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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jay on May 6, 2006, at 19:09:11
I have been...in connection with my use of ssri's and antipsychotics. It seems to have some sort of 'toning' effect on Dopamine and Serotonin and Gaba. That is, I think it blocks and decreases some serotonin, increases some dopamine, and increases Gaba which keeps a lid on anxiety. It mostly seems to push me out of that 'apathetic' SSRI problem. It also sharply reduces that wirey-anxiety feeling. Any thoughts?
Jay (p.s. I still have to use clonazepam also with it, though.)
Posted by john berk on May 6, 2006, at 20:23:00
In reply to Anyone use theanine regularly?, posted by Jay on May 6, 2006, at 19:09:11
Hi Jay, I have taken 100 mgs. of theanine every evening at 6 p.m. this week, since i drink alot of iced tea in the afternoon, it mellows me out, it has an dampening effect on caffiene, making you more relaxed!!
I still take my klonopin at night though also....john
Posted by Declan on May 6, 2006, at 20:26:04
In reply to Anyone use theanine regularly?, posted by Jay on May 6, 2006, at 19:09:11
Hi Jay
Me lately. I bought 12 bottles (Jarrow) and have only 2 left, hoeing through it. I need way more than 100mg. I suppose I'm taking 1,200mg/d. It's OK. I drink green tea as well.
Declan
Posted by nolvas on May 6, 2006, at 20:48:54
In reply to Re: Anyone use theanine regularly? » Jay, posted by Declan on May 6, 2006, at 20:26:04
Powered Theanine is cheapest from bulknutrition or beyond a century. It's good to get rid of jittery and wired anxiety, like the wired feeling you get when having too much caffiene. It's no use at all to prevent panic attacks though. I still find it useful for treating mild generalised anxiety.
Posted by john berk on May 7, 2006, at 8:59:17
In reply to Re: Anyone use theanine regularly? » Jay, posted by Declan on May 6, 2006, at 20:26:04
Hi Declan,
does theanine alter serotonin in any way?, that is why i stay low dose, i thought that it raised GABA and Dopamine, While lowering serotonin in some parts of the brain.
I'm not positive about those facts though, nor were the reseachers whose paper i read,
would a high dose effect my prozac efficacy? do you take any SSRI'S? I'm sorry about all the questions, i would like to take higher doses of theanine, i was just not sure if i should, i love the effect it gives, thanks....john
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 7, 2006, at 13:50:01
In reply to Anyone use theanine regularly?, posted by Jay on May 6, 2006, at 19:09:11
I do enjoy it when a substance is drawn up into cognition. When it becomes salient. I don't recall having given theanine such a narrowly focussed view, before this. Interesting molecule. As Schulz used to say "Very interesting.....". {Hogan's Heroes.....oh, I feel old.}
Theanine is the condensate, the coming together of two simpler bodies, of glutamic acid and ethylamine. Because the amide so formed more closely resembles glutamine, it's not surprising the effects of it resemble the latter so much. Perhaps the nuanced distinction between the molecules known as glutamate and glutamine is challenging to readers, but it is a critical distinction to make.
For images of those molecules, see:
http://www.chemicalforums.com/index.php?page=moleculesGlutamate is stimulatory. It is directly opposed by GABA and/or taurine, in most synaptic realms. But it is also opposed by glutamine, although indirectly so. Glutamine is calming.
Yes, Jay, theanine is a calming modulator for your brain.
Theanine, as formed in the tea plant, Thea sinensis (also known as Camellia sinensis), is nearly unique in nature. Surprisingly, there are only a couple of other known sources. Caffeine, we find it all over the place. Theanine is rarer, by far. And theanine directly modulates and softens the effects of caffeine, by the way. It's clearly been proven.
Theanine does something very special, too. It directly stimulates glutathione synthesis, which is a very good thing. Glutathione is perhaps the main "sacrificial lamb" that your body uses to defend itself against oxidants, in the broadest sense. So, theanine ought to work synergistically with any intake of glutathione precursors, such as NAC (N-acetyl cysteine), or hydrolyzed proteins with high cysteine content, such as whey powder. These precursors would ensure the maximal benefit of theanine intake, protecting both the brain and the liver.
