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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tomatheus on December 9, 2012, at 16:50:56
Hello all,
I just got out of the hospital a few days ago, and one of the things they found when they drew my blood was that my white blood cell count was high. I haven't had any infections that I know of in a long time, and some tests that the hospital did didn't find any evidence for any infections, yet every time I get my blood drawn it seems that one of the findings is that my white blood cells are high.
As some of you know, I have a long-standing disorder of fatigue and/or depression that's been going on for more than 12 years and has remained resistant to every form of treatment. My main symptoms are reduced energy, slow thinking, difficulty concentrating, and hypersomnia. I've also been experiencing some agitation and a tremor since taking and stopping lithium, as well as some cognitive impairment and psychotic symptoms that came on after I took aminoguanidine in combination with tranylcypromine and SAM-e.
I'm starting to wonder if the reason why my depressive symptoms have been so resistant to treatment might have to do with the fact that none of the treatments that I've tried directly affect (at least to my knowledge) white blood cells. I obviously can't say for sure that having elevated white blood cells necessarily causes my depressive symptoms, but I do wonder how I'd feel if my white blood cells were to be brought into the normal range. Does anyone here know of any treatments (supplements or otherwise) that can keep white blood cells low when used regularly? I can't seem to find anything on supplements that lower white blood cells, but if any of you have any thoughts on this that you think might help, I would like to hear them.
Thanks,
Tomatheus
Posted by SLS on December 9, 2012, at 22:58:24
In reply to What to do about elevated WBCs, posted by Tomatheus on December 9, 2012, at 16:50:56
Are you convinced that you are not experiencing a microbial infection?
I am wondering if minocycline is worth a try for you. It would address some types of infections, including Lyme, and act as an antidepressant at the same time.
- Scott
Posted by Tomatheus on December 10, 2012, at 13:30:36
In reply to Re: What to do about elevated WBCs » Tomatheus, posted by SLS on December 9, 2012, at 22:58:24
Hi Scott,
See below for my responses...
> Are you convinced that you are not experiencing a microbial infection?
No. Certainly a microbial infection is a possibility in my case. However, I tend to think that my depressive symptoms were brought on by the prolonged partial sleep deprivation that I subjected myself to just before the onset of my symptoms. Acute sleep deprivation has been shown to elevate white blood cells, and although it's not known what the long-term effects of prolonged partial sleep deprivation are on white blood cells, I tend to see the sleep deprivation as being the most likely explanation for my depressive symptoms. That's not to say that there aren't other possible explanations...
> I am wondering if minocycline is worth a try for you. It would address some types of infections, including Lyme, and act as an antidepressant at the same time.
I think that minocycline might be worth trying, assuming that I can get my psychiatrist to go along with the idea. It's a good suggestion, and I thank you for making it.
Tomatheus
Posted by SLS on December 10, 2012, at 14:53:32
In reply to Re: What to do about elevated WBCs » SLS, posted by Tomatheus on December 10, 2012, at 13:30:36
> Hi Scott,
>
> See below for my responses...
>
> > Are you convinced that you are not experiencing a microbial infection?
>
> No. Certainly a microbial infection is a possibility in my case. However, I tend to think that my depressive symptoms were brought on by the prolonged partial sleep deprivation that I subjected myself to just before the onset of my symptoms. Acute sleep deprivation has been shown to elevate white blood cells, and although it's not known what the long-term effects of prolonged partial sleep deprivation are on white blood cells, I tend to see the sleep deprivation as being the most likely explanation for my depressive symptoms. That's not to say that there aren't other possible explanations...
>
> > I am wondering if minocycline is worth a try for you. It would address some types of infections, including Lyme, and act as an antidepressant at the same time.
>
> I think that minocycline might be worth trying, assuming that I can get my psychiatrist to go along with the idea. It's a good suggestion, and I thank you for making it.
