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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by linkadge on May 22, 2006, at 1:00:55
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/04/020410075818.htm
How can I believe such a study when the man with the "final say" holds stock in pfizer? Why is the American population told to ditch SJW in favor of pharmacudicals? I think this sort of thing is pathetic.
I wish we could have a completely unnbiased study.
Linkadge
Posted by blueberry on May 26, 2006, at 17:02:02
In reply to This is pathetic SJW study, posted by linkadge on May 22, 2006, at 1:00:55
"There are only two kinds of therapies - those that work and those that don't." Did they stop to think when they said that that they were basically saying zoloft doesn't work? I mean, zoloft failed in this trial.
I've used sjw before and it is actually the best thing I've ever tried, compared to paxil, prozac, zoloft, and wellbutrin, not to mention all the dozens of add-ons I've tried. At sjwinfo.org there are lots of people who really like sjw. I doubt those are placebo effects.
I think there was something wrong with this study. Maybe in the way they chose participants, the politics involved, a hidden bias, or just a random fluke.
Posted by linkadge on May 26, 2006, at 19:31:08
In reply to Re: This is pathetic SJW study, posted by blueberry on May 26, 2006, at 17:02:02
>Did they stop to think when they said that that >they were basically saying zoloft doesn't work? >I mean, zoloft failed in this trial.
Bingo! They mention that zoloft did poorly in very few words. If you read it the article over again, knowing that zoloft did (I believe more poorly) than the SJW, the whole thing is a joke.Its just one example of the manipulation that occurs left and right.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on May 26, 2006, at 19:32:44
In reply to Re: This is pathetic SJW study, posted by linkadge on May 26, 2006, at 19:31:08
The guy who owns www.qualitycounts.com wrote in defense of SJW:
"The fact is, the stringent inclusion and exclusion criteria routinely used in pharmacologic antidepressant clinical trials enable investigators to paint an unrealistically rosy picture of the drugs' performance. This renders the trials largely irrelevant to real-world clinical practice"
Linkadge
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 6, 2006, at 8:19:59
In reply to This is pathetic SJW study, posted by linkadge on May 22, 2006, at 1:00:55
> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/04/020410075818.htm
>
> How can I believe such a study when the man with the "final say" holds stock in pfizer? Why is the American population told to ditch SJW in favor of pharmacudicals? I think this sort of thing is pathetic.
>
> I wish we could have a completely unnbiased study.
>
> LinkadgeThere was one, published at almost precisely the same time, with the same two drug comparators.
Here's another one, more recent:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15744631Guess which ones didn't get the press?
I've posted more than one heavily critical analysis of the SJW study you find so troubling. Do you not notice that they made *no mention* of the fact that sertraline (Zoloft) also failed to relieve depression, in that study? Do you not think that's bigger news? I do.
They go on, to fudge their findings, using a secondary measure to demonstrate that Zoloft did really work, but, that is not allowed!!!!!!!
I don't know how they got away with publishing an abstract so blatantly false.
A primary measure that fails is a study that failed. No secondary measure can replace a primary one, by design. Primary measures are the only measures that count, based on a priori hypotheses. The whole thing was a political act.
Pfizer not only owned the rights to Zoloft, in this study, they supplied the SJW. Right after that study was published, Pfizer withdrew the SJW product from the market. They bought the herb company, set up an experiment that could not succeed, published biased and false conclusions, and then shut the whole thing down.
Lar
Posted by linkadge on June 8, 2006, at 19:33:33
In reply to Re: This is pathetic SJW study » linkadge, posted by Larry Hoover on June 6, 2006, at 8:19:59
I have no faith in the buisness anymore.
This is the type of field where strict honesty must be maintained.
Linkadge
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 13, 2006, at 8:41:44
In reply to Re: This is pathetic SJW study, posted by linkadge on June 8, 2006, at 19:33:33
> I have no faith in the buisness anymore.
>
> This is the type of field where strict honesty must be maintained.
>
>
> LinkadgeFair enough. But there are honest people in the business. There are bad apples in every barrel, dude. You just gotta be selective.
Lar
This is the end of the thread.
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