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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by MM on August 29, 2005, at 19:53:32
I just started taking "Source Naturals Arctic Pure EPA" fish oil, and when I was taking a generic brand of fish oil I seemed to have these emotional fits so I stopped, but today I had one. I have had some extra stress lately, so it could be that, but I remember some other people having the fits too. Why would someone get weepy from fish oil? Could it be the EPA DHA ratio (450mg EPA, 100mg DHA)? Could it be depleting something else which would then cause this? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks,
MM
Posted by linkadge on August 30, 2005, at 12:36:49
In reply to Why would fish oil make me weepy/emotional?, posted by MM on August 29, 2005, at 19:53:32
How much are you taking per day ?
Too much can have a depressant effect since its actions more closely resemble a mood stablalizer than an antidepressant.
Linkadge
Posted by MM on August 30, 2005, at 15:54:26
In reply to Re: Why would fish oil make me weepy/emotional?, posted by linkadge on August 30, 2005, at 12:36:49
I'm taking one capsule which = 1 g fish oil concentrate with 450mg EPA and 100mg DHA, but maybe the fish oil plus my trileptal is too much.
Posted by linkadge on August 31, 2005, at 12:06:23
In reply to Re: Why would fish oil make me weepy/emotional? » linkadge, posted by MM on August 30, 2005, at 15:54:26
Yes, I have found that the effects of the fish oil can be magnified by other meds.
I found that when on lithium, fish oil was a bit too much.
I would experiment a little. Try it on different occasions to see if it brings about the same responce.
When I was on epival, I was able to reduce the epival by about 1/3 when the fish oil was added.
Linkadge
Posted by Mistermindmasta on August 31, 2005, at 19:47:30
In reply to Re: Why would fish oil make me weepy/emotional?, posted by linkadge on August 30, 2005, at 12:36:49
> How much are you taking per day ?
>
> Too much can have a depressant effect since its actions more closely resemble a mood stablalizer than an antidepressant.
>
>
> Linkadge
I wouldn't necessary say that it's a mood stabilizing effect... in the studies i've seen of fish oil, they tend to have sort of a stimulating effect - increasing stimulatory neurotransmitters. Take a look on pubmed for yourself. Do a search on "dopamine" "fish oil"... dopamine definitely increases with long term fish oil use. I have heard reports of it causing manic or hypomanic episodes too. Then again, some people might have a type of depression that gets worse with fish oil use. But as a whole, I would say that its more antidepressant esque / simulating than mood stabilising.
Posted by linkadge on August 31, 2005, at 20:36:23
In reply to Re: Why would fish oil make me weepy/emotional?, posted by Mistermindmasta on August 31, 2005, at 19:47:30
Dr. Andrew Stoll at Harvard university was really the first medical professional to bring to the forefront the psychiatric applications of the omega 3 fatty acids.
In his book: "The omega 3 connection" he basically lists some of the molecular targets of the fats.
He does mention that they do posess considerable antidepressant effects, however he likens their effects more to that of mood stabilizers than antidepressants.
He basically notes the main distinction in that SSRI's TCA's and MAOI's all seem to increase the activity of protein kinase C, whereas lithium, divalproex, and tegretol decreas its activity within the cell. The fats also affect the GSK-3b signalling system like lithium and divalproex. GSK-3b inhibitors have anti manic effects. Whereas stimulants and SSRI's all seem to increase GSK-3b mediated signalling.
Omega 3's are powerfull PKC inhibitors, like the mood stablilizers. They do seem to increase brain serotonin and dopamine content which may be responsable for some of their mood elevating effect. Their biggest effects on the catecholamines is probably thought enhancement of membrane integrity.
Mania can happen, but Stoll mentions that he has only seen this with flax seed oil which he does not recomend for psychiatric purposes.
I would still argue that fish oil posesses more of an overall mood stabilizing effect, since in addition to its effects on dampening signal transduction via PKC inhibition, they also increases the sensitivity of the cholingic system which is consistant with a depressant effect.
Of course individual results will vary.
I personally have noted an AD effect in the lower doses while higher doses seem to have a more pronounced depressant effect.
Stoll also mentions that high EPA content fish oils seem to work better in unipolar depression wheras those high in DHA seem to confer many of the mood stabilizing effects of the oils.
Just my 3 cents
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on August 31, 2005, at 20:39:49
In reply to Re: Why would fish oil make me weepy/emotional?, posted by linkadge on August 31, 2005, at 20:36:23
I would liken their effects to something like say Lamictal (which I would call a mood stablilizer and not an antidepressant)
There have been cases of mania on lamictal, but I would still argue that lamictal still more closely resembles a mood stablilizer than an AD.
Linkadge
Posted by MM on September 1, 2005, at 2:14:55
In reply to Re: Why would fish oil make me weepy/emotional?, posted by linkadge on August 31, 2005, at 20:39:49
Well I did read that increased dopamine means increased emotions; I don't know if that's true because I've also read that increased dopamine means increased reward seeking/pleasure so I don't know why I'd get weepy. I dunno, but I guess I'll try fish oil again when things settle down because I would love to cut down my dose of Trileptal or anything else. Thanks for the replies,
Meg
Posted by Darwin on September 1, 2005, at 14:27:22
In reply to Re: Why would fish oil make me weepy/emotional?, posted by linkadge on August 31, 2005, at 20:36:23
>
> Stoll also mentions that high EPA content fish oils seem to work better in unipolar depression wheras those high in DHA seem to confer many of the mood stabilizing effects of the oils.
>
> Just my 3 cents
>
>
> Linkadge
>Would you provide a reference to the above statement. I seem to recall Dr. Stoll stating that EPA is responsible for BOTH the antidepressant and mood stabilizing effects and that DHA is not helpful in the treatment of those conditions.
Darwin
Posted by linkadge on September 2, 2005, at 7:41:21
In reply to Re: Why would fish oil make me weepy/emotional? » linkadge, posted by Darwin on September 1, 2005, at 14:27:22
The following article describes how both EPA and DHA inhibit PKC, (in contrast to arachidonic acid)
I remember reading somewhere that DHA was slightly more potent a PKC inhibitor. I will try to find that study. I was under the impression that I read this too from The Omega 3 Connection, but I could very well be wrong.
The EPA vs. DHA debate is a fairly controversial one, so I won't delve too deep.
This is the end of the thread.
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