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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by muffled on September 7, 2007, at 22:17:51
Bless my son.
I love him.
But sometimes I don't like him very much :-(
He is so mean to his sister, keeps calling her poo face despite my getting mad at him.
I said to him, your sister is nice, she just a kid, why you hate her so much? He says, cuz she's alive.
He is SUCH a jerk to her.
Also, on weekends, it doesn't seem to matter what activity I suggest, he says its dumb and bout has a fit and doesn't want to do it.
So I say, what DO you want to do? He say, I dunno.
He is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO selfish.
He is a spoiled brat.
He has never, since infancy, liked physical contact, or to be touched or held.
I try to play with him, and he laughs, but says stop, please.
He is so negative.
Is there something wrong with him?
He's 11.
M
Posted by muffled on September 7, 2007, at 22:57:14
In reply to Narcissitic son, posted by muffled on September 7, 2007, at 22:17:51
I re-read my post.
Its not that there's something wrong with HIM.
Its that I have messed him up.
I'm inconsistant and changeable.
In that important stage of life when he was younger, I would get out of control.
He may be somewhat retreating naturally, but I finished it off.
He would have liked, he NEEDED consistacy and schedualing, and I knew it, but was unable to DO it.
Sometimes I am MOM.
Sometimes I am like a teen.
Sometimes I cuss and swear.
Sometimes I crack down on stuff.
Sometimes I just let it go. Oftentimes.
Sometimes I act really nutty.
Sometimes I try and teach him bout stuff.
Sometimes I go too far.
Sometimes I don't go far enuf.
Sometimes I am engaged with my kids.
Sometimes I am so far away....they can't find me :-(
I am TRYING to do a good job. But I have screwed up SO much.
I think I have, I KNOW I have damaged my kids. And I STILL am, by not giving them what they need.
I do a little better all the time, but its SO SLOW, and they grow SO FAST.
And do I get a job so that I can send my kid(s) to T? Or do I just keep trying to be there for them as best I can? Getting involved at their school and all that.
My daughter gets afraid(she's 8), that when I go away, I might not come back :-(
Cuz I USED to run away sometimes when everything would get to be too much, and I suspect my hubby(whom I love) proly said some dumb things to the kids in anger at me running away. I would only usu stay away 1 night, or just come home late. But I guess with my hubbys comments and their disconnected Mom, it musta freaked them.
Everybody tries to say I am a good Mom, but I am NOT.
Don't b*llshit me.
I HAVE hurt my kids.
M
Posted by twinleaf on September 8, 2007, at 20:10:52
In reply to Dissociative Mom :-(, posted by muffled on September 7, 2007, at 22:57:14
You are doing your very best to get better yourself- and you ARE doing that. I guess every one of us wishes it were a faster process, but for us grown-ups, it does take years.
If you really feel that your child (or children) might benefit from therapy, you could investigate what is available, and what the range of costs might be. My general impression is that young children, who usually are treated with a combination of art/play therapy and a therapeutic relationship, can benefit a great deal with quite short courses of therapy. They are young enough to still be in close contact with feelings and experiences which adults have often closed themselves off from. Often two or three years of therapy makes a huge difference for them. One of the hardest things is not to blame yourself for anything that might be amiss. You have, and are, doing your very best; if you decide you do need some additional help for them, that could be all to the good for the long-term happiness of your family. You wouldn't be alone: a number of posters have had their children in therapy at the same time as they are- and seem to be very glad they did so.
Posted by TherapyGirl on September 8, 2007, at 21:13:21
In reply to Dissociative Mom :-(, posted by muffled on September 7, 2007, at 22:57:14
I don't agree that you've screwed up your kids, Muffly. Your son sounds like a million other 11 year olds that I've known or heard about.
And I know you love your kids and I think that love shows through even when you're having a hard time.
So give yourself a break, okay?
Posted by Happyflower 1 :-) on September 8, 2007, at 21:43:58
In reply to Re: Dissociative Mom :-( » muffled, posted by TherapyGirl on September 8, 2007, at 21:13:21
I agree with what the others have said. You are not a bad mom, you are not a perfect mom, but neither is anyone else. We all make mistakes, kids are resilent creatures. Part of accepting that their parents are not perfect is part of growing up.
The only advice is try to be consistant with disapline if you can. If your son says hurtful things, there needs to be a consquense for that. Either grounding or taking away something that is important to him, and do it everytime he is mean to his sister or disrespective to you. Eventally he will learn that it isn't acceptable behavior. He is at a very important age, my son is 11 too, and they seem to try out different things to see if they can get away with it.My son called her older sister (12) fat, hurt her feelings. First I grounded him from TV and computer for a week, then sent him to his room to think about his behavior and how he can improve it. Then I went in to talk to him about it, had him appolize to his sister, when he realized how hurtful he was.
