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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Toph on February 15, 2005, at 16:49:25
I'm not certain if this board is only about medication but I'll see if this is appropriate. I have bipolar 1 disease, a pretty bad case with serious psychotic mania and major depressive episodes. Symptoms are well controlled with lithium and a Lamictal supplement. There is no detectible history of anyone in any past generations having this disease, none of my four siblings have symptoms nor any of my eight nieces or nephews.
My greatest fear is that my 23-year old son or my 20-year old daughter may have the disease even though they are asymptomatc for now. They are becoming old enough that I am beginning to feel that they are out of the woods. But I wonder how others feel about passing mental illness on to their children. If a child inherits an illness do they resent their parents for it? Have you discussed your illness with them so they will know what to look for symptomatically or does this just needlessly worry them?
Toph, feeling like he's writing Dear Abby
Posted by saw on February 16, 2005, at 2:05:40
In reply to Bad Genes, posted by Toph on February 15, 2005, at 16:49:25
Hi Toph
I worry about this very much. My son is only 7 and already has ADHD. I have MDD and GAD. Now if my son were to inherit these bad genes from me, I may not worry too much. But if he inherits any of his sperm donor's (I simply cannot call him father) gene's, then I have trouble on my hands. My ex husband is a drug addict and had (probably still has) terrible criminal tendencies. In short, though I loved him (then), he was not a nice man.
I wouldn't want that for my son for all the world. Now my son is in a solid, stable family home with myself and my new husband and we are bringing up in the best way possible and he goes to a good school. So he has a solid foundation. I cannot help but worry that even though he has this, he will still turn to drugs or display criminal tendencies later in life. The only bad gene that I have picked up thus far is my son's tendency to be devious. (At the age of 7 I ask you!).
Because my son has seen so many changes in me over the last year and because it has become impossible for me to hide my illness from him, I intend to take him to a professional who can simply and easily describe my illness to him. I feel I owe him the truth. Poor thing always tries to comfort me when I am crying and going "ape" for no good reason.
I have heard my father was diagnosed many years ago as "manic depressive" but he never, ever displayed this to us and he never took medication. He died late last year of lupus disease of which I have since been tested for.
Wow - Toph - you got my fingers flying on this topic. Thank you so much for bringing it up.
Oh, and pooh - I haven't answered any of your questions now have I!
Sabrina
Posted by Laura Collins on February 16, 2005, at 9:17:10
In reply to Bad Genes, posted by Toph on February 15, 2005, at 16:49:25
I'm not sure we should call them "good" or "bad" genes!
The qualities, and the illnesses, that we pass along and receive are often also the source of creativity, empathy, intense concentration, spontaneity, enjoyment, and the ability to sense and avoid danger.
These qualities were adaptive, if you believe in Darwin, and therefore remained with us.
Yes, they get us into trouble as well - but without them we would be a dull bunch, and inflexible as well.
I say vive la difference! (And pass the latest Human Genome Project data.)
Laura Collins
Laura@eatingwithyouranorexic.com
Posted by Toph on February 16, 2005, at 9:27:20
In reply to Re: Bad Genes, posted by saw on February 16, 2005, at 2:05:40
Sabrina, I think you answered my questions for yourself, and beautifully too. Its always nice to mix a little honey with your lemon. Having a good mom is all the medicine a little boy needs. I hope the sperm whale stays away in the ocean. I was about to give you the "Mental Illness is a Gift" routine but Laura did it for me. Still, I fear for my son especially because he is so narcissitic, or wait, maybe I fear for my daughter, you have to watch out for those quiet ones, you know.
Nice to see you back posting again.
Toph
Posted by Toph on February 16, 2005, at 9:38:34
In reply to Re: Bad Genes, posted by Laura Collins on February 16, 2005, at 9:17:10
Hi Laura, nice to meet you. Its good to hear a positive spin on this to alleviate the fears. I lived vicariously through my son's baseball career (in high school its a career these days) and I couldn't have been more proud of my daughter going "down state" as a Pon P*m (how is P0m a swear word, Bob?) member. Its natural for someone to over-identify with their kids. One must be careful not to project one's fears of illness on to them, like Pigmalian in the classroom and all. As far a Darwin goes, I go ape thinking about my ex-wife's (I like to call her the sperm receiver) genes in my kids. Lets hope she has a really nice generation of genes somewhere.
