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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 30. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by linkadge on July 2, 2006, at 20:38:15
Oh, so I've been reading doing a little reading.
Here goes.
Anandamide is the body's own version of THC. Anyhow, it can be degraded by one of two mechanisms the first being FAAH (fatty acid anandamide hydrogenase - or something), and the anandamide uptake transport.
Dark chocolate contains both anandimide and certain compound which inhibit the uptake of anandimide.
OHOH, I recently found that plain old advil (ibuprofen) can act as an FAAH inhibitor.
So, I took a moderate dose of advil - 400mg, waited 1/2 hour then ate a 100g bar of dark chocolate.
I am not totally discounting effect of placebo, but it seemed there was a *definate* synergy. I quickly felt better. Music sounded loud and vibrent.
I started to giggle uncontrollably for about 5 minuates, then got really hungry, ate, then lay down to sleep. My mood improved significantly.
It is not my place to ask people to confirm my findings, but if anyone happens to do so, please let me know if you have any effect from the combination.
Thanks,
Linkadge
Posted by llrrrpp on July 2, 2006, at 21:34:39
In reply to Getting stoned without marajuanna., posted by linkadge on July 2, 2006, at 20:38:15
Well, Link,
This is very interesting indeed. Sounds like someone HAS been doing a bit of reading :)Perhaps I'll accidentally get a minor ache or pain, and need to eat some chocolate and ibuprofen to feel better.
The only problem is that I've never been properly stoned on the botanical source of THC. So... little basis of comparison. I can't see myself feeling *bad * after eating fine dark chocolate, however. Giggles would be nice. I can handle giggles.
Thank your for your exhaustive research on behalf of science. :)
nice to meet you, by the way,
-ll
Posted by linkadge on July 2, 2006, at 22:08:05
In reply to Re: Getting stoned without marajuanna. » linkadge, posted by llrrrpp on July 2, 2006, at 21:34:39
Yeah, if marajuanna had no effect on you, it may not have effect. Not too sure.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on July 2, 2006, at 22:08:41
In reply to Re: Getting stoned without marajuanna. » linkadge, posted by llrrrpp on July 2, 2006, at 21:34:39
I was using a %85 cococa chocolate bar.
Linkadge
Posted by llrrrpp on July 2, 2006, at 22:28:33
In reply to Re: Getting stoned without marajuanna., posted by linkadge on July 2, 2006, at 22:08:05
> Yeah, if marajuanna had no effect on you, it may not have effect. Not too sure.
>
> LinkadgeI dunno, because I never tried it (MJ)
I seem to be plenty responsive to my psych meds & alcohol.85% cocoa- that sounds like Lindt Excellence. Maybe Scharffenberger. I am a bit of a chocolate snob. Anything above 70 % usually too strong for me, but I think I can choke it down <grin>
-ll
Posted by linkadge on July 2, 2006, at 22:50:45
In reply to Re: Getting stoned without marajuanna. » linkadge, posted by llrrrpp on July 2, 2006, at 22:28:33
"85% cocoa- that sounds like Lindt Excellence."
You got it!. Eat slowly.
Linkadge
Posted by Adrift on July 3, 2006, at 23:55:13
In reply to Getting stoned without marajuanna., posted by linkadge on July 2, 2006, at 20:38:15
Next time I pick up a chocolate bar I will test your theory out and let you know. That is very interesting.
Posted by helpme on July 4, 2006, at 18:50:10
In reply to Getting stoned without marajuanna., posted by linkadge on July 2, 2006, at 20:38:15
Are you serious or puttin' us on? Amazing!
I also hear dark chocolate, but not milk chocolate, contains phenylalanine, too- a natural antidepressent, aka "love drug".> Oh, so I've been reading doing a little reading.
>
> Here goes.
>
> Anandamide is the body's own version of THC. Anyhow, it can be degraded by one of two mechanisms the first being FAAH (fatty acid anandamide hydrogenase - or something), and the anandamide uptake transport.
>
> Dark chocolate contains both anandimide and certain compound which inhibit the uptake of anandimide.
>
> OHOH, I recently found that plain old advil (ibuprofen) can act as an FAAH inhibitor.