If any of them hit each other, it is automatic grounding or whatever, no matter what. I take this very seriously. They know.Being a parent is so hard. We want the best for our kids and it is hard when we seem them acting out, we sometimes think it is something that we did to cause it. But I think all kids do stuff, it is part of being a kid, no matter how good of a parent you might be, they will still try stuff.
Muffy take care of youself. Kids are centered around their own world, it has nothing to do with you, in fact it is natural.
Posted by DAisym on September 8, 2007, at 23:10:42
In reply to Narcissitic son, posted by muffled on September 7, 2007, at 22:17:51
Have you had your son evaluated? There are some red flags here - doesn't like to be touched or held and never has. Calling his sister a poo-face certainly gets him attention, so I can see why he might do that. Try to let them work it out as much as possible, unless it gets physical. And don't forget to reward him for good behavior. Notice when he is nice to her.
Most 11 year olds do not want to participate in family activities much. They want to hang with dad, or their friends or entertain themselves. If he is doing this, no worries, as long as you keep an eye on who his friends are. If he is hanging around you, complaining about being bored, but turning down all attempts at entertainment, then I might try another tactic. I usually pull out the chore list when I'm getting this kind of behavior and it is amazing how quickly they find things to do.
Your inconsistent moods might have effected him but you did the best you could. Family therapy could be helpful or he might benefit from individual therapy. My son has seen a therapist since he was 11 for an anxiety disorder. I don't know what I'd do without him some weeks. Your therapist could probably recommend someone.
Kids are hard at this age. I think middle schoolers are way harder than high schoolers.
Posted by Dinah on September 8, 2007, at 23:23:13
In reply to Dissociative Mom :-(, posted by muffled on September 7, 2007, at 22:57:14
Muffled, we all find ways to screw up our kids somehow. I was absolutely determined not to make the same mistakes my mother did with me. I read every book, and parented by those books. My husband would say he could see me flipping through the pages in my mind, looking for the problem at hand.
So I managed to be the fake mom. The one pretending to be someone she wasn't. The mom always a step apart, never as real and connected as I wanted to be. I was consistent. I was fair and reasonable and calm. But all I ended up doing was making different mistakes.
I'm not sure if getting a job to pay for therapy for them is the best choice, if getting a job would add to your stress. Does your area have a parenting center or anything of that sort? You might want to check your phone book. Ours has one that not only has drop in times and mothers support groups, but also a couple of social workers on hand. They are more than happy to consult, and if longer term therapy is needed to recommend resources within the means of the family.
Other than that, all I can say is that love is a verb. Keep doing your best to love them, and teach them and care for them as best you can, and you'll have done as much as any of us can do.
And take care of yourself as best you can so that you can take care of them.
Will they end up in therapy one day talking about you? It's not unlikely. I know mine will. :)
About temperament... Perhaps I emphasize nature over nurture because of my experience with dogs. I've seen too many examples of dogs that never knew their father yet ended up having the most unusual and unexpected things in common. I always think that temperament is inborn but expression of temperament is influenced by the environment.
That makes it even more important to find out as much as you can about parenting a kid with your kid's basic temperament. There are some books out there. I think one may be called "The Challenging Child" and I'm sure there are others. Our parenting center was really helpful in that regard as well.
Ah heck. There I go with the books again.
Posted by Dinah on September 8, 2007, at 23:25:42
In reply to Re: Narcissitic son, posted by DAisym on September 8, 2007, at 23:10:42
Daisy, as usual you are right.
I don't suppose you know anything about puppies?
Posted by muffled on September 8, 2007, at 23:40:07
In reply to Re: Narcissitic son, posted by DAisym on September 8, 2007, at 23:10:42
>> If you really feel that your child (or children) might benefit from therapy, you could investigate what is available, and what the range of costs might be. My general impression is that young children, who usually are treated with a combination of art/play therapy and a therapeutic relationship, can benefit a great deal with quite short courses of therapy. They are young enough to still be in close contact with feelings and experiences which adults have often closed themselves off from. Often two or three years of therapy makes a huge difference for them. One of the hardest things is not to blame yourself for anything that might be amiss. You have, and are, doing your very best; if you decide you do need some additional help for them, that could be all to the good for the long-term happiness of your family. You wouldn't be alone: a number of posters have had their children in therapy at the same time as they are- and seem to be very glad they did so.
**yeah, cost is a factor :-(
I hope it could be shorter. I'm almost afraid to have my son assessed...>>And I know you love your kids and I think that love shows through even when you're having a hard time.
**I CLING to that thot, I really do...
>>agree with what the others have said. You are not a bad mom, you are not a perfect mom, but neither is anyone else. We all make mistakes, kids are resilent creatures. Part of accepting that their parents are not perfect is part of growing up.