What makes using theanine challenging, I suppose, is that it is bimodal in effect. At lower doses, its net effect can be stimulating. At higher doses, the calming effect predominates. For those who find theanine stimulating, you may be taking too little. That said, you may not like the effect of a higher dose. But, it's probably worth doing the experiment, anyway, just to know the outcome.
I rather like what I've found out about theanine. It looks like all around "good stuff". I didn't find a single "red flag" about using it, anywhere......except, this is one of the cases where natural is better than synthetic. Avoid, if possible, any product that contains D-theanine. You want the natural L-theanine. The D-enantiomer just slows everything down. It's a competitive inhibitor for L-theanine.
Anyway, here are a few general information articles, and a few links to abstracts, preceded by my own commentary. Excuse me, in the meantime. I'm off to find my green tea extract. I'm sure I've got some 'round here, somewhere.
Lar
http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/.fulltext/10/2/136.pdf
http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/bpb/25/12/1513/_pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16493792&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsumThis reference shows anxiolytic activity exceeding that of alprazolam, under controlled conditions:
It helps control blood triglycerides, and is an anti-obesity regulator:
If we're anything at all like rats, the ability to degrade theanine to free glutamic acid and the reactive ethylamine moiety only occurs in the kidney. That suggests that the observed activity of theanine is not arising via products of hydrolysis.
L
Posted by Declan on May 7, 2006, at 15:05:17
In reply to Re: Anyone use theanine regularly? » Declan, posted by john berk on May 7, 2006, at 8:59:17
Hi John
In Japan it is added to foods (I think) parly for the taste (ummammi or something) and partly to improve their mood. People there take SSRIs. I've only ever heard about the dopamine/GABA effect. I'd like to buy it bulk from BAC, but they don't ship to Australia. I bought it cheaper at iherb than LEF. And that other place I forget that Nolvas put up doesn't sell bulk. I take so much of it.
Declan
Posted by john berk on May 7, 2006, at 15:07:35
In reply to Re: Anyone use theanine regularly?, posted by Larry Hoover on May 7, 2006, at 13:50:01
Hi Larry, thank you so much for this wealth of information!! I'm excited about theanine now after reading one link where it proposed that theanine blocked aspartic acid release, and increased glycine,
Do you personally think this would have positive implications in OCD? I Take a Magnesium Glycine supplement twice a day, i have read that both glycine and aspartic acid have along with glutamate some links to OCD.
Also do you think i am okay taking higher doses of theanine with my Prozac, i know you mentioned no known interactions, but does Theanine decrease serotonin at all?
thank you...john
Posted by john berk on May 7, 2006, at 15:12:20
In reply to Re: Anyone use theanine regularly? » john berk, posted by Declan on May 7, 2006, at 15:05:17
Thanks Declan,
i did read that about Japan, they even put theanine in chewing gum there, lol, i will look into getting it in bulk, i pay quite a bit for the small amount i take!!
i read also that it effects theta brain waves, putting you in a state similiar to meditation, so theanine must be quite relaxing, even at my small dose i feel it!!
take care....john
Posted by nolvas on May 7, 2006, at 19:28:55
In reply to Re: Anyone use theanine regularly? » Declan, posted by john berk on May 7, 2006, at 15:12:20
Theanine has been approved in Japan since 1964
http://www.web-us.com/l-theanine_anxiety_reducer.htm
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 8, 2006, at 11:02:23
In reply to Re: Anyone use theanine regularly? » john berk, posted by Declan on May 7, 2006, at 15:05:17
> Hi John
> In Japan it is added to foods (I think) parly for the taste (ummammi or something) and partly to improve their mood. People there take SSRIs. I've only ever heard about the dopamine/GABA effect. I'd like to buy it bulk from BAC, but they don't ship to Australia. I bought it cheaper at iherb than LEF. And that other place I forget that Nolvas put up doesn't sell bulk. I take so much of it.
