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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lao Tzu on December 7, 2008, at 13:01:56
This website has very interesting articles as to different types of depressives (bipolar included) and how you can treat them naturally.
www.alternativementalhealth.com/articles/commoncauses.htm
Posted by Lao Tzu on December 7, 2008, at 13:26:25
In reply to Over/undermethylated depressive types, posted by Lao Tzu on December 7, 2008, at 13:01:56
I tend to fit into the Undermethylated category. The supplements that Pfeiffer lists for undermethylation do help me quite a bit. The only critique I have is that some other supplements that he didn't include are also indispensible to me. Also, what I've been able to figure out is the best times of day to take these supplements. Some of the supplements are best taken during the day first thing in the morning. Some of them are best taken at night before bed.
For instance, I take the bulk of my vitamin E, Niacin, magnesium, and zinc at bedtime. I don't take calcium the same time as magnesium. Magnesium at bedtime and calcium in the morning. Both magnesium and calcium, according to Pfieffer, are more helpful for undermethylated depressives. I've found that taking calcium alone is not helpful. You need to take the magnesium as well to get the calcium to work correctly. Also, I can tolerate only a little zinc, but according to Pfeiffer, if you are Overmethylated, zinc and manganese are very helpful. They report that Niacin would be better for overmethylated depressives rather than undermethylated depressives. This may be true, but I do find that Niacin at bedtime helps me with sleeping better when I take it with other supplements. Niacin during the day actually makes my depression worse. However, if you are overmethylated, Niacin might be very good for you. I find that benfotiamine, which is a fat soluble form of vitamin B1 is very helpful for me during the day. He doesn't mention anything about vitamin B1, but other sources have mentioned B1 in bipolar disorder. Vitamin C is very important for mental health. I find that only 500mg in the morning and 500mg at bedtime is sufficient for me, and it is very good for Undermethylated depressives. Vitamin E is also very good for Undermethylated bipolars as well as schizophrenics. However, I am careful about dosing with vitamin E. I only take 100IU during the day because I can't tolerate any more during my waking hours. At bedtime, I need at least 300IU of vitamin E to help with my sleep. I think Pfeiffer's depressive types may not be hard and fast rules, but certainly they seem to be good starting points for anyone that has no clue as to what supplements would be beneficial for his/her depression. I'm glad to share this information with everyone and hope it is helpful.
Posted by nolvas on December 7, 2008, at 15:38:18
In reply to Over/undermethylated depressive types, posted by Lao Tzu on December 7, 2008, at 13:01:56
I have respect for Pfeiffer and his associates. However these ideas were formed 30 years ago and where's all the studies to back them up? You really struggle to find any credible data to back up any of these subtypes including pyroluria which is a shame. I am studying a degree in Nutrition which includes Orthomolecular treatments, it does pay to question things and not accept them blindly though.
If you believe you fit in to one of these subtypes then you can experiment with the ideas and treatments, and to be honest that's what we all do including doctors, we all experiment until we find something that works. I have looked at these subtypes and there's quite a bit of crossover when I analysed my symptoms, I could fit in to a bit of every one, which largely undermines the validity of them in my opinion.
Posted by Lao Tzu on December 9, 2008, at 10:16:23
In reply to Re: Over/undermethylated depressive types, posted by nolvas on December 7, 2008, at 15:38:18
I do agree with you about crossovers into many of the subtypes. For example, according to Pfeiffer, undermethylated persons don't respond to drugs like Xanax, Ativan, and Valium. On the contrary, these drugs helped me quite a bit in my past. Like I said, Pfeiffer may be a good starting point to give people ideas because there are a lot of sources on the web that give very poor, uneducated advice. For instance, Pfeiffer proposes the use of methionine, calcium, fish oil, etc. for undermethylated persons. However, one source I noted is a proponent of using only 5htp, tyrosine, and in some cases, dopa to treat depression, regardless of methylation type. Who is to know for sure which strategy will correct one's depression? Which combinations of vitamins, minerals, and amino acids are the best, proven treatments? There are a lot of mixed messages out there. What I've personally done is just experiment with different combinations of nutrients, and to tell you the truth, it can be quite frustrating, especially when you're pretty much in the dark about what to do and when no one of authority is telling you to be patient and stick with it, saying, "Be patient, you'll see results in time." People need that positive feedback that what they are doing is actually beneficial to them and not a waste of time and money. That's why I think Pfeiffer has at the very least given us some ideas about how to approach the problem even though his framework is a little shaky. I wouldn't go so far to say that he is a quack. He just doesn't have it down to a science, but like I said, Pfeiffer may be a starting point for those who are completely in the dark and despairing.
Posted by Lao Tzu on December 9, 2008, at 10:29:03
In reply to Over/undermethylated depressive types, posted by Lao Tzu on December 7, 2008, at 13:01:56
Also, Pfeiffer does not take into account the multitude of causes for depression, including hormonal and endocrinology problems as well as the psychological (i.e.environment) components of depression.
Posted by Lao Tzu on December 9, 2008, at 10:45:36
In reply to Over/undermethylated depressive types, posted by Lao Tzu on December 7, 2008, at 13:01:56
Also, I just thought of this. Pfeiffer doesn't take into account the following:
Loving and nurturing environment
sexuality
nutrition
religion
physical exercise
meditation
societal decay
degree of education
lack of basic human needs
Posted by Jimmyboy on December 9, 2008, at 13:37:21
In reply to Re: Over/undermethylated depressive types, posted by Lao Tzu on December 9, 2008, at 10:45:36
Yeah, its definitely not as simple as just an over/undermethylation thing. I think your immune system going out of whack is a much more likely reason than just histamine levels alone.
many things can make your immune system go haywire and some of the supplements recommended for both histadelics/histapenics can be benefical to help regulate immune response.
Posted by MoparFan91 on December 12, 2008, at 10:31:30
In reply to Re: Over/undermethylated depressive types, posted by Jimmyboy on December 9, 2008, at 13:37:21
> Yeah, its definitely not as simple as just an over/undermethylation thing. I think your immune system going out of whack is a much more likely reason than just histamine levels alone.
>
> many things can make your immune system go haywire and some of the supplements recommended for both histadelics/histapenics can be benefical to help regulate immune response.Yes.
30% of depressives, 40% of people w/ bipolar, 40% of those w/ autism, and 37% of schizophrenics do not have a methylation disorder
Posted by Lao Tzu on December 13, 2008, at 13:41:20
In reply to Re: Over/undermethylated depressive types » Jimmyboy, posted by MoparFan91 on December 12, 2008, at 10:31:30
I may be one of those who probably does not a methylation problem because I've tried using high doses of calcium and methionine to no avail. The most calcium I can tolerate is between 300-600mg per day. I also used SAM-E with no favorable response long-term.
This is the end of the thread.
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