>
> So, I took a moderate dose of advil - 400mg, waited 1/2 hour then ate a 100g bar of dark chocolate.
>
> I am not totally discounting effect of placebo, but it seemed there was a *definate* synergy. I quickly felt better. Music sounded loud and vibrent.
>
> I started to giggle uncontrollably for about 5 minuates, then got really hungry, ate, then lay down to sleep. My mood improved significantly.
>
> It is not my place to ask people to confirm my findings, but if anyone happens to do so, please let me know if you have any effect from the combination.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on July 4, 2006, at 19:15:52
In reply to Re: Getting stoned without marajuanna., posted by helpme on July 4, 2006, at 18:50:10
Yeah, chocolate contains both phenylalanine and substances that act as potent (but short acting) reversable MAO-B inhibitors.
So far I've gathered this about chocolate.
Psychoactive contents:
Anandamide + anandamide reuptake inhibition
PEA, Tyrosine, Tryptophan + MAO inhibitors
(Beta carbolines) (serotonin uptake inhibition + MAO inhibition)
Caffiene, Thebromine (stimulants).But no, I am not kidding about the ibuprofen chocolate synergy. I was searching the internet for a possable FAAH inhibitor and came across ibuprofen. It doesn't last forever, ibuprofen has a short half life.
I'd say take 200-400mg of ibuprofen, then *slowly* eat a dark >=70% cocoa chocolate bar and see what happens.
My logic could be completely wrong, but its cheap enough to give a try.
Linkadge
Posted by JLx on July 4, 2006, at 21:16:34
In reply to Re: Getting stoned without marajuanna., posted by linkadge on July 4, 2006, at 19:15:52
Just happened to run across this recently:
"Chocolate may worsen depression
March 29, 2006A recent paper written by Professor Gordon Parker and others, published in the Journal of Affective Disorders, has found that not only does chocolate lack the antidepressant qualities it was thought to have but that it may actually prolong a depressed mood."
http://www.blackdoginstitute.org.au/media/mediaclips/index.cfm
Three links are provided on that page: pdf files for a summary of the article, the full article and the Black Dog Institute press release.
I read the summary. One interesting thing it noted was that magnesium supplementation can alleviate chocolate cravings -- which I have experienced -- but the chocolate cravings were not due to a magnesium defiency.
JL
> Yeah, chocolate contains both phenylalanine and substances that act as potent (but short acting) reversable MAO-B inhibitors.
>
> So far I've gathered this about chocolate.
>
> Psychoactive contents:
>
> Anandamide + anandamide reuptake inhibition
> PEA, Tyrosine, Tryptophan + MAO inhibitors
> (Beta carbolines) (serotonin uptake inhibition + MAO inhibition)
> Caffiene, Thebromine (stimulants).
>
> But no, I am not kidding about the ibuprofen chocolate synergy. I was searching the internet for a possable FAAH inhibitor and came across ibuprofen. It doesn't last forever, ibuprofen has a short half life.
>
> I'd say take 200-400mg of ibuprofen, then *slowly* eat a dark >=70% cocoa chocolate bar and see what happens.
>
> My logic could be completely wrong, but its cheap enough to give a try.
>
>
>
> Linkadge
>
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Posted by linkadge on July 5, 2006, at 18:08:55
In reply to Re: Chocolate and depression » linkadge, posted by JLx on July 4, 2006, at 21:16:34
I had read that study before, but I will try to keep it in perspective.
They probably were testing regular milk chocolate which would be on average very low in any of the mentioned psychoactive compounds.
I would imagine too that much of the rush and dysphoria from milk chocolate would be from the sugar content.
I don't know if I would call it an antidepressant per se. It does have a bit of a crash, but you can time that right if you get inventive.
I certainly stand behind it as a good boost (lasting?, I don't know).
I've been on each SSRI, several TCA's, several mood stablilizers, and an MAOI, I do feel that it has mood elevating effects.
Dark Chocolate is one of the richest sources of certain antioxidants, even more so than red wine. I think people underestimate the effects of a healthy lifestyle in general on mood.
Some patents too, may be sensitive to certain ingredients. Some peoples anxiety is significantly worsened by phenylalanine for instance, but it can depend on the case I suppose.