Toph
Posted by Dinah on February 16, 2005, at 10:11:01
In reply to Bad Genes, posted by Toph on February 15, 2005, at 16:49:25
I am with Laura on this one. I have definitely passed on my emotional sensitivity to my son, and he's going to have some hard times ahead of him because of it. But I wouldn't trade him for a kid without that emotional sensitivity for the world.
Whenever he refuses to say he likes Cheerios better than Raisin Bran, even in the face of overwhelming evidence in the form of forlorn boxes of Raisin Bran scattered through the cupboard, because he doesn't want to hurt Raisin Bran's feelings, I smile and think how much I love him.
I worry more about passing on the diabetes or alchoholism that riddles my side of the family. But I don't blame my parents for those things.
Ok, I blame my father for the moles and those blasted skin tags. :)
Posted by Toph on February 16, 2005, at 11:02:39
In reply to Re: Different Genes, posted by Dinah on February 16, 2005, at 10:11:01
I love raisins too Dinah. I just wish I had had parents who would have noticed. Lucky boy you got there.
Toph
Posted by Waterlily on February 19, 2005, at 20:55:47
In reply to Bad Genes, posted by Toph on February 15, 2005, at 16:49:25
As the daughter of a depressed father who committed suicide, I don't feel any anger toward my dad for passing the gene on to me. I developed major depression after the birth of my second daughter and my oldest daughter has major depression. I feel terribly guilty for passing it on to her, even though when I had her, I had yet to experience major depression myself.
Posted by Toph on February 20, 2005, at 7:16:51
In reply to Re: Bad Genes, posted by Waterlily on February 19, 2005, at 20:55:47
> As the daughter of a depressed father who committed suicide, I don't feel any anger toward my dad for passing the gene on to me. I developed major depression after the birth of my second daughter and my oldest daughter has major depression. I feel terribly guilty for passing it on to her, even though when I had her, I had yet to experience major depression myself.
Please tell me Waterlily that had you known of your depression you would not have chosen to never have childen. Your father's gene might have been counteracted by your husband's gene pool as it may have been with your other children. There are always risks of passing on any illness inherited from past generations, for example, my mother had children knowing well that her father died of a heart attack when she was 18 and he 40; she in turn, has hypertension that is now controlled by blood pressure medication not available in the day of my grandfather. Depression, though potentially deadly, is not like inherited illnesses such as Huntington's Disease which is untreatable at this time.
I knew of my bipolar illness after my first born son's birth, but for some reason it never was a consideration in the subsequent birth of my daughter. Perhaps if one of them got sick I would feel guilt as it seems you do about your oldest daughter. Your feelings for her, suggest to me just how much you love her. I bet that because of that love, despite the struggles she shares with you and your father, that when she is effectively treated her exisitance is as much of a blessing for her as it is for you.
Thanks for sharing Waterlily.
Toph
Posted by AuntieMel on February 22, 2005, at 11:10:07
In reply to Re: Different Genes, posted by Dinah on February 16, 2005, at 10:11:01
When I was a kid I cried because someone put chalk dust on my cactus. I thought it was cruel to the plant and the plant was suffering.
I can relate to your son.
Posted by greenhornet on April 8, 2005, at 19:46:22
In reply to Bad Genes, posted by Toph on February 15, 2005, at 16:49:25
> I'm not certain if this board is only about medication but I'll see if this is appropriate. I have bipolar 1 disease, a pretty bad case with serious psychotic mania and major depressive episodes. Symptoms are well controlled with lithium and a Lamictal supplement. There is no detectible history of anyone in any past generations having this disease, none of my four siblings have symptoms nor any of my eight nieces or nephews.
>
> My greatest fear is that my 23-year old son or my 20-year old daughter may have the disease even though they are asymptomatc for now. They are becoming old enough that I am beginning to feel that they are out of the woods. But I wonder how others feel about passing mental illness on to their children. If a child inherits an illness do they resent their parents for it? Have you discussed your illness with them so they will know what to look for symptomatically or does this just needlessly worry them?
