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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by circusboy on November 26, 2006, at 16:59:46
I don't want to hijack Jimmyboy's thread, even if it seemed like a logical place to bring this up. Especially if we're talking NE/DA precursors...
Since reading sregan's mention of Mucuna from a few hours ago (in aeon's anandamide thread), I've been reading old posts on the stuff and kicking myself for placing my massive iHerb order *yesterday* instead of today. :) Anyway, Mucuna apparently contains a fair bit of l-dopa. Even though that's only one step closer to DA than tyrosine...
http://www.rpi.edu/dept/bcbp/molbiochem/BiochSci/sbello/new_page_2.htm
(search in page for "tyrosine to norepinephrine")
...that head start is clearly clinically significant. In Parkinson's, of course, but also from reports on p-babble. So sregan, etc.: please keep us updated! BarbaraCat's updates seemed to drop off after a while, so I'm not sure if she eventually abandoned the Mucuna, and if so, why.-cb
a postscript: also, sregan... did you ever start that trial of SAMe?
a post-postscript: i just took 5mg Ritalin, and it seems to be hitting me extra-hard. I hope you'll excuse me for any excessive insistence/enthusiasm. :)
Posted by circusboy on November 26, 2006, at 17:02:51
In reply to Amino acid therapy... or Mucuna pruriens?, posted by circusboy on November 26, 2006, at 16:59:46
Ugh... it looks like we've already been here. And recently, too:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20061013/msgs/700124.htmlSorry. Still, there could be fodder for more discussion... :)
-cb
Posted by Jimmyboy on November 26, 2006, at 17:14:56
In reply to Re: Amino acid therapy... or Mucuna pruriens? » circusboy, posted by circusboy on November 26, 2006, at 17:02:51
I was thinking about NA/DA precursors ... Have tried DLPA, and Macuna ... I thought the Macuna was terriblr for me, was way to stimulating and made me jittery as hell.. but some people seem to like it , also tried L- Phenylalinine , it also seems to be more activating than D- Phenylalanine . But maybe b/c the D isomer has some effects on endorphins??
Circus.. are you taking SAM-e ?
I am .. up the thread someone mentioned taking methyl-B12 as opposed to regular B-12 with it.. do you or anyone else know if this would make a significant differance?
JB
Posted by Jimmyboy on November 26, 2006, at 17:41:59
In reply to Re: Amino acid therapy... or Mucuna pruriens? » circusboy, posted by Jimmyboy on November 26, 2006, at 17:14:56
Anyone know what neurotransmitters SAM-e works on?
JB
Posted by circusboy on November 26, 2006, at 17:45:34
In reply to Re: Amino acid therapy... or Mucuna pruriens? » circusboy, posted by Jimmyboy on November 26, 2006, at 17:14:56
I tried l-phenylalanine, and it mostly just gave me a headache. Like I'd just quaffed a liter of diet Coke. Tyrosine is much, much better for me. Some people really prefer the racemic D,L phenylalanine, though, which I've never tried... my l-phenylalanine experience put me off.
I am taking SAM-e. In fact, I'm the someone who wrote that post you're talking about. :)
According ye olde Larry Hoover, the proper form of B12 could make a significant difference. The cyanocobalamin form of B12 *consumes* SAM-e when it's converted into the biologically active methylcobalamin. Can I say I've seen a difference since I've switched from a multi with the cyano- form to one containing the methyl- and started taking extra methylcobalamin as well? I'm not sure. I think so, but it's mixed up in the facts that my new multi is clearly higher quality (Jarrow Multi 1 to 3), and I've been experimenting with herbs as well.
Either way, I'd say definitely give it a shot. IMO, switching away from the cyano- is as important as getting the extra methylcobalamin. Oh, the brand I take is the Jarrow "Methly-B12" lozenges.
Yes, I like Jarrow Formulas. No, I'm not getting some kind of viral marketing kickback from them. :)
> I was thinking about NA/DA precursors ... Have tried DLPA, and Macuna ... I thought the Macuna was terriblr for me, was way to stimulating and made me jittery as hell.. but some people seem to like it , also tried L- Phenylalinine , it also seems to be more activating than D- Phenylalanine . But maybe b/c the D isomer has some effects on endorphins??
>
> Circus.. are you taking SAM-e ?
>
> I am .. up the thread someone mentioned taking methyl-B12 as opposed to regular B-12 with it.. do you or anyone else know if this would make a significant differance?
>
> JB
Posted by aeon on November 26, 2006, at 17:54:18
In reply to Re: Amino acid therapy... or Mucuna pruriens? » Jimmyboy, posted by circusboy on November 26, 2006, at 17:45:34
L-Dopa actually cannot be absorbed into the brain normally because it gets converted to dopamine peripherally. That's why they include carbidopa which stops conversion peripherally, and allows the l-dopa to cross into the brain. Parkinson's patients need to induce a functional B6 deficiency also as B6 increases peripheral conversion.
Posted by sregan on November 26, 2006, at 18:24:59
In reply to Amino acid therapy... or Mucuna pruriens?, posted by circusboy on November 26, 2006, at 16:59:46
>Anyway, Mucuna apparently contains a fair bit of l-dopa. Even though that's only one step closer to DA than tyrosine...