Linkadge
Posted by helpme on July 9, 2006, at 19:57:51
In reply to Re: Getting stoned without marajuanna., posted by linkadge on July 4, 2006, at 19:15:52
WOW. Thanks!!! I'll try.Ibuprofen can really screw up my stomache sometimes however. (But I'll try at least once anyway.)
Any other methods :)
> Yeah, chocolate contains both phenylalanine and substances that act as potent (but short acting) reversable MAO-B inhibitors.
>
> So far I've gathered this about chocolate.
>
> Psychoactive contents:
>
> Anandamide + anandamide reuptake inhibition
> PEA, Tyrosine, Tryptophan + MAO inhibitors
> (Beta carbolines) (serotonin uptake inhibition + MAO inhibition)
> Caffiene, Thebromine (stimulants).
>
> But no, I am not kidding about the ibuprofen chocolate synergy. I was searching the internet for a possable FAAH inhibitor and came across ibuprofen. It doesn't last forever, ibuprofen has a short half life.
>
> I'd say take 200-400mg of ibuprofen, then *slowly* eat a dark >=70% cocoa chocolate bar and see what happens.
>
> My logic could be completely wrong, but its cheap enough to give a try.
>
>
>
> Linkadge
>
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>
Posted by helpme on July 9, 2006, at 19:59:50
In reply to Re: Chocolate and depression » linkadge, posted by JLx on July 4, 2006, at 21:16:34
But what of the zillions of reports all over the place about dark chocolate boosting mood, releasing endorphins, etc? I'll take a look at your links...
> Just happened to run across this recently:
>
> "Chocolate may worsen depression
> March 29, 2006
>
> A recent paper written by Professor Gordon Parker and others, published in the Journal of Affective Disorders, has found that not only does chocolate lack the antidepressant qualities it was thought to have but that it may actually prolong a depressed mood."
>
> http://www.blackdoginstitute.org.au/media/mediaclips/index.cfm
>
> Three links are provided on that page: pdf files for a summary of the article, the full article and the Black Dog Institute press release.
>
> I read the summary. One interesting thing it noted was that magnesium supplementation can alleviate chocolate cravings -- which I have experienced -- but the chocolate cravings were not due to a magnesium defiency.
>
> JL
>
> > Yeah, chocolate contains both phenylalanine and substances that act as potent (but short acting) reversable MAO-B inhibitors.
> >
> > So far I've gathered this about chocolate.
> >
> > Psychoactive contents:
> >
> > Anandamide + anandamide reuptake inhibition
> > PEA, Tyrosine, Tryptophan + MAO inhibitors
> > (Beta carbolines) (serotonin uptake inhibition + MAO inhibition)
> > Caffiene, Thebromine (stimulants).
> >
> > But no, I am not kidding about the ibuprofen chocolate synergy. I was searching the internet for a possable FAAH inhibitor and came across ibuprofen. It doesn't last forever, ibuprofen has a short half life.
> >
> > I'd say take 200-400mg of ibuprofen, then *slowly* eat a dark >=70% cocoa chocolate bar and see what happens.
> >
> > My logic could be completely wrong, but its cheap enough to give a try.
> >
> >
> >
> > Linkadge
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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Posted by helpme on July 9, 2006, at 20:01:48
In reply to Re: Chocolate and depression, posted by linkadge on July 5, 2006, at 18:08:55
Oh I bet you are right! Milk chocolate has tons of sugar and other crap compared to high-end dark chocolate, too.
> I had read that study before, but I will try to keep it in perspective.
>
> They probably were testing regular milk chocolate which would be on average very low in any of the mentioned psychoactive compounds.
>
> I would imagine too that much of the rush and dysphoria from milk chocolate would be from the sugar content.
>
> I don't know if I would call it an antidepressant per se. It does have a bit of a crash, but you can time that right if you get inventive.
>
> I certainly stand behind it as a good boost (lasting?, I don't know).
>
> I've been on each SSRI, several TCA's, several mood stablilizers, and an MAOI, I do feel that it has mood elevating effects.
>
> Dark Chocolate is one of the richest sources of certain antioxidants, even more so than red wine. I think people underestimate the effects of a healthy lifestyle in general on mood.
