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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lao Tzu on May 25, 2010, at 11:53:13
I'm discovering that I can tolerate certain B vitamins, but not others. I tend to have higher histamine levels, but the Risperdal controls that to some degree. Still, I have heard that vitamin B6 is very good for high histamine, and I seem to do well on it. However, I don't seem to do well on Niacin, B12, and folate for the most part. I can take these three once in a while, but not everyday. Purportedly, Niacin, B12, and folate have an effect on histamine levels such that they may tend to complicate my depression. On the other hand, vitamins B1, B6, and B2 tend to quell my depressive symptoms. Anyone had experience with using individual B vitamins and how you felt? I recently posted something on using Niacin with medication and how I felt that there might be an interaction between the two. I can't find any information that this is the case. It's just an assumption. Either there is an interaction between high dose Niacin and psychotropic medications or it is more a matter of Niacin affecting histamine levels. Niacin is usually recommended for people who have lower histamine levels rather than high histamine. Any experiences are welcome. Thank you.
Posted by jerryjohn on May 25, 2010, at 13:31:05
In reply to B vitamins and histamine levels, posted by Lao Tzu on May 25, 2010, at 11:53:13
B vitamins for me a something I need to be careful with as being anxious, or in fight or flight a lot, B's make me more so. Except for B-6, and B-12 which I need for being a vegan. The other's keep me edgy and self aware, not relaxed, but in the comment I just made, I'm trying Taurine now and it seems to be doing wonders for anxiety. Thanks
Posted by orthomole on May 25, 2010, at 13:38:32
In reply to B vitamins and histamine levels, posted by Lao Tzu on May 25, 2010, at 11:53:13
Last April, during my first suicidal spell, I took niacin at around 500 mg per day and it went away for about four and a half months.
This March, during the second, I took B6 at 1000 mg per day and it went away for about a month.
With the third coming and going by the day recently, I'm making moves to find out what to do to avert this one. Seeing an Orthomolecular doctor is the major one.
So far megadosing with the other Bs has had little effect. I'm still giving credit for some of the recovery to the recently started the coffee enemas, however.
Keep in mind that during all these times i was taking varying levels of other nutrients as well, but i credit the bulk of my recoveries to the vitamins i mentioned above.
Posted by Hombre on May 27, 2010, at 0:49:00
In reply to Re: B vitamins and histamine levels, posted by orthomole on May 25, 2010, at 13:38:32
Trytophan is converted to niacin in the body if it is lacking. Something like 60:1 tryptophan:niacin. Maybe having enough/too much niacin leads to increased serotonin production? I dunno.
Posted by Lao Tzu on May 27, 2010, at 14:26:10
In reply to Re: B vitamins and histamine levels, posted by Hombre on May 27, 2010, at 0:49:00
I read somewhere that Niacin can effect catecholamines like dopamine and norepinephrine, but you're probably talking about high doses to do this. Definitely, it would have an effect on tryptophan levels, and it also effects histamine as well. It's a multi-faceted supplement. So I don't know for sure on what level it would interact with my meds, which consist of an antipsychotic and antidepressant. Certainly, Niacin may be boosting the effect of these meds, which could explain the side effects I get from taking it. I think the effects on histamine complicate the depression, and may be the real reason that overall, I don't like this vitamin as part of my regimen. On the other hand, I think Vitamin B2 helps calm me and makes me feel less depressed without acting on histamine levels. I'll stick with B2.
Posted by Hombre on May 29, 2010, at 4:48:45
In reply to Re: B vitamins and histamine levels, posted by Lao Tzu on May 27, 2010, at 14:26:10
I think regardless of the mechanism, it definitely interacts with meds. I can't take high doses of niacin either. I do wonder, though, when I was not taking meds but using amino acids and vitamins (which didn't really work) if high dose niacin would have helped with the killer anxiety along with magnesium. Maybe someday I'll try that, but not likely anytime soon. The meds are working. Thank God for that.
My multivitamin includes a general B complex and I take Jarrow B-right which has a little bit of P5P and methyl-B12 along with the others in moderate amounts. It definitely does something along with making my urine fluorescent. I can handle extra B6 too in 100mg doses. I'm curious about choline and inositol, but I'm barely keeping up with the other supplements as it is.
Posted by Hombre on May 29, 2010, at 5:00:14
In reply to Re: B vitamins and histamine levels, posted by Lao Tzu on May 27, 2010, at 14:26:10
Hey Lao Tzu - did you ever try any ADs and AAPs that also work as antihistamines? I think it is interesting that I a)used to have terrible hay fever and cat allergies (probably still do) and b) I seem to respond to Remeron and Seroquel, both potent antihistamines. I also seem to roughly align with the whole undermethylated/high-histamine profile in terms of what vitamins seem to help or hurt.
Just curious.