>
> Toph, feeling like he's writing Dear Abby--------------------------------------------
"One genetic marker of manic-depression was identified in a single extended Amish family. But this marker was not apparent in other families that displayed the disorder. Then, further evaluations placed several members of the family without the marker in the manic-depressive category. Another marker detected in several Israeli families was subjected to more detailed genetic analysis, and a number of subjects were switched between the marked and unmarked categories. Ultimately, those with and without the putative markers had similar rates of the disorder.Other candidates for a manic-depression gene will be put forward. But most researchers no longer believe a single gene is implicated, even within specific families. In fact, genetic research on manic-depression and schizophrenia has rekindled the recognition of the role of environment in emotional disorders. If distinct genetic patterns can't be tied to the disorders, then personal experiences are most likely crucial in their emergence."
No gene has ever been found that "causes mental illness"!
Predisposition? Maybe?
Learned behavior? Could be.Some interesting reading folks:
http://www.rethink.org/publications/pdfs/genetics1.pdfhttp://www.biopsychiatry.com/genesmental.htm
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1175/is_n4_v28/ai_17263034
Posted by Toph on April 18, 2005, at 13:07:42
In reply to Re: Bad Genes, posted by greenhornet on April 8, 2005, at 19:46:22
Posted by ramsea on July 26, 2005, at 3:38:17
In reply to Re: Bad Genes, posted by greenhornet on April 8, 2005, at 19:46:22
Good question. David J. Miklowitz, PhD, in his excellent over-all family and patient book, **The Bipolar Survival Guide**, writes on P.84,
"Some people with bipolar disorder examine their family pedigrees and see no evidence of any illness, mood or otherwise. This is unusual, but it does happen."
He suggests that an occasional alcoholic, eccentric, rageful, overstern and gloomy, and/or over-exhausted (and similar extreme descriptions) of a relative might indicate a mood disorder that wasn't recognized at the time. But nevertheless he says that experts "beleive there are other triggers for the onset of bipolar disorder, but we aren't certain what these are."
Possible causes, drug abuse, head injuries, neurological illness, difficult birth (with possible head injuries I guess), some viral diseases like MS or encephalitis, or an illness suffered by the mother of the patient in pregnancy.
It's not likely that bipolar disorder would be caused wholly by traumatic experience and environmental stressors, without also a predisposition genetically. In your case, for example, if you accept the genetic basis for most bipolar, one can imagine several generations experiencing circumstances of fair enough fortune that didn't quite add up to the onset of serious brain illness.
The main thing is sticking in the present and taking care of yourself. I have a long documented family history of mood disorders, but it doesn't mean my children have that great a chance of taking this torch. So far, they know all about this but seem to have somewhat more tendency to anxiety and some OCD traits--my son possible Asperger-- but nothing else out of the ordinary, and the other problems seem manageable without much ado.
It's good for kids to know what is up with a bipolar parent but without insinuating that they're going to be just like the parent. If it happens, they need to know it's admirable to seek help, treatment is positive for most people, they receive treatment and lead good, normal lives.
Children deserve upbeat information, no stigma, and no sense that illness is a sure thing--the chances are that they will not get bipolar disorder, it's not just genes but environment too, including their own unique psychology, physiology and ways of being.
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 26, 2005, at 22:44:18
In reply to Re: Bad Genes, posted by ramsea on July 26, 2005, at 3:38:17
> David J. Miklowitz, PhD, in his excellent over-all family and patient book, **The Bipolar Survival Guide**, writes on P.84...
I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
The first time anyone refers to a book, movie, or music without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she at least knows about it. It's just an option, though, and doesn't *have* to be used. If people *choose* not to use it, I'd be interested why not, but I'd like that redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html
Thanks!
Bob
Posted by Toph on November 4, 2005, at 9:47:22
In reply to Re: Bad Genes, posted by ramsea on July 26, 2005, at 3:38:17
I regret ramsea never thanking you for you thorough and thoughtful reply.
Posted by ramsea on November 4, 2005, at 10:18:12
In reply to Re: Bad Genes » ramsea, posted by Toph on November 4, 2005, at 9:47:22
This is the end of the thread.
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