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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by louise97 on January 23, 2010, at 0:20:49
Bipolar II - unable to take lithium due to stomach distress, unable to take lamictal because I become hypomanic at 50 mg. Wellbutrin above 75 mg also makes me hypomanic. Trying to treat depression.
Taking 750 mg Depakote, 2 mg Klonopin, wellbutrin 75 mg and fish oil.
My pdoc recently recommended NAC and it seems like a miracle. I have energy and am alert without becoming at all irritable. Although he recommended 1000mg to 2000mg, I'm finding I can only take 600 mg time release NAC per day.
Even on this dose of 600 mg divided into two doses, I feel tense and unable to relax. Friends say I am very intense, but not angry or irritable.
Might this be because I'm mixing NAC with Wellbutrin or because I wont give up my espresso?
Has anyone else had similar reactions to NAC and how did you handle it?
I would also like to suggest that anyone who is battling depression without success, get a low dose of NAC in the health food store and try it - build up your dose slowly and see if it helps.
Louise
Posted by janejane on January 23, 2010, at 4:13:59
In reply to n acetyl l cysteine, posted by louise97 on January 23, 2010, at 0:20:49
> I would also like to suggest that anyone who is battling depression without success, get a low dose of NAC in the health food store and try it - build up your dose slowly and see if it helps.
>
> LouiseSo it also works with unipolar depression?
Posted by bleauberry on January 23, 2010, at 18:52:54
In reply to n acetyl l cysteine, posted by louise97 on January 23, 2010, at 0:20:49
First off, the things that meds or supplements do in our bodies are wide ranging, most of them unknown. That said, natural agents are much more broad spectrum multipurpose than single molecule pharmaceuticals. What we know of what NAC does is probably a 1/100th of what there is we don't know.
Basically it serves a major role in the body's detox mechanics. Long story, and I'm not expert enough on that topic. But it certainly ties into mood indirectly via enhancement of removing environmental and infectious toxins, and maybe in some direct manner as well. Many people at Candida forums, Lyme forums, and heavy metal forums find it essential in reviving the detox systems that have been severely depleted by these conditions. The result is...they feel better. More evidence that in depression, neurotransmitter deficiency is not the whole story.
Rather than shoot for some predetermined dose which is but an educated guess anyway, go with what you feel. Let your body tell you what is the right dose. Capsules and tabs can be customized to get exactly the dose you want. We are not limited to just whatever doses they give us in the bottle. If you think your dose is too aggressive, adjust it.
Posted by louise97 on January 23, 2010, at 23:43:49
In reply to Re: n acetyl l cysteine, posted by bleauberry on January 23, 2010, at 18:52:54
I have adjusted the dose way way down and have more or less found what feels good.
But I also feel tense and as friends describe it, a little too intense.
I'm wondering if anyone has had experience with NAC and Wellbutrin or with NAC and caffeine. I'm wondering which one might be make me "too intense" although not hypomanic.
I really don't know if it works with unipolar depression but my response was pretty quick - give it a try - apparently you can go up to at least 2000mg/day (according to my pdoc), but I crashed badly on that and only need 600 mg/day. Start slowly and see how you feel.
Louise
Posted by g_g_g_unit on January 24, 2010, at 4:31:41
In reply to Re: n acetyl l cysteine, posted by louise97 on January 23, 2010, at 23:43:49
>
> I'm wondering if anyone has had experience with NAC and Wellbutrin or with NAC and caffeine. I'm wondering which one might be make me "too intense" although not hypomanic.
>
>NAC will probably amplify the effects of Wellbutrin/caffeine
Posted by janejane on January 24, 2010, at 9:43:32
In reply to Re: n acetyl l cysteine, posted by bleauberry on January 23, 2010, at 18:52:54
Would NAC be contraindicated in someone who currently has amalgam fillings?
Posted by bleauberry on January 26, 2010, at 18:12:02
In reply to Re: n acetyl l cysteine » bleauberry, posted by janejane on January 24, 2010, at 9:43:32
> Would NAC be contraindicated in someone who currently has amalgam fillings?
Probably not, because it does not provide the power to chelate metals out of amalgams. A drug like DMSA has the power to actually leach mercury out of amalgams and that is not good.
It will however loosen up the mercury in storage, and bind some of the mercury freshly absorbed still circulating. If someone has amalgams and takes NAC, it would probably be wise to take other things to further bind the mercury all the way to excretion. I'm thinking things like chlorella, bentonite clay, activated charcoal. Any should be taken between meals.