>
> Some patents too, may be sensitive to certain ingredients. Some peoples anxiety is significantly worsened by phenylalanine for instance, but it can depend on the case I suppose.
>
>
> Linkadge
>
>
>
Posted by nolvas on July 9, 2006, at 20:30:09
In reply to Re: Chocolate and depression, posted by helpme on July 9, 2006, at 20:01:48
Apparently the best chocolate in the world is made by Amedei. Voted world's best. A dark chocolate so good and tasted by so few that it leaves you speechless after tasting it. Well that's what I've read in reviews :) Sounds good to me. I will order some soon and see what it's like. Sorry if I hijacked the thread but I had to mention this chocolate. My mouth is watering at the thought of tasting it heh.
http://www.amedei.it/en/home.asp
http://travel.msn.com/Guides/article.aspx?cp-documentid=346149
http://www.chocolatetradingco.co.uk/special.asp?ID=9
Posted by nolvas on July 9, 2006, at 20:38:02
In reply to Re: Chocolate and depression, posted by nolvas on July 9, 2006, at 20:30:09
Sorry again just got some more info, which I hope you will be interested in >
Below is a site that has all the info about the best chocolates. Amedei's Chuao is the highest rated on the site >
http://www.seventypercent.com/chocop/bar_detail.asp?ID=166
Overall a site with some excellent info about the finest chocolates. Well worth a browse.
Posted by JLx on July 9, 2006, at 20:43:17
In reply to Re: Chocolate and depression, posted by helpme on July 9, 2006, at 19:59:50
> But what of the zillions of reports all over the place about dark chocolate boosting mood, releasing endorphins, etc?
I don't know. :)
I was all set to order some cocoa nibs once because I thought it would boost PEA as per some things I'd read, but then someone on this board who sounded like he knew what he was talking about convinced me not to waste my money.
But, ultimately, it's all subjective anyway isn't it? If it works, it works and no report can say otherwise.
JL
Posted by robot on July 9, 2006, at 22:46:11
In reply to Getting stoned without marajuanna., posted by linkadge on July 2, 2006, at 20:38:15
Linkadge--
Ive been sort of following your experiements, which i find really interesting, and certainly I will try this at some point.
thanks for turning me onto cocoa. not really using it right now but a great thing to experiment with.
Posted by helpme on July 10, 2006, at 0:02:02
In reply to Re: Getting stoned without marajuanna., posted by linkadge on July 2, 2006, at 22:08:05
No effect from marijuana?? It varies drastically in quality in all the batches and around the country, I have found. Best in the NorthWest!
But I rarely smoke any more, 'cause I noticed it made me dumb and more and more lazy when I smoked daily-I stopped caring to do things I was passionate about, and instead became very content to watch Startreck constantly and talk about doing xyz "tomorrow". Amazingly, once no longer chronic, I noticed that if I smoked it once in a blue moon and had a great time-I in fact ended up with a sort of paranoidish depression-hangover a day or two later which would then last then for several days!!! It's not something I ever caught on to when I smoked daily, though in retrospect, I was moody then. Weird.
So the chocolate sounds pretty good indeed! I even went out and bought some Lindt tonight, in fact- but haven't done the experiment properly yet for I fear the ibuprofin ripping up my stomache as it is prone to do.> Yeah, if marajuanna had no effect on you, it may not have effect. Not too sure.
>
> Linkadge
Posted by helpme on July 10, 2006, at 0:03:49
In reply to Getting stoned without marajuanna., posted by linkadge on July 2, 2006, at 20:38:15
So where do you do your intriguing reading? I look forward to all your future reports!
> Oh, so I've been reading doing a little reading.
>
> Here goes.
>
> Anandamide is the body's own version of THC. Anyhow, it can be degraded by one of two mechanisms the first being FAAH (fatty acid anandamide hydrogenase - or something), and the anandamide uptake transport.
>
> Dark chocolate contains both anandimide and certain compound which inhibit the uptake of anandimide.
>
> OHOH, I recently found that plain old advil (ibuprofen) can act as an FAAH inhibitor.
