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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by MM on April 15, 2007, at 3:58:29
So...this is the first I've come across this hypothesis that (some) mood disorders might be caused, in part at least, by insufficient myelination at certain developmental stages...or something like that. It sounds really plausible to me, but I don't have a science background or anything. It also goes along with thyroid disorders running in families, so maybe that's a plausible explanation for why MD's run in families? Anyway, I thought some of the better-educated/more well-read people on the board might have some info on this? I'm particularly interested in anything about how to uhh..re-myelinate? my uhh...sheaths? nerves? Heh. From what I read, lecithin and maybe fish oil or other fatty acids could help? I'm 24, so apparently I still have some chance to help my myelination (until 25)? Larry??
I'd be appreciative of any info. Thanks.
-Meg
Posted by Phillipa on April 15, 2007, at 19:49:33
In reply to Myelination?, posted by MM on April 15, 2007, at 3:58:29
You know I can't comment on that but what I did discover was that the majority of psych patients in the hospital had thyroid problems my pdoc confirmed this. Mylination has to do with MS doesn't it? Love Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on April 16, 2007, at 13:47:51
In reply to Re: Myelination? » MM, posted by Phillipa on April 15, 2007, at 19:49:33
omega 3, b12, vitamin D maybe.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on April 16, 2007, at 14:28:17
In reply to Re: Myelination?, posted by linkadge on April 16, 2007, at 13:47:51
http://www.drugresearcher.com/news/ng.asp?n=67237-bristol-myers-squibb-schizophrenia-qki
Something on schizohprenia and myelination.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on April 16, 2007, at 14:31:36
In reply to Re: Myelination?, posted by linkadge on April 16, 2007, at 13:47:51
Thyroid hormone on myleination.
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/101/46/16363
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on April 16, 2007, at 14:33:18
In reply to Re: Myelination?, posted by linkadge on April 16, 2007, at 13:47:51
>However, raising animals in stimulating >environments increases their myelin production. >Also, mastering an activity, such as learning to >play the piano, fosters myelination, and myelin >is decreased in several mental disorders, >including schizophrenia and bipolar disorder.
Posted by Phillipa on April 16, 2007, at 20:14:51
In reply to Re: Myelination?, posted by linkadge on April 16, 2007, at 14:33:18
Link I certainly hope your degree will be in science and that you will go on to become involved in research . I take it that the myelin sheaths arounds nerves in the brain do a lot more than cause MS if destroyed but that also thyroid hormone if administered in the acute phase of the disease process could possibly reverse it. Also that schizophrenia and other mental disorders are also related. This is as much as my pea brain thinks it understands. For goodness sakes correct me. I take no offense. And if your thyroid is underactive it could lead to both disorders am I totally off base? Love Phillipa
Posted by Franz on April 17, 2007, at 8:36:55
In reply to Myelination?, posted by MM on April 15, 2007, at 3:58:29
B12 is involved in myelination
Posted by MM on April 17, 2007, at 23:45:33
In reply to Re: Myelination?, posted by linkadge on April 16, 2007, at 14:33:18
Thanks for the links. I guess I'll keep taking b12 etc. and hope it might help.
Posted by MM on April 17, 2007, at 23:57:19
In reply to Re: Myelination? » MM, posted by Phillipa on April 15, 2007, at 19:49:33
Yeah, myelination or lack of it is supposed to be a cause of MS (as you can see from Linkadge's links) and I thought I read it was linked to CFS too. There are some new meds in the works for MS that work on myelination, so maybe in a few years those will be available to us to try.
I think I've mentioned this several times, but I really think it should be standard procedure that anyone being considered for a mental illness dx should be very thoroughly checked for every other possible physical cause first, especially their thyroid.