**I guess, but I will not shy away from the fact that my mentalness has hurt them..
>The only advice is try to be consistant with disapline if you can.**A LARGE part of my problem is I am dissociative....and very inconsistant....I can't seem to do any better.
>when he realized how hurtful he was.**This is the frightening part to me....I don't know that my son understands this concept :-( I HAVE explained since he was young, in many ways , that words DO hurt...
>Being a parent is so hard. We want the best for our kids and it is hard when we seem them acting out, we sometimes think it is something that we did to cause it. But I think all kids do stuff, it is part of being a kid, no matter how good of a parent you might be, they will still try stuff.
Muffy take care of youself. Kids are centered around their own world, it has nothing to do with you, in fact it is natural.**Thanks for the support HF, but I beleive very strongly that as mothers we are HUGE in our childrens lives, HUGE, frighteningly so...
>>Have you had your son evaluated? There are some red flags here - doesn't like to be touched or held and never has. Calling his sister a poo-face certainly gets him attention, so I can see why he might do that. Try to let them work it out as much as possible, unless it gets physical. And don't forget to reward him for good behavior. Notice when he is nice to her.
**Yeah, he was an odd infant, colicky, but holding him often didn't soothe him. He didn't sleep well with us in same room. He would get overstimulated(so would his sis).He didn't smile for a LONG time. His first giggle was in his SLEEP. He had bad night terrors, he still has sleep disturbances(so does sis). I don't understand some of his behaviours and neither does he, I have tried talking to him about it.
>Most 11 year olds do not want to participate in family activities much. They want to hang with dad, or their friends or entertain themselves. If he is doing this, no worries, as long as you keep an eye on who his friends are. If he is hanging around you, complaining about being bored, but turning down all attempts at entertainment, then I might try another tactic. I usually pull out the chore list when I'm getting this kind of behavior and it is amazing how quickly they find things to do.**LOL!!!! I use this plot too!! Works a charm! My problem is I don't wish to sit at home all day and would like to have outings, but while out, he gets set off somehow( Isuspect to my lack of a 'plan') and gets very upset, into a rage, almost tears, that he doesn't want to eg, walk the dog around the park.....his behaviour ruins SO much fun for us.
>Your inconsistent moods might have effected him but you did the best you could. Family therapy could be helpful or he might benefit from individual therapy. My son has seen a therapist since he was 11 for an anxiety disorder. I don't know what I'd do without him some weeks. Your therapist could probably recommend someone.**I wonder at anxiety for my son. He so often wants to know 'what are we going to do today? But unfortunately that is ine of my worst failings...I fly by the seat of my pants, cuz I never quite know how I might be...
He has unexplained nausea, been nuerotested, ENT specialist etc. I am the WORST Mom for my child :-(
>Kids are hard at this age. I think middle schoolers are way harder than high schoolers.*yeah...I don't wanto be like my Mom who seemed to be blind to everything.
My other kid seems OK, if clingy...
I can't help but feel bad for my part in the development of my son :-( Hurts my heart so much. I KNOW I did my best, but it STILL hurts to know I hurt my beloved child :-(Thanks for replies guys.
M
Posted by muffled on September 8, 2007, at 23:42:18
In reply to Re: Narcissitic son, posted by muffled on September 8, 2007, at 23:40:07
Posted by muffled on September 8, 2007, at 23:58:54
In reply to Re: Dissociative Mom :-( » muffled, posted by Dinah on September 8, 2007, at 23:23:13
> Muffled, we all find ways to screw up our kids somehow. I was absolutely determined not to make the same mistakes my mother did with me. I read every book, and parented by those books. My husband would say he could see me flipping through the pages in my mind, looking for the problem at hand.
**yeah...just wished we didn't. Thats funny what your hubby said :-)
> So I managed to be the fake mom. The one pretending to be someone she wasn't. The mom always a step apart, never as real and connected as I wanted to be. I was consistent. I was fair and reasonable and calm. But all I ended up doing was making different mistakes.
*Sigh, yeah, I have times when I am a GREAT Mom...times...
Thats sad you felt you were a 'fake' Mom :-( Was that maybe in part due to dissociative tendancies on your part do you think? The fakeness feeling? The split btwn 'real' Dinah, and 'fake' Mom?
> I'm not sure if getting a job to pay for therapy for them is the best choice, if getting a job would add to your stress. Does your area have a parenting center or anything of that sort? You might want to check your phone book. Ours has one that not only has drop in times and mothers support groups, but also a couple of social workers on hand. They are more than happy to consult, and if longer term therapy is needed to recommend resources within the means of the family.*hmmm, thats a good thot, there proly is stuff out there.... I will look into that for sure, thanks for that idea.
