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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by MM on July 11, 2007, at 1:13:41
I thought since you've done a lot of research on this topic I'd just ask you (as there's so much out there on it). I've read that there is "anecdotal" evidence for its use in bipolar and I know of at least one person who has been prescribed medicinal MJ for bipolar, but many think it can cause psychosis as well. Have you found any information about dosing? Specific types/compounds that affect the brain in different ways (more calming vs. activating, less paranoia etc.)? I've also seen you post about being a runner...have you been able to get similar mood effects (anandamide?) from running? Any info you can share would be great, thanks.
MM
Posted by linkadge on July 12, 2007, at 8:52:58
In reply to Linkadge....cannabis/THC?, posted by MM on July 11, 2007, at 1:13:41
Posted by linkadge on July 12, 2007, at 9:30:06
In reply to Linkadge....cannabis/THC?, posted by MM on July 11, 2007, at 1:13:41
>I thought since you've done a lot of research on >this topic I'd just ask you (as there's so much >out there on it). I've read that there >is "anecdotal" evidence for its use in bipolar >and I know of at least one person who has been >prescribed medicinal MJ for bipolar, but many >think it can cause psychosis as well.
I personally don't believe that marajuanna will cause permanant psychosis. There is some research to suggest marajuanna can cause psychotic like reactions in certain individuals, but there is no research that creates a direct link between marajuanna usage and permanant shizophrenia.
I think it is more likely that individuals with psychotic tendancies are drawn to marajuanna for its theraputic effect for certain symtoms. Indeed a newer study suggested that schizophrenics were indeed *low* in natural brain anandamide, and may indeed have been self medicating with marajuanna to replace the missing cannabanoid receptor activation.Anyhow, its a hot debate, undoubtely fueled by anti-drug movements, and pro-drug movements for that matter.
Schizohprenia is an illness that is likely caused by certain structural abnormalities. One such abnormality is an apparent progressive loss of grey matter, and myelin. Marajuanna has some myelin preserving effects (at least in MS models).
Bipolar disorder also shares possable involvement of myelin related genes.
Anyhow, back to what you asked.
I do think there is utility of marajuanna in certain cases of bipolar. Especially, where the patent has been self medicating for a while and has not showed signs of psychotic like reactions.
Often doses less than needed to get high, can control many symtpoms of bipolar, and depression, such as loss of appetite, insomnia, anhedonia, anxiety etc. Marajuanna does display properties of a mood stabilizer (probably the cannabidol content), which also appears to act as a potent antipsychotic, and anxiolytic.
The *absoulte* confounding factor in the issue is the batch one obtains. We cannot make conclusive statements about marajuanna as ingredients vary from batch to batch.
I would definatly caution against the use of street marajuanna as it is often grown to contain high THC content. The THC may be responsable for certain psychotic reactions. Medicinal otoh, is grown for a THC/cannabidol ballance. The stuff people smoked back in the 60's was the kind of stuff you want! Its all about getting money, and about getting people hooked nowadays.
As mentioned above, cannabidol acts as an antipsychotic which (even in high doses) does not produce catalepsy, movement disorders etc. It also has antianxiety properties.
If you know your souce, (smaller operations preferable), or even better medicinal. It might be worth a try.
If you are prone to psychotic mania, then use more caution. It tends to work well with bipolars who experience a lot of anxiety (with physical manifestations), insomnia, anhedonia, during depression. It can also really help dysphoric mania, or what used to be called "agitated depression"
It would be best to find a doctor willing to explore such avenues. Larry Hoover would know more about medicinal marajuanna, but it has to fall within strict guidlines for constitutent content.
Exercise will produce a similar effect. It does increase andamide and PEA (both of which are increased by MJ), but the effect may not long enough.
I found combining low dose marajuanna with exercise to have a synergistic effect.
Dose is a tough question as I have not talked to a lot of people. I found relief of insomnia, and anxiety with as little as 3 puffs every few days!
I have also heard anecdotal reports that supplementation with certain fatty acids may prolong the effect and decrease the need.
DHA supplementation increases anandamide levels, and may have an effect on the metabolism of exogenious cannabanoids as well.
Linkadge
Posted by MM on July 13, 2007, at 0:38:13
In reply to Re: Linkadge....cannabis/THC?, posted by linkadge on July 12, 2007, at 9:30:06
Thanks so much Linkadge. I think most/all the MJ I've had in my life was probably high THC/low CBD. It always used to exacerbate anxiety/paranoia for me, but I think it might have helped some with depression and even concentration, and maybe some aspects of anxiety at the same time. It wasn't something I enjoyed as much as many people seem to though...definitely not a pro-social drug for me. I'm buying some hemp nut butter, which theoretically should have some CBD content, to see if it has any effect (although it's probably not the best "delivery method" I figure I've tried all kinds of things, so why not? Plus it's legal so that's a plus). Even though medicinal is legal here I think getting approved would be an uphill battle unless I found a new pdoc. BTW, how much exercise seems to increase anandamide for you? I read that it takes like 8 miles to actually get a runner's high/anandamide increase.
Thanks again.
MM
Posted by linkadge on July 13, 2007, at 7:08:01
In reply to Re: Linkadge....cannabis/THC? » linkadge, posted by MM on July 13, 2007, at 0:38:13
Yeah, I cannot say it will work for everbody. Ideally, somebody smart will start to put some of these individual constituents such as cannabidol through clinical trials.
I think the amount of exercise induced increase in anandamide is highly individual. I can only speculate on account of the way exercise affects other brain chemicals.
For instance one study showed that 30 minautes of exercise increased PEA concentrations anywhere from 30% to %200 (or something close to those numbers), depending on the individual.
There is likely individual variation in anandamide metabolism, as well as synthesis etc.
Obsese people for instance, have really high anandamide levels.
Its also hard to say as exercise will increase other brain chemcials PEA, monoamines, endorphens etc.
It'd be nice if they reased that URB-597 (anandmide reuptake inhibitor), as it might help a variety of ills.
I personally try to exercise 30-40min or so of running, but I would be interested to see studies on the exact relationship between exercise duration and anandamide levels.
Linkadge
Posted by MM on July 22, 2007, at 20:12:33
In reply to Re: Linkadge....cannabis/THC?, posted by linkadge on July 13, 2007, at 7:08:01
Well I got my Hemp butter. It's like really thick pesto made from well, weed. I was expecting more of a nut butter type of thing, like almond butter. Anyway, I think it might actually be having a mild effect which is more than I thought it would. It's hard for me to believe but I think it might be helping my mood somewhat and also some symptoms that are CFS-like. The downside is that it's $9 per 10 oz so I'm not going to eat a whole jar per day (and I'll be searching around for better deals...maybe hemp oil). I think it will last about 4-5 days.
It really would be great if someone would study these compounds(?) more and get past the stigma. I don't think the US will be the first one to do it but I don't think it's impossible in some other countries.
I just thought I'd report that I'm (seemingly) having some success with this, though it's mild.
Posted by linkadge on July 23, 2007, at 9:45:45
In reply to Re: Linkadge....cannabis/THC? » linkadge, posted by MM on July 22, 2007, at 20:12:33
Yeah, canada seems more open to things like this. The university I attend is studying certain cannabanoids, and cannabanoid receptor agonists.
Linkadge
This is the end of the thread.
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