea
> >
> > There are other choices, but you don't really say what your symptoms are.
> >
>
> I have tried Siberian ginseng and rhodiola. A brand of Siberian ginseng I liked but then ordered Siberian ginseng and rhodiola from Beyond a century and did not felt anything from them.I've been very happy with BAC. I've got a whole load of Rhodiola I can't use, because it works "backwards" in me. It makes me wired. Solgar brand, if you're wondering.
> Regarding my symtoms, I feel low energy and mood. From lab tests I know I have low serotonin markers. The results are coincident with some of the symptoms, so I think it may be right that I have a problem with serotonin. I have tried zoloft and tianeptine. I got only side effects from zoloft (maybe less anxiety). Tianeptine was better but not clear antidepressive or motivation effects.My best recommendation is tryptophan. Plain and simple. That veterinary source I listed is good stuff. People don't feed crap to their horses.
> An alternative could be SAMe. I have tried it and felt a stimulating effect.
>
> The problem with supplements is that these are expensive and I have no coverage for them.I hear ya. SAMe is really expensive. Have you tried TMG?
> skip
>
> >
> > Even IF if you are using drugs, you need to feed your body what it needs to function properly. You are what you eat. Literally. Maybe it's time to give your body a nutritional tune-up. Some high octane fuel. Ya know?
> >
> > Lar
>
> Sure, I try to eat right and exercise but there is always room for improvement. Certainly, I need more fresh vegetables.
>
> ThanksThere are always things to try, to bring into your toolbox of coping strategies. Every little bit helps, eh?
Lar
Posted by Franz on May 21, 2005, at 20:24:55
In reply to Re: is it possible to increase serotonin w/ diet/s » Franz, posted by Larry Hoover on May 21, 2005, at 19:20:52
> I don't know if you like it at all, but I buy pink salmon in a tin. Really inexpensive, when on sale. One or two tins a week would be good for the fish oils, and it's got lots of minerals too, because the bones have been softened enough you can eat them. Really quite a good nutrient source.
I buy tuna in cans. Do you think two cans of tuna (4 oz each) per week is enough?.
I also buy canned sardines when thay are at a good price. I eat them whole. I dislike the scales (looks bad), I do not know if they have any nutrients.
> I hear ya. SAMe is really expensive. Have you tried TMG?
Yes but I do not get the same result, it can´t compare.
What would be a better choice, tryptophan or SAMe?. The problem is to determine if I need more precursors or to enhance the production of serotonin. Maybe I am not very efficient to produce serotonin.
In case i use tryptophan, does it matter if I use B6 or coenzyme 5PF?. I I take the multi or B50 say at midday with food, should I take an extra dose at bedtime with the amino acid?.
Thanks
Posted by joebob on May 23, 2005, at 10:20:04
In reply to Re: is it possible to increase serotonin w/ diet/sup? » Franz, posted by Larry Hoover on May 21, 2005, at 18:04:14
form or even the kr ala are better forms, the straight stuff is really acidic and can give tummy upset, esp, as high doses
best,
joebob
Posted by Franz on May 26, 2005, at 23:57:03
In reply to you metion alpha lipoic acid...do you think the r, posted by joebob on May 23, 2005, at 10:20:04
> form or even the kr ala are better forms, the straight stuff is really acidic and can give tummy upset, esp, as high doses
>
> best,
> joebobmaybe better but more expensive
yes ALA is acidic and burns your throat ,not tummy, how high is your dose?
Posted by joebob on May 27, 2005, at 21:55:49
In reply to Re: you metion alpha lipoic acid...do you think th » joebob, posted by Franz on May 26, 2005, at 23:57:03
Posted by Franz on May 27, 2005, at 22:46:32
In reply to 500mg to 1250 mg (nm) » Franz, posted by joebob on May 27, 2005, at 21:55:49
That is very high, for what condition?
Posted by joebob on May 28, 2005, at 11:37:24
In reply to Re: 500mg to 1250 mg » joebob, posted by Franz on May 27, 2005, at 22:46:32
for his depression and digestive disorders, so i decided to try a higher dose, and found i did 'feel' better on it...
right now i am dealing mostly with anxiety and some related depression, due to 6 years of exogenous stressorshave you tried either the r ala or the k r ala?
best,
joebob
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