Posted by MM on April 17, 2007, at 23:58:39
In reply to Re: Myelination?, posted by Franz on April 17, 2007, at 8:36:55
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 21, 2007, at 11:31:19
In reply to Myelination?, posted by MM on April 15, 2007, at 3:58:29
> So...this is the first I've come across this hypothesis that (some) mood disorders might be caused, in part at least, by insufficient myelination at certain developmental stages...or something like that. It sounds really plausible to me, but I don't have a science background or anything. It also goes along with thyroid disorders running in families, so maybe that's a plausible explanation for why MD's run in families? Anyway, I thought some of the better-educated/more well-read people on the board might have some info on this? I'm particularly interested in anything about how to uhh..re-myelinate? my uhh...sheaths? nerves? Heh. From what I read, lecithin and maybe fish oil or other fatty acids could help? I'm 24, so apparently I still have some chance to help my myelination (until 25)? Larry??
>
> I'd be appreciative of any info. Thanks.
>
> -MegI hadn't come across this hypothesis before. Thanks for bringing it up. Rather a recent angle for studying mood disorders, from what I can surmise.
Other posters have already given you good advice, in omega-3, B12, vitamin D. You're also correct that lecithin couldn't hurt, being a source of phospholipids. Interesting enough, though, is a recent finding of the direct stimulatory effect of the omega-6 fatty acid, gamma-linolenic acid (GLA, found abundantly in borage, evening primrose and black currant oils), on maturation of oligodendrocytes and thus myelin sheet formation.
Lar
Reference:
Dev Neurosci. 2006;28(3):196-208.
Polyunsaturated fatty acid supplementation stimulates differentiation of oligodendroglia cells.
van Meeteren ME, Baron W, Beermann C, Dijkstra CD, van Tol EA.
Biomedical Research Department, Numico Research B.V., Wageningen, The Netherlands.Dietary polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs) have been postulated as alternative supportive treatment for multiple sclerosis, since they may promote myelin repair. We set out to study the effect of supplementation with n-3 and n-6 PUFAs on OLN-93 oligodendroglia and rat primary oligodendrocyte differentiation in vitro. It appeared that OLN-93 cells actively incorporate and metabolise the supplemented PUFAs in their cell membrane. The effect of PUFAs on OLN-93 differentiation was further assessed by morphological and Western blot evaluation of markers of oligodendroglia differentiation: 2',3'-cyclic nucleotide 3'-phosphodiesterase (CNP), zonula occludens-1 (ZO-1) and myelin-associated glycoprotein (MAG). Supplementation of the OLN-93 cells with n-3 and n-6 PUFAs increased the degree of differentiation determined by morphological analysis. Moreover, CNP protein expression was significantly increased by gamma-linolenic acid (GLA, 18:3n-6) supplementation. In accordance with the OLN-93 results, studies with rat primary oligodendrocytes, a more advanced model of cell differentiation, showed GLA supplementation to promote oligodendrocyte differentiation. Following GLA supplementation, increased numbers of proteolipid protein (PLP)-positive oligodendrocytes and increased myelin sheet formation was observed during differentiation of primary oligodendrocytes. Moreover, increased CNP, and enhanced PLP and myelin basic protein expression were found after GLA administration. These studies provide support for the dietary supplementation of specific PUFAs to support oligodendrocyte differentiation and function.
Posted by linkadge on April 21, 2007, at 15:13:28
In reply to Re: Myelination? » MM, posted by Larry Hoover on April 21, 2007, at 11:31:19
http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/archives/000663.html
http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/archives/003778.html
Linkadge
Posted by MM on April 29, 2007, at 3:50:18
In reply to Re: Myelination? » MM, posted by Larry Hoover on April 21, 2007, at 11:31:19
>
> I hadn't come across this hypothesis before. Thanks for bringing it up. Rather a recent angle for studying mood disorders, from what I can surmise.
>
> Other posters have already given you good advice, in omega-3, B12, vitamin D. You're also correct that lecithin couldn't hurt, being a source of phospholipids. Interesting enough, though, is a recent finding of the direct stimulatory effect of the omega-6 fatty acid, gamma-linolenic acid (GLA, found abundantly in borage, evening primrose and black currant oils), on maturation of oligodendrocytes and thus myelin sheet formation.