Here's what I bought:
http://herbal-powers.com/macunapruriens.htmlI like "standardized" herbals so I know how much of the active ingredients I'm getting. I've tried Tyrosine and DLPA both had a negative effect that took a few days to peak. The Mucuna was immediate. First day felt somewhat better than the somewhat worse the next morning. Next day much better, even wonderful, then hard crash (anxious) the next morning. I think it has great potential and I don't believe it will effect everyone or even anyone else the same way it did me. I wonder if I took smaller more frequent doses than once a day. I might work up the courage to try that.
I have two issues with this stuff over Aminos. 1. There is other stuff in the Mucuna bean. What is it and what does it do?
2. If you supplement with L-dopa will your brain feedback and stop making as much of the stuff?The answers can probably be found in the web perhaps on Parkinsons discussion groups. Mucuna, reportedly, as been used to treat Parkinsons for years in India.
> a postscript: also, sregan... did you ever start that trial of SAMe?
I didn't ever order it. I thought I had butwhen my I-herb order came no SAM-e. After more reading I'm skeptical about getting this stuff over the counter until someone can give me a brand recommendation that they've actually had results with.
> a post-postscript: i just took 5mg Ritalin, and it seems to be hitting me extra-hard. I hope you'll excuse me for any excessive insistence/enthusiasm. :)
We need a little enthusiasm around here.
Posted by nolvas on November 27, 2006, at 2:07:10
In reply to Re: Amino acid therapy... or Mucuna pruriens? » circusboy, posted by sregan on November 26, 2006, at 18:24:59
Velvet Beans Contain these Substances
mg of substance per 100 grams
Alkaloids: Mucunine Mucunadine
Mucuadinine Pruriendine
Nicotine
Amino Acids: L-Dopa 4,000
Lipids: Phytosterols: Beta-Sitosterol
Phospholipids: Phosphatidylcholine
Peptides: Glutathione
Posted by JLx on November 27, 2006, at 18:43:58
In reply to Re: Amino acid therapy... or Mucuna pruriens? » circusboy, posted by sregan on November 26, 2006, at 18:24:59
> I didn't ever order it. I thought I had butwhen my I-herb order came no SAM-e. After more reading I'm skeptical about getting this stuff over the counter until someone can give me a brand recommendation that they've actually had results with.I've had results with Source Naturals (purchased from iherb) brand SAM-e, until I reached some sort of homeostatis point when it pooped out (after about 2 months). If you try it, be sure you take enough. I recall something funny about how they figure the mgs and the first time I tried it I figured out later I hadn't taken enough each day.
JL
Posted by Jimmyboy on November 28, 2006, at 17:34:58
In reply to Re: Amino acid therapy... or Mucuna pruriens? » sregan, posted by JLx on November 27, 2006, at 18:43:58
I had short term great success with GNC brand SAM-e . I heard GNC and SOurce Naturals were both made by an Italian company and the best ones we could get over here..
JLX , I also had success with it for 2 months , almost on the dot and it quit working and has never worked anywhere near as well since.. bummer, because when I first started it , it was hreat. Probably the best I have felt in my life..
JB
Posted by circusboy on November 28, 2006, at 19:23:07
In reply to Re: Amino acid therapy... or Mucuna pruriens? » circusboy, posted by sregan on November 26, 2006, at 18:24:59
> I like "standardized" herbals so I know how much
of the active ingredients I'm getting. I've tried
..snip..
> I have two issues with this stuff over Aminos. 1. There is other stuff in the Mucuna bean. What is it and what does it do?
> 2. If you supplement with L-dopa will your brain feedback and stop making as much of the stuff?
>
I share your skepticism and caution about herbals. Their complexity and variable potency between brands (and possibly between crops of the same brand, even with standardization) kept me away for a while. Still (as you know) after you've tried a few of the better ones, it's impossible to deny that they're (psycho)pharmacologically active and therefore really hard to resist experimenting with them...> I didn't ever order it. I thought I had butwhen my I-herb order came no SAM-e. After more reading I'm skeptical about getting this stuff over the counter until someone can give me a brand recommendation that they've actually had results with.
I have had -- and continue to have -- good success with the Jarrow Formulas SAM-e, 400mg. I take two pills before breakfast. I've also tried the Doctor's Best and don't like it nearly as much. I can actually feel the difference after just a day or two. Maybe this is an aesthetic more than a functional difference (placebo effect?), but the Jarrow pills are clearly better made. (Yes, I was the one who wrote that silly review on iHerb). Anyway... over the Doctor's Best, at least, I *strongly* recommend the Jarrow Formulas. I've also tried the Vitamin World brand, but that was a few years ago, and I quit taking it after a couple of weeks...I don't have anything useful to say about it. Consumer Labs says it's OK, though.
Anyway. I've just started a trial of vinpocetine. I'll try to remember (ha!) to let you all know how it's going. Unless I confound the results by taking some of my new bottle of Ashwagandha at the same time.
Empiricism is a cruel mistress! Or something.
-cb
This is the end of the thread.
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