>
> Tomatheus
Stress, even in the absence of infection, can produce inflammatory reactions in the brain and elsewhere in the body. Increased cortisol secretion is partly responsible for this. Part of the inflammatory reaction is the stimulation of WBC production. I am guessing that sleep-deprivation is a type of stress that is capable of doing this. Minocycline exerts significant anti-inflammatory effects. You might not be looking to reduce WBC count so much as the inflammation that causes it.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on December 13, 2012, at 9:03:01
In reply to What to do about elevated WBCs, posted by Tomatheus on December 9, 2012, at 16:50:56
Was it a medical or psychiatric problem that you were in the hospital for? I did a quick google. And it can be quite harmless. Further follow up may alleviate further concern. Phillipa
http://www.zocdoc.com/answers/5277/what-causes-a-high-white-blood-cell-count
Posted by Tomatheus on December 13, 2012, at 10:47:44
In reply to Re: What to do about elevated WBCs » Tomatheus, posted by Phillipa on December 13, 2012, at 9:03:01
Phillipa,
I initially went into the hospital for a psychiatric problem, but because my pulse was really high (in addition to the fact that my white blood cell count was high), they kept me on a medical floor for a few days before transferring me to the psychiatric floor. The hospital's blood tests also found my troponin levels to be elevated initially, but those later fell.
I'm not quite convinced that having an elevated white blood cell count is as harmless as you say it is and that it isn't contributing to my chronic fatigue/depression in some way. White blood cells, from what I've read, cause pro-inflammatory cytokines and hydrogen peroxide to become elevated, and actually a lot of the supplements that have helped reduce the severity of my fatigue and other depressive symptoms temporarily reduce hydrogen peroxide levels. If I were asymptomatic, then I might be less concerned about the fact that my white blood cells are chronically elevated, but there's obviously something wrong with the way my body is functioning. It might be a coincidence that I have both a chronic fatigue and an elevated white blood cell count, but then again, it's also a possibility that those two things are related, and I want to explore that possibility in any way that I can.
Tomatheus
Posted by Phillipa on December 13, 2012, at 20:10:41
In reply to Re: What to do about elevated WBCs » Phillipa, posted by Tomatheus on December 13, 2012, at 10:47:44
Would you keep us posted on what you find out? Didn't know of CFS. Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on December 13, 2012, at 20:14:59
In reply to Re: What to do about elevated WBCs » Tomatheus, posted by Phillipa on December 13, 2012, at 20:10:41
You mentioned only fatique with depression. Sometimes the blood counts if shift to left can mean infection did they shift? Phillipa
Posted by Tomatheus on December 13, 2012, at 21:38:52
In reply to Re: What to do about elevated WBCs » Tomatheus, posted by Phillipa on December 13, 2012, at 20:10:41
Phillipa,
I didn't say that I have chronic fatigue syndrome. To qualify for that diagnosis, one has to meet a number of criteria that I don't meet. I do think, however, that I suffer from fatigue that is chronic, hence chronic fatigue. I frankly think that using the term "chronic fatigue" to describe my illness is more accurate than using the term "depression," as sadness isn't part of my clinical presentation. What I'm really trying to say, in other words, is that my illness comes down to energy more than anything else.
Tomatheus
Posted by Tomatheus on December 13, 2012, at 21:41:43
In reply to Re: What to do about elevated WBCs, posted by Phillipa on December 13, 2012, at 20:14:59
> You mentioned only fatique with depression. Sometimes the blood counts if shift to left can mean infection did they shift? Phillipa
I don't know. I was only told that my white blood cell count was high, and I get told that every time I get my blood drawn at the hospital. They did say at one point at the hospital that they couldn't find any sign of an infection, but I don't know how they determined that.
Tomatheus
Posted by Phillipa on December 13, 2012, at 23:16:28
In reply to Re: What to do about elevated WBCs » Phillipa, posted by Tomatheus on December 13, 2012, at 21:41:43
WBC's are divided into different categories. There Are basophils, neurophils, macrophages, and others. Let me see if can find types of WBC's. Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on December 13, 2012, at 23:21:40
In reply to Re: What to do about elevated WBCs » Phillipa, posted by Tomatheus on December 13, 2012, at 21:41:43
Maybe this will help Phillipa
http://www.healthline.com/galecontent/white-blood-cell-count-and-differential-1
Posted by SLS on December 14, 2012, at 8:53:51
In reply to What to do about elevated WBCs, posted by Tomatheus on December 9, 2012, at 16:50:56
Interesting:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20121130/msgs/1032810.html
- Scott
This is the end of the thread.
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