Sigh, I struggle with the thot of emplyment. Having to be in a certain place at a certain time etc does stress me out. I also feel rather uncomfortable with my changeablness at times...I'm not honestly sure HOW? I come across and how noticable it actually is....but I think its kinda noticable :-(
> Other than that, all I can say is that love is a verb. Keep doing your best to love them, and teach them and care for them as best you can, and you'll have done as much as any of us can do.*I tell myself that.....
>
> And take care of yourself as best you can so that you can take care of them.**I tell myself that too, as I pay my T bills...
>
> Will they end up in therapy one day talking about you? It's not unlikely. I know mine will. :)*:-) Yeah, DEFINATELY. They know Mom goes to a counsellor to help me be a better Mom.
> About temperament... Perhaps I emphasize nature over nurture because of my experience with dogs. I've seen too many examples of dogs that never knew their father yet ended up having the most unusual and unexpected things in common. I always think that temperament is inborn but expression of temperament is influenced by the environment.
* I COMPLETELY agree with you on this. I beleive much of my dissociative tendancies came to me thru my Mother. I fear I have passed my crap onto my kids :-(
> That makes it even more important to find out as much as you can about parenting a kid with your kid's basic temperament. There are some books out there. I think one may be called "The Challenging Child" and I'm sure there are others. Our parenting center was really helpful in that regard as well.*Problem is I just can't seem to absorb info very well from books. I can read a book many times, and still not 'get' alot of the info. It just don't 'stick' in my brain.
> Ah heck. There I go with the books again.*:-) Luv ya Dinah.
I fear, as Daisy said, that my son likely has some deeper troubles, I keep hoping he will mature out of them, but he doesn't seem to be :-(
I want to at least be aware and do my best by him, and not let him slip thru the cracks cuz his 'issues' are less obvo, but in the long term, possibly quite detrimental to his future happiness....
Thanks for your reply.
Yes, it is VERY hard being a Mom.
But I wouldn't trade my kids for the world.
M
Posted by Happyflower 1 :-) on September 9, 2007, at 8:01:37
In reply to Re: Narcissitic son, posted by muffled on September 8, 2007, at 23:40:07
Muffy,
After reading more about what you have written about your son, I was wondering if he could have a mild form of being autistic.
ex- not knowing words can hurt others
not smiling for a long time
being overstimulated
likes things to be planned out
sister has some of the same problemsI could be completely wrong here, I am not an expert by no means, but some of this stuff sounds a lot like autism. I have a friend who's daughter has a mild form of it, and what you discribe of your son, sounds just like her daughter. But who know?
Posted by arora on September 9, 2007, at 9:24:54
In reply to Narcissitic son, posted by muffled on September 7, 2007, at 22:17:51
Muffled-
I'm not really qualified to give an opinion here, since I don't have kids... but some of my friends who have children seem to have some of the same problems!One mom I'm friends with has a daughter who is your son's age, and she's having similar struggles. I think 11 is a weird age- too old to play with toys really; but too young to do 'older' stuff... they are inbetween, and they don't like it! My friend's daughter is totally narcissistic, all she thinks about is clothes and her hair, and can be really prissy.
Instead of asking what he would like to do, why not make a list of possible choices- say a list of three activities, and he has to pick one. If he throws a fit, or is horrid to his sister then I agree he should loose some kind of privilege, like not getting to watch his favorite television program or something.
arora
Posted by muffled on September 11, 2007, at 17:33:56
In reply to Re: Narcissitic son, posted by arora on September 9, 2007, at 9:24:54
Posted by Happyflower 1 :-) on September 11, 2007, at 18:16:23
In reply to Thx HF, Aurora, we gonna talk bout it tomorow at T (nm), posted by muffled on September 11, 2007, at 17:33:56
Well don't forget to tell her I am a psycho! lol
I think it is great Muffy to talk to your T, I hope she can help ya! But I have a feeling your T will validate that you are a good mommy. You can be my mommy if you like, I need one! ;-)
Posted by Happyflower 1 :-) on September 12, 2007, at 7:38:03
In reply to Re: Thx HF, Aurora, we gonna talk bout it tomorow at T, posted by Happyflower 1 :-) on September 11, 2007, at 18:16:23
Posted by muffled on September 12, 2007, at 16:08:03
In reply to Good luck today at T (((((Muffy)))))) (nm), posted by Happyflower 1 :-) on September 12, 2007, at 7:38:03
posted on psychology, wasn't sure WHERE to post...
www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20070904/msgs/782493.html
Posted by 10derheart on September 16, 2007, at 0:21:11
In reply to Thanks!, posted by muffled on September 12, 2007, at 16:08:03
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20070904/msgs/782493.html
Posted by muffled on September 16, 2007, at 0:37:52
In reply to now it should be 'clickable' :-) » muffled, posted by 10derheart on September 16, 2007, at 0:21:11
This is the end of the thread.
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