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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by myco on April 4, 2009, at 19:04:10
Hi Brian,
Just looking into another sup here...i'm gonna begin this one shortly...no experience with it yet. Called 'arginine' its a precuror to a brain neuro called 'agmatine'. Agmatine increases monamine levels (NE, DA, adrenalin, but not SE) similar to desipramine (a tca). It works by blocking NMDA receptors (glutamatergic receptors) similar in the way memantine works.
I'm real curious about this one as an augment to nardil. It's easily available in sup stores if you wanna try. Or are you turned off by the tyrosine and dopa bean trials? lol
myco
------------------------References:
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Li et al. Antidepressant-like effect of agmatine and its possible mechanism. Eur J Pharmacol. 2003 May 23;469(1-3):81-8.
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Halaris et al. Agmatine : metabolic pathway and spectrum of activity in brain. CNS Drugs. 2007;21(11):885-900.
********
Posted by desolationrower on April 4, 2009, at 22:26:28
In reply to Supplement 'Arginine' as an AD.... [for QBSBROWN], posted by myco on April 4, 2009, at 19:04:10
probably better to get agmatine, arganine goes to other things, and not sure what the rate limiting thing is.
-d/r
Posted by qbsbrown on April 5, 2009, at 16:30:52
In reply to Supplement 'Arginine' as an AD.... [for QBSBROWN], posted by myco on April 4, 2009, at 19:04:10
Let me know how it goes.
As for me, I'm gonna stick to flower essences and homeopathic remedies and ride out this terrible benzo withdrawal. Seems as if almost all herbs, vitmamins, supplements can aggrivate it.
I called a holistic store that I used to work at, and spoke to an herbalist there, and told her what was going on.
She recommended that something called Detox Kit, made by Heel (very good company), she's had good success with.
It's a mixture of homeopathic remedies.
I've taken it before, but it wasn't for my benzo WD.
Hope all is well.
Regards,
Brian
Posted by myco on April 5, 2009, at 16:45:36
In reply to Re: Supplement 'Arginine' as an AD.... [for QBSBROWN], posted by desolationrower on April 4, 2009, at 22:26:28
didnt realize agmatine was a sup. have to look into that. thnx
> probably better to get agmatine, arganine goes to other things, and not sure what the rate limiting thing is.
>
> -d/r
Posted by myco on April 5, 2009, at 16:47:13
In reply to Re: Supplement 'Arginine' as an AD.... [for QBSBROWN], posted by qbsbrown on April 5, 2009, at 16:30:52
Thanks,
ya its best you clear out the crap from previous meds...get through valium withdrawal first. that way you get a good sense of whats happening. dont be affraid though to take a lil shaving of valium to cut the withdrawal a bit.
> Let me know how it goes.
>
> As for me, I'm gonna stick to flower essences and homeopathic remedies and ride out this terrible benzo withdrawal. Seems as if almost all herbs, vitmamins, supplements can aggrivate it.
>
> I called a holistic store that I used to work at, and spoke to an herbalist there, and told her what was going on.
>
> She recommended that something called Detox Kit, made by Heel (very good company), she's had good success with.
>
> It's a mixture of homeopathic remedies.
>
> I've taken it before, but it wasn't for my benzo WD.
>
> Hope all is well.
>
> Regards,
>
> Brian
Posted by qbsbrown on April 6, 2009, at 12:46:16
In reply to Re: Supplement 'Arginine' as an AD.... [for QBSBROWN] » qbsbrown, posted by myco on April 5, 2009, at 16:47:13
I was taking these before I began my taper. I had much less anxeity, depression, and was much more outgoing.
I had it stuck in my mind from some of the boards that vitamins/supplements were terrible things to take during withdrawal. I think those were extreme boards.Vitamin and Supplements
The B vitamins are important for the nervous system. They have been found to stabilize the body's lactate levels, which are responsible for anxiety attacks.
Vitamin B6 (pyridoxine) is particularly important. It is a known energizer that also exerts a calming effect.
Vitamin B-1 (thiamine) helps reduce anxiety and has a calming effect on the nerves.
Niacinamide (a form of Vitamin B-3) is important in the production of certain brain chemicals. In large doses, it has a calming effect.
Include pyridoxal-5-phosphate (P-5-P) if you lack the enzymes to convert vitamin B6 to its active form.
Calcium and magnesium are important to prevent nervous tension. They relax a tense and overwrought nervous system. Calcium is a natural tranquilizer. Magnesium helps relieve anxiety, tension, nervousness, muscular spasms, and ties. Take magnesium in combination with calcium. Take them before bed to improve sleep. Alcohol robs the body of magnesium, causing nervousness and irritability.
Vitamin C is necessary for proper functioning of adrenal glands and brain chemistry. In large doses, it can have a powerful tranquilizing effect and is known to decrease anxiety. Take the variety with bioflavonoids. It is very important for dealing with stress. (Consult a physician before you start any mega vitamin therapy.)
Potassium is essential for proper functioning of the adrenal glands.
Low levels of selenium have been found in people with anxiety disorder. It is a powerful antioxidant that protects the heart.
GABA (gamma-aminobutyric acid) - This amino acid reportedly helps in anxiety.
Vitamin E helps transport oxygen to brain cells and protect them from free radical damage.
Zinc has a calming effect on the central nervous system.