>
> Lar
>
> Reference:
>
> Dev Neurosci. 2006;28(3):196-208.
> Polyunsaturated fatty acid supplementation stimulates differentiation of oligodendroglia cells.
> van Meeteren ME, Baron W, Beermann C, Dijkstra CD, van Tol EA.
> Biomedical Research Department, Numico Research B.V., Wageningen, The Netherlands.
>
> Dietary polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs) have been postulated as alternative supportive treatment for multiple sclerosis, since they may promote myelin repair. We set out to study the effect of supplementation with n-3 and n-6 PUFAs on OLN-93 oligodendroglia and rat primary oligodendrocyte differentiation in vitro. It appeared that OLN-93 cells actively incorporate and metabolise the supplemented PUFAs in their cell membrane. The effect of PUFAs on OLN-93 differentiation was further assessed by morphological and Western blot evaluation of markers of oligodendroglia differentiation: 2',3'-cyclic nucleotide 3'-phosphodiesterase (CNP), zonula occludens-1 (ZO-1) and myelin-associated glycoprotein (MAG). Supplementation of the OLN-93 cells with n-3 and n-6 PUFAs increased the degree of differentiation determined by morphological analysis. Moreover, CNP protein expression was significantly increased by gamma-linolenic acid (GLA, 18:3n-6) supplementation. In accordance with the OLN-93 results, studies with rat primary oligodendrocytes, a more advanced model of cell differentiation, showed GLA supplementation to promote oligodendrocyte differentiation. Following GLA supplementation, increased numbers of proteolipid protein (PLP)-positive oligodendrocytes and increased myelin sheet formation was observed during differentiation of primary oligodendrocytes. Moreover, increased CNP, and enhanced PLP and myelin basic protein expression were found after GLA administration. These studies provide support for the dietary supplementation of specific PUFAs to support oligodendrocyte differentiation and function.
>
>Hmm, I've been taking EPO for a while, off and on...I can't say I've noticed a mood "stabilizing" effect really but I don't feel like it's making me worse so I'll keep taking it and hope I guess. Still having trouble with the fish oil. Thanks for the reply/help!
Posted by MM on April 29, 2007, at 3:53:59
In reply to Re: Myelination in schizohprenia and bipolar, posted by linkadge on April 21, 2007, at 15:13:28
> http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/archives/000663.html
>
> http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/archives/003778.html
>
> Linkadge
It seems like from those articles that maybe myelination is more a factor in psychosis rather than depression/mania....or maybe I misunderstood?
Posted by tealady on April 29, 2007, at 20:53:58
In reply to Myelination?, posted by MM on April 15, 2007, at 3:58:29
Finally found time to search my site. I think I've managed to restore some myelin (hopefully), at least I've stopped the intense burning and regained some coordination like some fine motor skills etc with the B1 regime (which begins with B1 ..I had to take injections but I can't get the ampoules at present) and the flavinoids.
Other thing important would be estrogen levsls, but that would not be applicable to you.
