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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 4 of 4. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tom Twilight on April 9, 2007, at 8:02:59
Hey all
For the last 8 days I've been taking a really high dose of EPA oil, over 1g.
Anyway I always suffer from fatigue, but its been terrible for the last week, I'm not depressed, just tired!
I know that in the West were supposed to have to much Omega 6 & 9 oils in our diet & to little omega 3.
Is it possible that the balance can be skewed the over way?
Can one have to much Omega 3 & not enough of the others?
Or is it that theres to much vitamin E in the supplement?
To much Vit E can cause fatigue
Posted by sregan on April 9, 2007, at 11:00:02
In reply to To much Omega 3?, posted by Tom Twilight on April 9, 2007, at 8:02:59
Tom,
If you take something and you are feeling worse you have two options. The obvious one is to stop taking it. The other, which many doctors opt for, is if you believe you need to take this substance is to find another substance that will address the side effects of the first. Like taking Taurine to counter the DHA anxiety in fish oil.
Personally I don't think 1g is a HUGE dose. I would recommend backing off or stopping for a few days and re-evaluate.
For fatigue have you tried RIBOSE? It has been sending ripples through the CFS/FMS community as something that is helping a large percentage with energy issues. I have personally taken it and recommend it. Ribose is a 5-carbon sugar that is a building block for ATP.
From that page:
"D-Ribose... is an outstanding new nutrient (a special sugar-even OK for those who need to avoid sugar!) for those of you who want a powerful energy boost! In addition to its role in making DNA and RNA, those of you familiar with biochemistry remember Ribose as the key building block for making energy. In fact, the main energy molecules (like “Energy dollars”) in your body (ATP, FADH, etc.) are made of ribose plus B vitamins/phosphate. That makes these energy molecules similar to the paper that money is printed on- kind of like being able to print your own energy currency!"
Shawn
Posted by tealady on April 9, 2007, at 22:23:20
In reply to To much Omega 3?, posted by Tom Twilight on April 9, 2007, at 8:02:59
> Hey all
>
> For the last 8 days I've been taking a really high dose of EPA oil, over 1g.
>
> Anyway I always suffer from fatigue, but its been terrible for the last week, I'm not depressed, just tired!
>
> I know that in the West were supposed to have to much Omega 6 & 9 oils in our diet & to little omega 3.
>
> Is it possible that the balance can be skewed the over way?
> Can one have to much Omega 3 & not enough of the others?
> Or is it that theres to much vitamin E in the supplement?
> To much Vit E can cause fatiguewell the balance is probably not the best, the that's NOt the culprit here.
I'm think I've written it up b4 somewhere. I suspect your problem is to do with over wiggly cell membranes:-).. worsened by the fish oil!hypo as in hypothyroid people have this.. as do probably a bit depressed and fatigued.. so worsened with fish oil probably
also I strongly suspect that climate plays a Huge part.. tropics and hot .. dont need a wiggly, actually most prefer coconut oil and LESS oil there!.. just observing what people tend to eat, and my personal food preference in the heat as well!
Although , for me, i reckon I need the whole fish.. oily fish maybe , but the whole fish , not just the fish oil capsules... I enjoy sardines:)live in Canada like Lar..or better even ALaska,.. fish oil great to make wiggly in cold climate.. and would need the selenium and probably the iodine (although they get that artifically added in TOO big amounts) along with the fish oil.
I reckon if Lar moved to say Vanuatu he'd have huge change of heart on fish oil ;-)OK it's way simplified .. but its the idea..
just get your omega3's from green veges etc..as the balance these days is for way too much omega6's from a grain based diet..
so eat meat and milk from cows and animals fed grass not grains, eat greens oneself and get the diet back to what it once was in this wayand sorry Lar if you are reading this I don't have the energy or inclination to get the studies..but they are done somwhere I'm sure, well maybe NOT the climate comment, that's just my personal thoughts based on observation
Posted by tealady on April 10, 2007, at 5:12:42
In reply to To much Omega 3?, posted by Tom Twilight on April 9, 2007, at 8:02:59
more on thyroid and omega 3 ratio and proton leak rate
Thyroid hormone status and membrane n-3 fatty acid content influence mitochondrial proton leak
Proton leak, as determined by the relationship between respiration rate and membrane potential, was lower in mitochondria from hypothyroid rats compared to euthyroid controls. Moreover, proton leak rates diminished even more when hypothyroid rats were fed a diet containing 5% of the lipid content as n-3 fatty acids. Similarly, proton leak was lower in euthyroid rats fed the 5% n-3 diet compared to one containing only 1% n-3 fatty acids. Lower proton leaks rates were associated with increased inner mitochondrial membrane levels of n-3 fatty acids and a decrease in the ratio of n-6/n-3 fatty acids. This trend was evident in the phosphatidylcholine, phosphatidylethanolamine, phosphatidylinositol and cardiolipin phospholipid fractions. These results suggest that a significant portion of the effect of thyroid hormone status on proton leak is due to alterations in membrane fatty acid composition, primarily changes in n-3 content. Both the hypothyroid state and dietary effects appear to be mediated in part by inhibition of the Delta6- and Delta5-desaturase pathways.The mechanism of the increase in mitochondrial proton permeability induced by thyroid hormones
The surface area of the mitochondrial inner membrane was shown by three different assays to be greater by a factor of between two and three in mitochondria from hyperthyroid animals than in mitochondria from hypothyroid animals; euthyroid controls were intermediate. This difference in surface area of the inner membrane explains less than half of the difference in apparent proton permeability
The proton permeability of liposomes prepared from phospholipids extracted from mitochondrial inner membranes of hyperthyroid rats was three times greater than the proton permeability of those from hypothyroid rats; euthyroid controls were intermediate.
first, that the proton permeability of the phospholipid bilayer is an important component of the proton permeability in intact mitochondria and, second, thyroid hormone-induced changes in the bilayer are a major part of the mechanism of increased proton permeability. Such changes may be due to the known differences in fatty acid composition of mitochondrial phospholipids in different thyroid states. Thus we have identified two mechanisms by which thyroid hormone levels in rats change proton flux/mass protein in isolated liver mitochondria: a change in the area of the inner membrane/mass protein and a change in the intrinsic permeability of the phospholipid bilayer
This is why I am worse on fish oils when hypo(TSH over 3)...Think I also had stuff on light (length of day, perhaps intensity if memory is correct) altering fatty acid levels as well as VitD ..
unsure of heat if anything been studied.. but it sure seems to fit from my observation..just a bit on why NOT to OD on fish oil :-)
like I said, probably fine if you live in canada, Norway, Alaska etc.. and not too hypo (tired and depressed main symptoms with added anxiety)
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