Recommended Daily Dosages
Vitamin B complex, 50 mg one to three times daily
P-5-P, 100 mg
Extra vitamin B-1 (thiamine) - 50 mg 3 times daily, with meals.
Vitamin B-6 (pyridoxine) - 50 mg 3 times daily.
Niacinamide - 100 mg 3 times daily.
Caution- Do not substitute niacin for niacinamide. Niacin can be toxic in such high doses.Vitamin C with Bioflavonoids - 5,000-10,000 mg daily, in divided doses.
Vitamin E - 400 IU or as directed in the label. Use d-alpha-tocopherol form.
Calcium - 2,000 mg daily
Magnesium - 500-1,000 mg daily
Potassium - 99 mg daily
Selenium - 100-200 mcg daily
Caution: If you are pregnant, do not exceed 40 mcg daily.Zinc - 50-80 mg daily. Do not exceed a total of 100 mg daily from all supplements.
GABA (gamma-aminobutyric acid)- 750 milligrams three times a day after meals.
Posted by myco on April 6, 2009, at 19:40:37
In reply to How bout these vitmains for benzo withdrawal?, posted by qbsbrown on April 6, 2009, at 12:46:16
Vitamins: (I can only give you personal experience)
Vitamins B complex for sure...not everyone "reacts" the same to these though...I myself "feel weird" on the complex...there is at least one in there that doesnt agree with me in the doses supplied in the tablets...I halve them and take half morning half afternoon.
*Within the B's:
-vitamin B3 (made up of 2 parts like ive mentioned before: niacin & niacinamide)...you want niacinamide - it had benzo receptor affinities. It helped me sleep many a night a relaxed me many an anxious day. Just dont overdue its use...B's are "linked" to one another....too much of one will cause a depletion in another. Best to balance it out after youve used one for a period of time.
Vitamin B6?...I dont know of it's use personally this way....I use it alot though because it is a common "cofactor" for absorption and distribution of compounds ingested in the stomach/intestine. Similar in the way black pepper extract works - will increase the bioavailability of compounds = more absorption equals better results.
Magnesium citrate - has benzo affinities = will relax you to some extent. again dont overuse as some people find it is depressive after awhile. I have this one on hand for occasional use.
GABA - the "end product" in benzo metabolism. This supplement doesnt work anywhere near as good as a benzo. Does not cross the blood brain barrier...meaning it will "take the edge off" anxiety at the most. I have chew tablets of this...I dont even notice effect unless I chew 5 or so....2500mg i think area. Just enough to touch the anxiety. Seems to wear out quickly. Makes a decent "augment" though to other supplements.
Posted by myco on April 6, 2009, at 19:44:26
In reply to Re: How bout these vitmains for benzo withdrawal? » qbsbrown, posted by myco on April 6, 2009, at 19:40:37
Two additions I forgot:
Vitamin D - search the site...tons of info on this - ive forgotten the thread i was thinking about
Folic acid aswell
> Vitamins: (I can only give you personal experience)
>
> Vitamins B complex for sure...not everyone "reacts" the same to these though...I myself "feel weird" on the complex...there is at least one in there that doesnt agree with me in the doses supplied in the tablets...I halve them and take half morning half afternoon.
>
> *Within the B's:
>
> -vitamin B3 (made up of 2 parts like ive mentioned before: niacin & niacinamide)...you want niacinamide - it had benzo receptor affinities. It helped me sleep many a night a relaxed me many an anxious day. Just dont overdue its use...B's are "linked" to one another....too much of one will cause a depletion in another. Best to balance it out after youve used one for a period of time.
>
> Vitamin B6?...I dont know of it's use personally this way....I use it alot though because it is a common "cofactor" for absorption and distribution of compounds ingested in the stomach/intestine. Similar in the way black pepper extract works - will increase the bioavailability of compounds = more absorption equals better results.
>
> Magnesium citrate - has benzo affinities = will relax you to some extent. again dont overuse as some people find it is depressive after awhile. I have this one on hand for occasional use.
>
> GABA - the "end product" in benzo metabolism. This supplement doesnt work anywhere near as good as a benzo. Does not cross the blood brain barrier...meaning it will "take the edge off" anxiety at the most. I have chew tablets of this...I dont even notice effect unless I chew 5 or so....2500mg i think area. Just enough to touch the anxiety. Seems to wear out quickly. Makes a decent "augment" though to other supplements.
>
>
>
>
Posted by myco on April 12, 2009, at 19:49:35
In reply to How bout these vitmains for benzo withdrawal?, posted by qbsbrown on April 6, 2009, at 12:46:16
Hey Brian:
Found a relevent study you may want to take a look at regarding L-Arginine and it's effects on anxiety & cortisol levels. This is my next supplement actually after this antibiotic is done.
It is available through NOW Foods.This paper is free online.
Smirga et al. Oral treatment with L-lysine and L-arginine reduces anxiety and basal cortisol levels in healthy humans. Biomed Res. 2007 Apr;28(2):85-90.
(Link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17510493)
myco
---------
Posted by Neal on May 29, 2009, at 3:26:49
In reply to For Brian: L-Arginine on anxiety + cortisol levels » qbsbrown, posted by myco on April 12, 2009, at 19:49:35
To get all the Bs at one plus amino acids take ' yeast powders. You'll feel just like you've been sitting in a hot tub.
This is the end of the thread.
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