> DeclanI just checked the manufacturer's website (for Suntheanine; there may be others), and they don't have an agent in Australia. Perhaps, if you contact them directly, you can order some. Or, this is perhaps a business opportunity? http://www.taiyointernational.com/Locations/Locations_Index.asp?cc=12
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 8, 2006, at 11:10:56
In reply to Re: Anyone use theanine regularly? » Larry Hoover, posted by john berk on May 7, 2006, at 15:07:35
>
> Hi Larry, thank you so much for this wealth of information!! I'm excited about theanine now after reading one link where it proposed that theanine blocked aspartic acid release, and increased glycine,I'm glad you found something useful in all of that. As I say, I haven't really given it any attention at all, until now. So it seems. I do find that I have both bulk green tea extract (primarily for the ECGC), and bulk theanine, on my shelves. Still untested.....I got distracted, yesterday.
> Do you personally think this would have positive implications in OCD?
Would? It certainly could.
> I Take a Magnesium Glycine supplement twice a day, i have read that both glycine and aspartic acid have along with glutamate some links to OCD.
Do you recall the precise pattern of those links? We're talking about some very specific activities, raising and lowering in a specific pattern. If I recall, theanine does: glycine up, and aspartate and glutamate down. Is that right?
> Also do you think i am okay taking higher doses of theanine with my Prozac, i know you mentioned no known interactions, but does Theanine decrease serotonin at all?
There is some belief, and I don't know what it's founded on, but there is some belief that not only dopamine release but serotonin release is increased by theanine. You hear that about a lot of stuff, though, and there usually isn't a lot of evidence. And, in any case, something either works or doesn't work, independent of whether or not we understand why. I haven't finished looking around the literature, yet. If I find something on point, I'll let you know.
> thank you...john
Always welcome,
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 8, 2006, at 11:29:10
In reply to Re: Anyone use theanine regularly?, posted by nolvas on May 7, 2006, at 19:28:55
> Theanine has been approved in Japan since 1964
>
> http://www.web-us.com/l-theanine_anxiety_reducer.htmRather dramatic reduction in blood pressure illustrated there. There have been no studies involving humans. Bizarre, that? Non? Research was done in 1998, in Japan. And that's the end of it. <Spock eyebrow>
I don't usually harp on brands, but it appears that there are products out there with D-theanine in them. In this test, only Suntheanine was pure L-theanine. D-theanine points to man-made products, as opposed to the extract.
I bet you I know who paid for that research to be done.
Lar
Posted by john berk on May 8, 2006, at 13:18:44
In reply to Re: Anyone use theanine regularly? » john berk, posted by Larry Hoover on May 8, 2006, at 11:10:56
http://www.neurotransmitter.net/depressionglutamate.html Hi Larry, thanks once again for your valuable input. Here is a page of some of the abstracts I was reading concerning Glycine, glutamate and Aspartic Acid in depression and ocd, if you have the time to check them out.
I totally agree, if something works, it just works, our bio-chemistry's are all so unigue, Theanine does seem to help me relax.
Always great to get your opinion, take care ...john
Posted by Declan on May 8, 2006, at 14:33:19
In reply to Re: Anyone use theanine regularly? » Declan, posted by Larry Hoover on May 8, 2006, at 11:02:23
Thanks Larry, nice to see you back. There should be some way that I can buy it by the kilo.
Declan
Posted by teejay on May 8, 2006, at 21:09:13
In reply to Re: Anyone use theanine regularly? » nolvas, posted by Larry Hoover on May 8, 2006, at 11:29:10
Live long and prosper! ;-)
Posted by nolvas on May 9, 2006, at 15:29:12
In reply to Re: Anyone use theanine regularly? » Larry Hoover, posted by Declan on May 8, 2006, at 14:33:19
You can get bulk products including from nootrition.com. I haven't purchased from them myself but I've heard they are reliable.
Jeff Whitmore
Managing Partner
Nootropica LLC
301 Beverley Road Ofc PR4
Brooklyn, NY 11218
(718) 676-5347
Retail http://www.nootrition.com
Wholesale Co-Op http://www.nootropica.org
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