>
> So, I took a moderate dose of advil - 400mg, waited 1/2 hour then ate a 100g bar of dark chocolate.
>
> I am not totally discounting effect of placebo, but it seemed there was a *definate* synergy. I quickly felt better. Music sounded loud and vibrent.
>
> I started to giggle uncontrollably for about 5 minuates, then got really hungry, ate, then lay down to sleep. My mood improved significantly.
>
> It is not my place to ask people to confirm my findings, but if anyone happens to do so, please let me know if you have any effect from the combination.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on July 10, 2006, at 20:27:49
In reply to Re: Getting stoned without marajuanna., posted by helpme on July 10, 2006, at 0:03:49
You just get some ideas and then you search the search engines endlessly till you find some connections.
It has been questioned wheather the levels of PEA could affect depression.
I see it this way. Yes, there are other foods that contain higher levels of PEA. But chocolate also inhibits monoamine oxidase. So, the activity of PEA is going to be amplified.
Darker chocolate too, yeilds significantly more of the psychoactive compounds.Same thing goes for anandamide. The levels on their own may not have an effect, but chcocolate also contains compounds that slow the metabolism of anandamide.
Researchers are not looking at the food as a whole, nor have they taken into acound how individual compounds might interact.
Don't you remember what the first researchers said about St. John's Wort? They said, oh, it only inhibits serotonin uptake by 50%, therefore it cannot be an effective antidepressant. Looking at the herb as a whole though, you've got effects on serotonin, norepinehprine, dopamine, gaba, glutamate, CRF etc.
www.chocolate.org is a good site of reference.
Linkadge
Posted by cloudydaze on July 17, 2006, at 18:12:02
In reply to Re: Getting stoned without marajuanna., posted by linkadge on July 10, 2006, at 20:27:49
Well, at least it's good for me...
I always knew chocolate made me feel better when I was depressed - could be just because I like it, or it could be because it's actually GOOD for you (in moderation, of course).
I actually prefer dark chocolate. Anyone ever tried strange chocolate combinations? I once tried a dark chocolate bar that had chili peppers and cinnamon in it. Was quite good. Can't remember the brand, but it was expensive designer chocolate i think...
On a slightly different subject:
Recent studies show that coffee is very good for you, and not because of the caffeine (decaf is just as good).http://www.webmd.com/content/Article/80/96454.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3540729.stm
Good news to me!
Posted by robot on July 30, 2006, at 14:19:20
In reply to Getting stoned without marajuanna., posted by linkadge on July 2, 2006, at 20:38:15
Linkadge--
have you tried this combo again? same effects?> Oh, so I've been reading doing a little reading.
>
> Here goes.
>
> Anandamide is the body's own version of THC. Anyhow, it can be degraded by one of two mechanisms the first being FAAH (fatty acid anandamide hydrogenase - or something), and the anandamide uptake transport.
>
> Dark chocolate contains both anandimide and certain compound which inhibit the uptake of anandimide.
>
> OHOH, I recently found that plain old advil (ibuprofen) can act as an FAAH inhibitor.
>
> So, I took a moderate dose of advil - 400mg, waited 1/2 hour then ate a 100g bar of dark chocolate.
>
> I am not totally discounting effect of placebo, but it seemed there was a *definate* synergy. I quickly felt better. Music sounded loud and vibrent.
>
> I started to giggle uncontrollably for about 5 minuates, then got really hungry, ate, then lay down to sleep. My mood improved significantly.
>
> It is not my place to ask people to confirm my findings, but if anyone happens to do so, please let me know if you have any effect from the combination.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on July 30, 2006, at 17:27:16
In reply to Re: Getting stoned without marajuanna., posted by robot on July 30, 2006, at 14:19:20
Yeah, I have. It does have some definate marajuanna like effects. Although, if you're a regular marajuanna user, you might not have a pronounced effect.
Linkadge
Posted by llrrrpp on July 30, 2006, at 22:26:59
In reply to Re: Getting stoned without marajuanna., posted by linkadge on July 30, 2006, at 17:27:16
I'm still waiting for an evening when I don't have to work or do anything requiring motor control... the Lindt is still in my frige... waiting for the day.
I'm marijuana naive. btw. keep y'all posted.
-ll
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