Posted by Lao Tzu on May 29, 2010, at 11:32:09
In reply to Re: B vitamins and histamine levels, posted by Hombre on May 29, 2010, at 5:00:14
Yes, I had tried Remeron before with good results. I am currently on 4mg of Risperdal per day, which as you said, is a potent antihistamine. The Risperdal definitely addresses a high histamine state to some degree, and I seem to sleep better with this med, at least initially. After a couple of years on it, I had to take Benadryl at 50mg at bedtime to get to sleep because it is an H1 antagonist. With the Benadryl, I actually had more energy and lower depression the following day, which leads me to believe I am high histamine. However, the sleep-inducing effects of Benadryl wear off after a few nights of consistent dosing. So I turned to supplements that help lower histamine, which include methionine, magnesium, calcium, vitamin C, and B6. So far so good. I sleep better and the depression is better. One way I can tell that my histamine is decreasing is that frankly, my libido is much decreased. I know, too much information, right? High histamine people seem to have a very high libido, and that was the case for me even though I am on some heavy drugs that typically cause libido problems for the majority of people who take them, especially the antidepressants. I also tried Trazodone for sleep, which may affect histamine as well, and it made me feel better the following day, but it didn't put me to sleep. So I stopped taking it. When I was in the hospital years ago, I was put on Seroquel which helped with sleep, although I only took it for about 3 days and then off. I felt zonked being on that one. Believe it or not, Buspar helped me sleep better, but I'm not sure if it affects histamine or not. Probably not. Besides, my new psych doc won't prescribe it to me because flat out, he doesn't like it. I tried Abilify, Geodone, and Zyprexa too for short trials, which also might affect histamine levels, but Risperdal is the med that my psych doc is sticking with.
Posted by Lao Tzu on May 29, 2010, at 11:41:29
In reply to Re: B vitamins and histamine levels, posted by Hombre on May 29, 2010, at 5:00:14
Also, my seasonal allergies are non-existent now. I don't know if that is due to the meds or just growing out of them?? I believe there is an old drug called Diflucan that lowers histamine, but it has side effects that are bothersome. It is more prudent to stick with the antipsychotics and adding supplements to that. And, of course, using antihistamines like Claritin or Allegra. Many years ago, when my allergies were bad, I took a prescription drug called Seldane which really helped with the allergies. I don't think they use it anymore, but it really helped with high histamine.
Posted by Hombre on May 29, 2010, at 21:11:16
In reply to Re: B vitamins and histamine levels, posted by Lao Tzu on May 29, 2010, at 11:41:29
OK, it sounds like you've tried a lot of different things. The whole histamine connection is new to me and since it is considered "alternative" we have to do the experimenting ourselves.
I used to take Seldane too. I think it has some potentially dangerous interactions with other meds and they pulled it.
My allergies are relatively non-existent at this point too, but I moved away from the Midwest and all that pollen. Or maybe it's the meds. I stopped drinking milk several years ago because I heard it thickens mucus (and I think it definitely can create a sticky, damp phlegm type condition in the Spleen). That helped a bit.
Now that I think about it, my hay fever attacks would always bring on feelings of irritability, anger, clouded mind, stress, and anxiety. The clouded mind and inability to focus are certainly relevant to depression and bipolar. Interesting.
Regarding libido...also interesting. My libido is a bit squashed now. It was high before. I can't even begin to imagine the connection with histamine. Oh, with me it's never TMI. It's all for the sake of science, right?
Posted by Lao Tzu on June 9, 2010, at 9:46:10
In reply to Re: B vitamins and histamine levels, posted by Hombre on May 29, 2010, at 21:11:16
My libido is somewhat improved with using cinnamon bark extract. It is said cinnamon is an aphrodisiac. It certainly helps.
Posted by Kallista on November 5, 2012, at 7:01:01
In reply to B vitamins and histamine levels, posted by Lao Tzu on May 25, 2010, at 11:53:13
I know it has been a while since you started this thread, but I came across it while doing an internet search on histamine and vit. B5.
I did a lot of reading on histamine, as I`m very histamine intolerant. I do not have enough Diamine oxidase in my intestines to metabolize the histamine I ingest(have to use a supplement), plus I do have mastocytosis (too many mastcells that are constantly releasing histamine). Regarding the Folic acid and B 12, I learned that some people are under methylators. Try the methylated form of both. (Methyl Folate and Methylcobalomin)
Also, try everything in the book to get the histamine level down, like high doses of vit. C and Quercitin (vitacost has a combo I use called Advance C that has both), Vit. B 5 and B6 (important to use as p5p).
Try Singulair instead of Benadryl, it is much better in this case. If you think of Benadryl as the fire department, with Singulair the fire does not get started in the first place. Avoid foods containing histamine, among them Cinnamon and dried herbs in general. There is a lot of diet info on the internet, but the histamine avoidance diet is a bit complex, because there are so many foods that are naturally high in histamine, others start out low in histamine but the level goes up as they age. There are other biogenic amines as well, which require the same enzyme (DAO) to metabolize. Chocolate for instance has tyramine and phenylethylamin. These other amines (there are a few more) together with the histamine accumulate until they can be metabolized. Occasionally if the histamine level is high the copper level is too low. DO NOT USE A COPPER SUPPLEMENT WITHOUT HAVING THE LEVEL CHECKED FIRST and not without supervision. Zinc and copper need to be in balance. Last, but not least, it could be useful to get tested for mastocytosis. I get treated with Gastrocrom, and beetween diet, Gastrocrom and Singulair, and supplementation my life has been much improved
This is the end of the thread.
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