By far though the only reasonable option is to get amalgams removed asap.
Posted by desolationrower on February 2, 2010, at 3:10:29
In reply to Re: n acetyl l cysteine, posted by bleauberry on January 26, 2010, at 18:12:02
seems like you might want to try dropping the wellbutrin
-d/r
Posted by Ron Hill on February 3, 2010, at 1:36:45
In reply to n acetyl l cysteine, posted by louise97 on January 23, 2010, at 0:20:49
Louise,
Your p-doc has been doing his/her homework. Good for him/her!
NAC increases glutathione, and low glutathione is thought to play a role in bipolar disorder and other p-disorders. Here is the abstract of a recent study in which the patients took 1g (1000 mg) two times a day:
http://www.journals.elsevierhealth.com/periodicals/bps/article/S0006-3223(08)00500-3/abstract
The following abstract discusses the possible relationship between glutathione and bipolar disorder:
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/ben/cmc/2009/00000016/00000023/art00003
Here is another abstract of an article discussing glutathione as a promising novel therapeutic target for various psychiatric disorders:
Glutathione does not cross the blood-brain barrier, so it cannot be taken directly. However, NAC does cross the blood-brain barrier, and once it does NAC increases glutathione levels via a chain of biochemical reactions.
-- Ron
dx: Bipolar II with ultra rapid cycling and mild OCPD
600 mg/day Trileptal
200 mg/day Lamictal
500 mg/day Keppra
90 mg/day Nardil
1.9 mg/day Deplin (taken with methyl B-12 and P-5-P)
Dark therapy via LowBlueLight glasses
Several vitamins and supplements-----------------------------
> Bipolar II - unable to take lithium due to stomach distress, unable to take lamictal because I become hypomanic at 50 mg. Wellbutrin above 75 mg also makes me hypomanic. Trying to treat depression.
>
> Taking 750 mg Depakote, 2 mg Klonopin, wellbutrin 75 mg and fish oil.
>
> My pdoc recently recommended NAC and it seems like a miracle. I have energy and am alert without becoming at all irritable. Although he recommended 1000mg to 2000mg, I'm finding I can only take 600 mg time release NAC per day.
>
> Even on this dose of 600 mg divided into two doses, I feel tense and unable to relax. Friends say I am very intense, but not angry or irritable.
>
> Might this be because I'm mixing NAC with Wellbutrin or because I wont give up my espresso?
>
> Has anyone else had similar reactions to NAC and how did you handle it?
>
> I would also like to suggest that anyone who is battling depression without success, get a low dose of NAC in the health food store and try it - build up your dose slowly and see if it helps.
>
> Louise
Posted by Lao Tzu on February 5, 2010, at 10:20:45
In reply to Re: n acetyl l cysteine » louise97, posted by Ron Hill on February 3, 2010, at 1:36:45
I am diagnosed bipolar/schizophrenic and everytime I tried NAC I had a worsening of depression, EXCEPT for a brief stint when I was also using Acetyl-L-Carnitine in addition to NAC. Then, NAC didn't really cause worsening of depression. In fact, it felt somewhat agreeable, but the problem I had with NAC is that it disturbed my sleep, especially at higher dosages. The most I could tolerate was about 300mg of NAC per day. So I said forget it. I gave up on it. Perhaps I didn't give it enough time. One seemingly legitimate website says that it usually takes "a long time" to see any therapeutic improvement, so you need to be patient. Some people have said they do great on it. Don't take my experience to be the general experience of everyone. My body either didn't need it, or maybe I was allergic to or it just didn't mix well with my meds and other supplements. I'm still thinking about giving it another trial run because scientists are studying it for schizophrenia as well as bipolar and have reported moderate improvement. That doesn't sound wonderful, MODERATE improvement, however. Personally, I get better results from using Vitamins E and C. But perhaps, it is a matter of time and being patient with a new substance you're putting into your body. It's akin to taking a new medication that you are unused to. At first, your body reacts to it as a foreign substance, but over time, the body adjusts as long as it isn't toxic and damaging.
Posted by mommyron on February 12, 2010, at 15:16:47
In reply to Re: n acetyl l cysteine, posted by bleauberry on January 23, 2010, at 18:52:54
I think that NAC, when used long term, can pull stored mercury (from tissues) and bring it across the blood-brain barrier.
This is the end of the thread.
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