http://tealady-health.blog.co.uk/?s=myelination&sentence=AND&submit=Search
Hope this is helpful in some way.Jan
This link may also offer some suggestions
http://tealady-health.blog.co.uk/?tag=ms
Posted by sregan on May 4, 2007, at 16:52:03
In reply to Myelination?, posted by MM on April 15, 2007, at 3:58:29
"Methylation and Myelin
Myelin coating on nerve is important for proper neurotransmission. Methylation of amino acids in myelin basic protein helps to stabilize it against degradation. In animal studies the developmental increase in methylation capacity is correlated with parameters of myelination. Decreased levels of methylation activity in these animal models are related to conditions of demyelination."From: "Biomolecular Nutrigenomic Analysis of Methylation.doc" at the Yasko/CFS group @ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/CFS_Yasko/files/
See: http://www.holistichealth.com/Publications/49103DAC-E8D4-416B-91AF-0E300F4B835B.htmland
http://www.holistichealth.com/Publications/C5E7CDB6-6736-460A-9329-721B72DC93E9.html
Posted by MM on May 6, 2007, at 23:30:26
In reply to Re: Myelination? » MM, posted by tealady on April 29, 2007, at 20:53:58
Hi Jan, thanks for the link. I am actually a female, but I'm sometimes mistaken for a male on the net....something about the way I type I guess :)
-Meg
Posted by MM on May 6, 2007, at 23:32:45
In reply to Re: Myelination and Methylation » MM, posted by sregan on May 4, 2007, at 16:52:03
Thanks sregan...those are some great links. I'll have to read through them a few times to get what they're saying though. I guess I'll have to throw out the 5 lbs of whey protein I just bought (because the glutamic acid is bad, right?).
Posted by tealady on May 6, 2007, at 23:47:37
In reply to Re: Myelination? » tealady, posted by MM on May 6, 2007, at 23:30:26
> Hi Jan, thanks for the link. I am actually a female, but I'm sometimes mistaken for a male on the net....something about the way I type I guess :)
>
> -MegHi there Meg.
No I didn't take you as either sex precisely.. the estrogen reference was to do with your age.
..and MM can mean Mere Male , LOL.. not that I took it as such!.. but maybe sometimes others have..
Posted by MM on May 7, 2007, at 0:46:14
In reply to Re: Myelination?, posted by tealady on May 6, 2007, at 23:47:37
Oh ok, I see. I'm just so used to people assuming I'm male when I don't have a female-specific screen name. I guess I have a male aura on the net or something.
Posted by sregan on May 7, 2007, at 9:09:58
In reply to Re: Myelination and Methylation » sregan, posted by MM on May 6, 2007, at 23:32:45
> Thanks sregan...those are some great links. I'll have to read through them a few times to get what they're saying though. I guess I'll have to throw out the 5 lbs of whey protein I just bought (because the glutamic acid is bad, right?).
MM, No don't do that. Correctly you don't want to add extra Glumatic acid or Aspartic Acid to your diet. In the case of taking protein you have the Blood-Brain-Barrier competition factor. When you have many aminos trying to cross the BBB you're not going to get a flood of any given amino. The smaller onces like glycine should cross easier.
I've gotten in the habit of taking a glutamate blocker before my protein. I take one before I eat any restaurant food also. These are Taurine, Magnesium, Lysine, Zinc and Theanine. They block glutamate in one way or another.
Shawn
Posted by MM on May 8, 2007, at 17:35:49
In reply to Re: Myelination and Methylation » MM, posted by sregan on May 7, 2007, at 9:09:58
Oh, very good to know (since I paid good money for that 5 lbs). Thanks Sregan.
Posted by sregan on May 9, 2007, at 10:58:53
In reply to Re: Myelination and Methylation » sregan, posted by MM on May 8, 2007, at 17:35:49
> Oh, very good to know (since I paid good money for that 5 lbs). Thanks Sregan.
MM,
As a rule (I read someone else mention this on this or another board) not everyone will respond the same way to everything. If you find something that you believe is helping you (makes you feel better) don't give it up unless you have really good evidence to do so.
Also very important in using supplements is not to add/remove too many at one time (I like one at a time for about 3 days unless I get a really negative reaction). You won't know what is helping and what isn't. Some might help in combination but not singularly and vise-versa.
Generally Whey protein has a LOT of health benefits. Dr. Yasko has a good article about glutamate and asparate and food sources at:
http://www.holistichealth.com/Publications/EFE50725-9744-4927-ABCE-CA2C5C540020.html
and
http://www.holistichealth.com/Publications/39BC94DD-846B-4545-8DE3-DD6069EF1C33.html
Cheers,
Shawn
This is the end of the thread.
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