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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by linkadge on March 15, 2007, at 20:00:47
I've been eating a lot of probiotic yogurt. I think it is making a difference in my depression. Definately less GI stuff. Anyhone else?
Linkadge
Posted by teejay on March 15, 2007, at 22:21:42
In reply to Probiotics helping my depression?, posted by linkadge on March 15, 2007, at 20:00:47
Which ones are you taking link?
Posted by madeline on March 16, 2007, at 6:17:38
In reply to Probiotics helping my depression?, posted by linkadge on March 15, 2007, at 20:00:47
How weird! But I know exactly what you are talking about. Yogurt makes me feel better too. I don't think it is simply the dairy because milk etc... doesn't do the same thing.
I've never been able to come up with an explanation that was satisfactory to me about the "yogurt effect".
Some thoughts I have had though:
The gut/brain connection has long been ignored, but some of the same chemicals released by the gut are released by the brain.Yogurt helps to restore the normal flora in the gut which ultimately reduces inflammation caused by pathological overgrowth. The inflammation-depression link is just now being explored.
Restoration of normal gut flora helps with the absorption of certain nutrients.
I don't know why, but I know what you are talking about.
maddie
Posted by Simus on March 16, 2007, at 8:06:03
In reply to Probiotics helping my depression?, posted by linkadge on March 15, 2007, at 20:00:47
> I've been eating a lot of probiotic yogurt. I think it is making a difference in my depression. Definately less GI stuff. Anyhone else?
Probiotics helped me. Yes, less GI issues, but it's more than that. I just "feel better" when taking it. It is something I take every day now. I also take digestive enzymes. I think the connection may be in part that I digest food better--get more nutrients. I'm sure there's more to it than that. But when I try something and notice an immediate positive effect, and the effect doesn't diminish over time, and when I don't take it I can tell, I'm sure that it's a "gotta have" for me.
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 17, 2007, at 9:46:23
In reply to Probiotics helping my depression?, posted by linkadge on March 15, 2007, at 20:00:47
> I've been eating a lot of probiotic yogurt. I think it is making a difference in my depression. Definately less GI stuff. Anyhone else?
>
> LinkadgeHey, link. I'm not the least bit surprised by what you noticed. There's a whole branch of industrial food science following the issue. It looks like it's finally "ripe" for consumption.
Bovine milk contains four families of proteins, e.g. casein. Within those protein families, there are specific amino acid sequences, that if liberated, are highly bioactive.
The most studied of these bioactive peptides are the casomorphins. They are named for their activity, i.e. casein-derived morphine-like peptides. They are analogous to our own internal opiates, the endorphins. As a class, the various opiate-active food products are known as exorphins. If you do a search on exorphin or casomorphin, I guarantee you'll get many hits.
Food science has long known about one major product of casein digestion, a group known as the beta-casomorphins. beta-casomorphin-7 is a potent mu-opioid agonist, and also a 5-HT2a antagonist. Lord only knows what other regulatory effects might be induced by similar digested protein fragments. But I do know this, food scientists have been seeking ways to optimize the production of beta-casomorphin from milk. The food geek scientist site that had a particular paper is no longer up, but there was a patented new process that created 5 times the beta-casomorphin as normally produced by milk bacteria. I think Kraft might use it. One commercial enzyme called Neutrase (used in cheesmaking) produces lots of beta-casomorphin. As I say, it's a well-known aspect of industrial food production. Similar exorphins arise from gluten, by the way.
As madeline notes, changes in bacterial fauna arising from assimilation of live cultures can be very good for you. You get improved digestion, and better luminal wall health. beta-casomorphin-5 induces mucus formation, which can reduce luminal porosity (implicated in leaky gut syndrome). Lots of stuff going on, at least.
I do better when I take probiotics and digestive enzymes. I just get lazy, and forgetful, and good things fall by the wayside. I really appreciate it when people remind me to refocus.
Lar
Here's a simple overview of milk exorphins, to start you off....
Biopolymers. 1997;43(2):99-117.
Milk protein-derived opioid receptor ligands.
Teschemacher H, Koch G, Brantl V.
Rudolf-Buchheim-Institut fur Pharmakologie, Justus-Liebig-Universitat, Giessen, Germany.Milk is mammalian characteristic and is of particular importance for humans: Mother's milk or its substitutes from cows' milk are absolutely essential nutriments for the neonate and cows' milk also represents a basic foodstuff for adults. However, in addition to their well-known nutritive role, milk constituents apparently are also able to carry specific information from the milk producer's to the milk receiver's organism: Thus, a number of milk protein fragments has been shown to behave like opioid receptor ligands able to address opioidergic systems in the adult's or in the neonate's organism. With respect to the proteins, which they are derived off these peptides have been named alpha-casein exorphins or casoxin D (alpha-casein), beta-casomorphins or beta-casorphin (beta-casein), casoxin or casoxin A, B, or C (k-casein), alpha-lactorphins (alpha-lactalbumin), beta-lactorphin (beta-lactoglobulin) or lactoferroxins (lactoferrin). Only casoxins and lactoferroxins display antagonistic properties; the other peptides behave like opioid receptor agonists. Most of the information available so far has been collected about beta-casomorphins. These peptides obviously can be released from beta-casein in the adult's or in the neonate's organism, where they might elicit opioid effects in the frame of a regulatory role as "food hormones". Several synthetic beta-casomorphin derivatives have been shown to be highly specific and potent mu-type opioid receptor ligands which frequently have been used as standard tools in opioid research.
Posted by Joe Bloe on March 17, 2007, at 17:56:36
In reply to Re: Probiotics helping my depression? » linkadge, posted by Larry Hoover on March 17, 2007, at 9:46:23
This may be related: about 7 years ago, I tried one of those diets to combat Candidiasis - (no sugar, processed foods, or yeast products, greater consumption of green tea, fish, and carbs without yeast), and took supplements. Some of the supplements included, garlic, charcoal, caprylic acid, and acidophilus.
Even though my doctor told me at the time that "there is no such thing as candida infection," I felt really good while on this diet, not great - I still had depression, anxiety, etc. but it was definitely more controlled. Ultimately, I just couldn't keep it up. The diet and regimen was taxing and costly in monetary terms. But once I stopped the diet, I noticed a definite increase in depression. I also started drinking beer again, which may have fueled it.
Posted by Quintal on March 19, 2007, at 13:36:00
In reply to Re: Probiotics helping my depression? » linkadge, posted by Larry Hoover on March 17, 2007, at 9:46:23
I've noticed similar effects when eating live yoghurt with probiotics, and with cheese too. I've been eating a lot of cheese on toast recently and I notice a definite lift after the first slice.
>Similar exorphins arise from gluten, by the way.
I've heard of that - my aunt has celiac disease but eats a small portion of my uncle's food every now and again because it makes her feel good (though I've read this can happen because the gut is damaged by the gluten in celiacs). She'd been depressed for weeks after my granddad died, head down and puffy eyed, so she ate half of her hubby's chocolate cake as a treat. The next day she was almost manic, frolicking like a spring lamb when she came to collect my dogs. She is also a hardcore cheese addict and says she couldn't possibly live without it. It says in "The Mood Cure" that pizza is a particularly potent source of exorphins/trigger for endorphin release with its melted cheese and white bread.
Q
Posted by Declan on March 19, 2007, at 15:14:09
In reply to What about cheese?, posted by Quintal on March 19, 2007, at 13:36:00
When Keith Richards came to Australia a year or two ago, he was asked for an opinion and he said 'Just don't eat cheese'.
I've been thinking about that ever since.
This is the end of the thread.
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